Author Topic: Did crono die when porre attacked  (Read 37592 times)

Aitrus

  • Guru of Life Emeritus
  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 197
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2003, 01:12:42 am »
Quote from: Guardian_of_Ages
The only event that changed between the end of CT and CC concerned El Nido, not Guardia, and so if they are dead in one dimension, they are certainly dead in the other.


That's non sequiter logic for multiple dimensions.  Whenever dimensions split, they are totally seperate, not just locally.  For example, in one dimension Porre invaded, while in the other they didn't.  Even if the non-invasion was the result of their defeat at the hands of the Dragoons, then that in and of itself would still alter Zenan.  In both cases, the Zenan continent is inevitably altered, and the events in one do not neccessarily happen in the other.

When universes split, they are completly seperate and isolated, with neither one having any bearing on the other.  In other words, if Crono died in one world, it wouldn't mean he did in the other as well.  It doesn't mean he didn't, but it is not required that he did.  And that doesn't even begin to answer the question of whether he did in the resulting unified world is a totally different one.

Daniel Krispin

  • Guest
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2003, 01:23:27 am »
Ah, point taken. It has been a year and a half since I last played CC, and I am writing from memory and forum discussions. I had forgotten about that invasion. That makes it certain that the events that are different in both dimension are not simply isolated to El Nido, but affect Zenan as well. Very well then, my comments only hold true for the home dimension, to which the ghosts belong. It is stated, however, that this is the "true" dimension, but considering Serge is not erased from time at the end (as he should be dead in the "true" dimension), I do not know what consequenses this has for time as a whole. I still think that Crono's death was the intent, but in light of what you have said it can lead to countless possibilities in CB, if such a game should eventually take shape; and intent hardly shapes truth.
And it is nice to see that I was mistaken, and that my posts do not herald the ending of a thread.

Chrono'99

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3605
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2003, 06:35:04 am »
(sorry you can delete this)

Radical Dreamer

  • Porrean (+50)
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Radical Dreamer
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2005, 12:09:23 pm »
Quote from: flea plus
I was wondering because on other websites i was on it said that he died when porre attacked in 1005. plus if he was alive i think that he would have stoped lynx from killing lucca.Inless I missed something in chrono cross


They have died.
Actually, I belive that Lynx might have something to do with the whole event.




Quote from: flea plus

On gamefaqs massage board it said that magus was a guy named magil in it.


This part is correct.
Magil is Magus. ^_^
There were many clues in the game to suggest that.
The fact that Magil/Magus recognized the Masamune in Viper Manor, that he knew it's owner, his stories about Zeal, the fact that he's able to use magic and the fact that he's able to "hover", etc.

Anyway, Magil *is* Magus.



Quote from: flea plus

It also said that magus is guile in chrono cross.Do you know if that is true


Ok. This is wrong.
It is based on some truth though. ^_^
As you all probably know, Chrono Cross plot was somewhat based on Radical Dreamers'.

So the initial idea was the character of Magus will appear in 'Chrono Cross' just like in 'Radical Dreamers'.
But then, in a much later in development stage,  it was realized that the whole mystic/speical/mysterious (you name it ;) )  Magil (Magus) - Kid relationship is very faint due to the massive amount of PCs (playable characters) unlike 'Radical Dreamers' in which the game focuses in the adventures of Serge, Kid and Magil.

Therefore it was decided to CHANGE the character and name him Guile in order to preserve the special relationship between Kid/Schala and Magus that was introduced in 'Radical Dreamers'.
Guile was NOT intended to be Magus.
Magil was, and that's why so many people think the character of Guile resembels Magus (mostly in appearance and name).
But he simply isn't Magus.


Quote from: flea plus

Also is radical dreamers connected to chrono cross or trigger


I would have to say 'Chrono Trigger'.
While the events of 'Chrono Trigger' and 'Radical Dreamers' happen in the same universe but in a DIFFRENT TIME period,
'Radical Dreamers' and 'Chrono Cross' both occur in DIFFRENT DIMENSIONS.



Quote from: ZeaLitY

Contrary to popular wishes, Guile is not Magus in Chrono Cross. This was explicitly denied by Masato Kato, the writer of the Chrono series.


