Author Topic: Moon Discrepancy  (Read 14946 times)

Zaperking

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2006, 06:59:42 pm »
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Don't make her seem so useful
Maybe because she is. Even the plot dictates that Harle's mission was very important to the Dragon Gods, and Harle, whether she knew what she was doing or not, was doing it on behalf of the planet.

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She's a component. She's needed to complete the Dragon God. This is fact. It's also fact that alternate endings in the Chrono Series don't have to take into account other facts. For example, the Frog marrying Lenne ending.
Like I already said, her mission was to remove the flame from Chronopolis to free her brothers and sisters. If Harle has their power and they desperately need it, then they absorbed her for that reason. But as I said, the ending already shows us that she does not need to be absorbed in order for them to do their thing.
Also, giving me an example such as the Frog marrying Leene ending is kind of lame because that was either a comic relief ending or it could be taken literally, as CT shows us what happens when one meddles with time.



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Yes, she'd still have her skills. They'd just have different names, I guess. The Dragon God's astral bodies would be all seven.
We don't know that for a fact, if the moon did not exist, then there could not be a "Dark Moon Dragon". The Dragons are based off the elements. Since the 7th element is the CC, Harle is only symbolic for it. Had the Moon not been there, and an element in her techniques, she would have been the "Dragon" of something else.

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Harle has never demonstrated empathizing with the planet. And if she was, then she wouldn't be trying to get the Frozen Flame because it's like...THE LAST thing the Planet wants. But yea, her behavior is heavily influenced by Schala's DNA.
Schala has nothing to do with Harle's personality. DNA does not determine your personality. It does, though, determine hereditary mental and physical illnesses. Downs syndrome, Auetism. ETC. Kid is nothing like Schala except in body. Schala doesn't go around killing people, stealing, wearing skimpy little dresses and talking in slang. And Harle speaks french, is psychotically happy and is a part of the planet in the end.
You can't blame Harle for anything. She's doing what her brothers and sisters are telling her to do. And what their view is is that of the planet's. Harle cried on the ship for what was about to happen. She was crying that she would be freeing the dragons, at the expense of Serge. She even shed a tear for humanity in that ending where the humans all perished. But then again, shes also one of those characters that lives by the saying "The ends justify the means".

Nobody could still disprove the fact that Harle is powerful and was only toying with Serge because we all know she needs him in Chronopolis :D

Legend of the Past

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2006, 06:22:26 am »

Like I already said, her mission was to remove the flame from Chronopolis to free her brothers and sisters. If Harle has their power and they desperately need it, then they absorbed her for that reason. But as I said, the ending already shows us that she does not need to be absorbed in order for them to do their thing.

The Dragons wouldn't need Serge-Lynx took care of accessing the Flame for them. The manipulation could of ended in Another's Fort Dragonia, really, but instead they pushed him to go on to Chronopolis. If Harle was supposed to get the Flame, and by staying with Dark Serge she could access it, then her mission should of ended right there. Instead, the Dragons chose Serge as their liberator. That's what the game says. You can take up any complaints you have towards Kato and\or the translators of the game.

I agree, however, that Harle isn't a part of the Dragon God-There was a Dragon God before her and he uses only six Elements. If he had Harle merged with him he would of certainly used a seventh. But he doesn't need to-Harle isn't present in the merge, nor is she a needed part, because, like I said before, the Dragon God was there even BEFORE Harle.

Zaperking

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2006, 10:41:11 am »
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The Dragons wouldn't need Serge-Lynx took care of accessing the Flame for them. The manipulation could of ended in Another's Fort Dragonia, really, but instead they pushed him to go on to Chronopolis. If Harle was supposed to get the Flame, and by staying with Dark Serge she could access it, then her mission should of ended right there. Instead, the Dragons chose Serge as their liberator. That's what the game says. You can take up any complaints you have towards Kato and\or the translators of the game.
Well, I know what you mean. What I was trying to say is that not only did the Dragons need the flame gone, but Chronopolis aswell. Even if Chronopolis has no flame, well - Chronopolis hasn't been able to use it for over 10 years anyway. Harle probably knew that if she stole the flame in the middle of that, Dark Serge would do something to her, and hello, it's Chronopolis. Also, I guess another part was for Kid to look into the flame, or maybe not. Either way, Harle appeared, and stole the flame when FATE was dead, as that would be the safest time to do so.

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I agree, however, that Harle isn't a part of the Dragon God-There was a Dragon God before her and he uses only six Elements. If he had Harle merged with him he would of certainly used a seventh. But he doesn't need to-Harle isn't present in the merge, nor is she a needed part, because, like I said before, the Dragon God was there even BEFORE Harle.
I'm with you. Except that i've learned to face that Harle was absorbed plot wise. But I was trying to say that Harle is not necessarily needed for it. Them retreaving the flame was the main thing that probably cast them back into existance, giving them a physical body back. Harle may have resorted back into being absorbed by them because she knew that she could not be forgiven for her betrayal to Serge and such. But otherwise, in the other ending, Harle did not merge because it was not needed, and she hadn't really used Serge. She did, after all keep saying that Serge was who he was in whatever body he was in. You know, the whole "If you're in Lynx's body, you're Lynx" etc.
But anyway, Harle is a dragon in the end. But like you said, she was created after the Dragon God had already existed. She in herself is a dragon god (full combined version) as she is the combination of all 6.

