Poll

What religion are you?

Islam
2 (11.8%)
Christianity
9 (52.9%)
Judaism
2 (11.8%)
Hinduism
0 (0%)
Buddhism
0 (0%)
Confuciousism
0 (0%)
Taoism
0 (0%)
Intelligent Design
0 (0%)
Atheism
4 (23.5%)

Total Members Voted: 15

Voting closed: September 26, 2005, 09:06:02 am

Author Topic: Religion  (Read 5242 times)

Burning Zeppelin

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« on: September 26, 2005, 09:06:02 am »
What religion are you?

I may put down Agnosticism if someone explains why. Also, if someone tells me how Scientology is different from Atheism, ill also put it up. Also i may put other religions up, if someone tells me how to edit the poll!

Oh, and by Intelligent Design i mean something that is not god, like aliens, cows or the Flying Spagghetti Monster! :P

Naz

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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2005, 09:07:23 am »
I'mma Catholic. >.>

Zaperking

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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2005, 09:40:56 am »
I'm Russian Orthadox Christian, but I don't really like listening to alot of the preaches in the bible... >.>

Zaperking

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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2005, 09:42:16 am »
Oh and the last two on the poll, aethism isn't a religion. It's a belief or your own concept.

Hadriel

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« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2005, 09:43:54 am »
Where's Pastafarianism?  Where's the Force?  This poll is biased.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2005, 09:44:26 am »
i realize atheism isnt a religion, but im trying to find out what us chrono compeniduminists (?) believe, or dont believe

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2005, 10:19:23 am »
You should have added to that poll the options "None" and "Other." And for another thing, some of the items on there, like Intelligent Design and Atheism, are not actually religions. I'm afraid I can't vote in your poll, but, for the record, I don't have a religion.

Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
I may put down Agnosticism if someone explains why.

I wrote an essay a couple of years ago that explains the differences between atheism and agnosticism, the pertinent section of which I have excerpted below. As far as -isms go, it's a theistic fallacy to equate these two. Please forgive the fact that, as it is a couple of years old, this essay could stand to use a bit of updating thanks to the wisdom and experiences I have since gleaned, but that, for lack of time, I am unable to effect this improvement properly. So I offer this excerpt to you, for your consideration, warts and all:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Clarifications on the Existence of God

~~~~~~
~~~To believe or to believe not, but never to not believe:

It is a tenet of logic that it is only possible to believe, and impossible to not believe. One may believe that cookies are good, but one may not disbelieve that cookies are good. Similarly, one may believe that cookies are not good, but one may not disbelieve that cookies are not good. In the general case, we may believe something to be true, and we may believe it to be untrue, but we may not disbelieve something to be true, and we may not disbelieve something to be untrue. Simply put, we may not disbelieve.

~~~~~~
~~~Definitions:

Let us clarify our definitions. Here I will grant that people can and do believe what they will and may define anything as they like. In this context, they may call themselves Christians, atheists, or anything else—regardless of what they define those terms to mean. Now, I don’t contest that right, and we’re all free to go on defining ourselves however we like. But if we start making definitions that fit our own arguments, then no argument is made, because the proof is a priori—that is, the proof is true by definition of the proof, such as the (true) statement that no bachelor is married.

Therefore, I will use only classically approved, accepted definitions. This way you will know for sure what you are agreeing and disagreeing with when you read my arguments.

With that point made, I will list the four major beliefs pertaining to the question of the existence and, if existence, the function of God. Please note that by “God” I refer to “G(g)od[dess](es),” which pertains to all deities and spiritual forces. Here are the four terms:

1. Theism – Belief in God who created and rules the universe
2. Deism – Belief in God who created the universe but does not rule it
3. Atheism – Belief that God does not exist
4. Agnosticism – Belief that neither the belief in God nor the belief in no God is supportable.

Please note that I have expressed all four beliefs in the positive sense of belief, as you will remember at the beginning of the essay I showed that it is improper to speak in terms of disbelief.

Also please note that these four beliefs are absolute; there is no strong and no weak flavor of any of them, and while of course there are many variations on them all, they always come down to the basic assertions listed above.

Also please note that Theism and Deism cannot be overlapped, as it is the case that if God truly does exist, God’s relationship with the universe is extremely important, by virtue of the definition of God.

~~~~~~
~~~Agnostics or Atheists?

I can’t speak for the atheists, because I do not know any very well, but I have yet to meet an agnostic who is comfortable with being called an atheist. Anyone who tries to label the two groups together is guilty of misunderstanding one or both of them. I will point out some key differences between agnostics and atheists:

Agnostics believe that a belief on the subject of God is unproven. Different agnostics have this belief for different reasons:

1. Some agnostics believe that the neither the existence nor the nonexistence of God can ever be proven at all.
2. Some agnostics believe that neither the existence nor the nonexistence of God can be proven at the present time, but remain additionally agnostic as to whether that insolvability itself will remain true in the future.
3. Some agnostics do not want to make an opinion, because they are unconvinced by all theistic/deistic/atheistic arguments.
4. Some agnostics do not want to make an opinion, because they do not respect the subject matter.
5. Finally, anyone who is not a theist, deist, or atheist by default, is an agnostic, because these types of agnostics have never even thought of God, and therefore have never formed any opinion of any sort on the matter.