Hey, did anything think that Harle is black innate because of subtraction? You know, how colours when mixed up make black because all the colours get absorbed and none get transmitted? If we say that the innates are like paint, and Harle is all of them combined, then she would be a black innate and the "Dark Moon" would exist for that reason? O.o But the Chrono Cross is made by addition where light is added, absorbed and transmitted.

AuraTwilight

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2006, 11:24:19 am »
Harle wasn't exactly an element, but they did invest some of their power to create her, and probably have to re-absorb her to be at their fullest potential.

Chrono'99

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2006, 12:53:38 pm »
Hey, did anything think that Harle is black innate because of subtraction?
I agree with this sentence, especially because it's frigging never stated anywhere that Harle is a "combination" of any Dragon God. She's just something the Dragons created one night.

nightmare975

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2006, 11:27:16 pm »
So would that make Harle the anti-Chrono Cross?

AuraTwilight

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2006, 02:31:31 am »
No, she represents the Chrono Cross.

Chrono'99

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2006, 08:35:58 am »
I always thought she was totally unrelated to the Chrono Cross. She's just a black innate created by 6 Dragon Gods from Schala's DNA. The Chrono Cross on the other hand is something which "has the power to draw on the sounds of the 6 colored Elements to produce a healing harmony".

AuraTwilight

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2006, 03:03:17 pm »
She's a black Innate, but she symbolically represents the Chrono Cross. It doesn't mean she has it's power.

Chrono'99

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2006, 05:49:02 am »
She's a black Innate
Fact.

but she symbolically represents the Chrono Cross. It doesn't mean she has it's power.
Assumption.

Lee

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2006, 12:52:20 pm »
The fact that the Chrono Cross is the 7th Element (or called so) and that Harle is the 7th Dragon doesn't mean they are related.

Zaperking

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2006, 01:15:33 pm »
She does symbolically represent the Chrono Cross. The Chrono Cross is made of the Dragon Tear, an artifact of the Dragon God. The Chrono Cross is made from a tear of love and a tear of hate, and the Frozen Flame is a thing that represents hate and love. Harle was created with hate and love, and she is the 7th dragon, just as the Chrono Cross is the 7th element. Also, I just realised something. The 7th element is the lost element. Belthasar stated that the black moon was "a moon once lost" but like the Chrono Cross, had returned into existance. So there may be a connection there too.

Anyway, the game is very symbolic and metaphoric, and Harle is a symbolism for the CC.

AuraTwilight

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2006, 03:24:20 pm »
Dammit, Zaper! Stop making sense! I'm not used to it!

Chrono'99

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2006, 05:37:01 pm »
She does symbolically represent the Chrono Cross. The Chrono Cross is made of the Dragon Tear, an artifact of the Dragon God. The Chrono Cross is made from a tear of love and a tear of hate, and the Frozen Flame is a thing that represents hate and love. Harle was created with hate and love, and she is the 7th dragon, just as the Chrono Cross is the 7th element. Also, I just realised something. The 7th element is the lost element. Belthasar stated that the black moon was "a moon once lost" but like the Chrono Cross, had returned into existance. So there may be a connection there too.

Anyway, the game is very symbolic and metaphoric, and Harle is a symbolism for the CC.
She simply doesn't. The Chrono Cross is made from two Dragon Tears, two dimensional versions of the same objet. Is Harle anything like that? Moreover, the Dragon Tear is not "an artifact of the Dragon God", it's an artifact crafted by the Dragonians. It *might* have been produced by the Dragon God, but we don't know it; like the rest of what you said, it's just an assumption. Innate-wise, Harle is just Black.

Actually, I think the symbolic relations that you point out make her appear more like the contrary of the CC, like something which is related but related only in opposed terms. Perhaps Harle was born as an "anti-Chrono Cross" because the Dragon Gods are corrupted by the Time Devourer... Perhaps it would have been able to create a Chrono Cross-innate Dragon if it wasn't corrupted. Well, maybe the original Dragon God was Chrono Cross-innate. But the "Time Devourer" Dragon God is not (it can have all 6 innate colors but not all at the same time), and Harle is not and is almost like its nemesis.

Zaperking

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Re: Moon Discrepancy
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2006, 11:14:52 pm »
Harle's creation still represents the CC. 6 elements went into making her. 6 elements are what make up the Chrono Cross. Harle may not possess the Chrono Cross' power, but she is still a metaphor for the same thing.