I should note that some agnostics want very strongly for there to be a God, while others want very strongly for there not to be, while others still do not want to think about it at all. But in all cases, they will not assert that God exists, and they will not assert that God does not exist.

Atheists believe that God does not exist. Different atheists too have different reasons for this belief:

1. Some atheists believe that the lack of scientifically verifiable evidence in support of God is sufficient to conclude that there is no God.
2. Some atheists believe that there is sufficient proof of the function and nature of the universe so that there is no room for God to exist without disrupting physical law.
3. Some atheists try to establish that God is a real entity whose nonexistence is therefore provable. (In other words, “God” itself may be its own contradiction, just like a married bachelor. These arguments tackle specific theistic and deistic models of God, one at a time.)
4. Some atheists have faith that God does not exist, similar to the theistic and deistic faiths that God really does exist, based on life experiences and personal interpretations of the world.

Please note that “there is no God” is different from “God does not exist.” The former holds that God cannot exist because the idea itself is nonsense. The latter holds that God can exist but, for whatever reasons, does not.

~~~~~~
~~~

[SNIP]

~~~~~~
~~~The Burden of Proof:

By phrasing all terminology in terms of a belief (rather than disbelief), the burden of proof for the existence or nonexistence of God falls onto everyone except the agnostics who make no claim—that is, the ones who either do not care about the subject or do not know to care about the subject. Everyone else—the theists, deists, atheists, and the other agnostics—have to support their claims. And since every one of these four groups is mutually exclusive, we can rest assured that the thorny issue of personal religious or nonreligious beliefs will color the world for a good while to come.

~~~~~~
~~~

[SNIP]

“To the degree that you impose your values upon others, they cease to be values and instead become judgments.”
~ The Effectiveness Institute

V_Translanka

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« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2005, 11:04:05 am »
An agnostic could not mind being called an atheist as long as they're also possibly called everything else at the same time :wink:

I'm agnostic. I dunno what happened at the beginning of the universe, doubt if I (or anybody else) ever will and I dunno how much it'd change anything even if I (or anybody else) did. (Some) Religions sure have some nice ideas though.

Sentenal

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« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2005, 12:44:57 pm »
Protestant Christian.

Eriol

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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2005, 01:42:51 pm »
wth is intelligent design doing there?  That supposed to be like agnostic or something?

I would can ID, put agnostic there, and add one for "other".

And if you really wanna be an ass, put "Secular Humanism" on there.  That's basically what atheists are calling themselves these days.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2005, 01:56:27 pm »
Quote from: Eriol
wth is intelligent design doing there?  That supposed to be like agnostic or something?

The two are unrelated.

Quote from: Eriol
And if you really wanna be an ass, put "Secular Humanism" on there.  That's basically what atheists are calling themselves these days.

That may be what Bill O'Reilly is calling atheists these days, but real secular humanists can and do belong to any number of religions. It's more of an ideology than a religion, really. In any case, ease up on the acerbic misrepresentation...maybe switch to decaf or something, eh? =P

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2005, 06:35:50 pm »
Confessional Lutheran.

Man, I truly did not know that there were that many Christians on these forums. For truth, I would have thought them to be in the minority, maybe 30% of the whole.

AuraTwilight

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« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2005, 08:06:25 pm »
Pfft, where's Shinto? You remember Confuscianism but you don't even put up the religion it splintered off of? Arse.

and I hear that pagan religions are really gaining numbers. Put that up too.

Silvercry

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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2005, 08:30:08 pm »
Wiccan. Solitary Practitioner.  Though sometimes I wonder if the world would be better off without religions.

Per an old rant of mine:

Quote
Would the world be better off if there were no religions?

Think about it. What have the religions of the world accomplished from the dawn of human history aside from bloodshed? Some ancient pagans practiced human sacrifices. Ancient Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews and worked then to death. Ancient Romans feed Christians to the lions for sport, then crucified Jesus, the single most important man in human history (whether you believe he’s the Messiah or not, there is no doubting his significance from a historical standpoint). A countless number of people lost their lives during The Crusades for no discernable reason. The Spanish Inquisition was little more that state and church approved mass murder. Mid-wives and healers were burned alive or hung during the Salem Witch trials. Six million men, women, and children lost their lives under the flag of the Nazi Germany. Islamic Jihad brought down the World Trade Center, and even today we are locked in The Global War On Terrorism.

These are just the things I can remember from high school history class. I am sure there are countless other instances I neglected to name. Religion has killed billions since mankind dragged itself out of the ooze, but I have yet to see it save a single one.

I submit we would be better off without it.

What do you think?


Boy, I must have been pissed that day.

Sentenal

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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2005, 09:31:09 pm »
It is VERY biased to say Religion does nothing but create bloodshed, when it does just as much good.