Exactly. ^_^




Quote from: Chrono'99

Kid wants to find the Frozen Flame because Lucca wanted to put it on a "childhood friend"'s tomb...
mmh I don't know how did Lucca knew about the Flame existence, but I think she wanted to use it to ressurect (once again) Crono.


That's exactly what she wanted to do....
But she have been perished by Lynx herself before she managed to just that.

Sentenal

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2005, 03:50:56 pm »
It sounds like your saying that the Radical Dreamers Dimension is the same as Another World, the original dimension where Serge died.  That is no the case.  Of the dimensions we know of they are:  Reptite Dimension, Home World, Another World, Radical Dreamers.  I never played RD, but if Crono is dead there, it does not mean he is dead in the other dimensions.  It seems to me like he would have had to be alive until at least 1015ad.  Crono's caption under his picture reads, "Crono is cool!"  Tell me that doesn't sound like something a little kid would say.  Lucca certainly wouldn't put something like that.  If Crono were dead, don't you think the caption would read something more sad, like "I miss Crono", or something like that?

I also don't think hes a resistance fighter.  If word got out to the Porre military that Crono, prince of Guardia, was making contact with that orphage, they would have done something about that.  Then there's Lucca.  We find a recipit (sp?) in Lucca's orphange, basically showing us Lucca had been selling technology to Porre.  If Crono was fighting them, or Crono had been slain by them, why would Lucca continue doing bussiness with them.

The there is Lucca's letter.

And Lynx was created after the Fall of Guardia.

SilentMartyr

  • Magical Dreamer (+1250)
  • *
  • Posts: 1373
    • View Profile
    • http://www.chronotrigger.info
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2005, 04:08:22 pm »
Its so hard to say who lived, I think out of everyone Lucca did die. There is just way too much stuff leaning towards that to say otherwise. Crono and Marle are 50/50, it really goes down to how the monarchy system works. If they were in charge they most likely died, but if King Guardia was still at the helm I would say they lived.

The pictures though... it makes me think that there was a second adventure by the group. Or at least they got back together again.

Sentenal

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2005, 04:11:02 pm »
Those pictures should at least warrant their survival until 1015ad.

Eggith Cyrene

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 126
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2005, 05:45:29 pm »
What i dont get is How could crono be killed? HE was the strongest person on the planet for Yoda's sake! He destroyed lavos. I dont understand how he could lose in a duel (assuming that shadow was him in the PSX ending)


I personally dont think he was killed but im still wondering how the hell Guardia Fell. Crono NAturally wouldent let that happen. And i would love to know how porre raised the greatest army ever known in order to conquer guardia (then theres the whole thing of motive for doing so)

The whole Situration is very frustrating.

Sentenal

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2005, 05:55:20 pm »
I think the idea that Crono is dead comes from the fact that he would be there, and those "ghost children" in CC.

Eggith Cyrene

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 126
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2005, 06:11:56 pm »
Well yeah naturally But theres in the alternate dimension and all so.....?


But when i played thru CC i didnt realize that and freaked the hell out.

Did Crono Die? Theres evidence for both sides so whos to say really.

But Guardia DID fall. The question how the F did that go down?

Sentenal

  • Errare Explorer (+1500)
  • *
  • Posts: 1948
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2005, 06:17:12 pm »
There are different theorys.  As for motivation, I got no idea.  Some say Dalton took over.  Maybe they invaded for trade purposes, due to the Guardia-Medina ferry.  I dunno on that one.

But as for the ablitity, they became a colonial power in the timeline where El Nido was created.  Some have said that the Elements they found there would drastically increase their army's combat ablity.  Or maybe they just increased it the old fashioned way.

Shadow_Dragon

  • Chronopolitan (+300)
  • *
  • Posts: 329
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2005, 12:18:08 am »
I have 2 theories as to why Crono wouldn't be able to defend Gaurdia:
1) Assuming that Porre did get elements, and elements were technically from the planet while magic, the source of most of Crono's power, indirectly came from Lavos, couldn't the elements neutralize Crono's overhwelming power?
2) I don't remember (correct me if i'm wrong) fighting any humans in CT, so maybe Crono is against violence in the war sense

Eggith Cyrene

  • Guardian (+100)
  • *
  • Posts: 126
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2005, 01:32:30 am »
Quote from: Shadow_Dragon

2) I don't remember (correct me if i'm wrong) fighting any humans in CT, so maybe Crono is against violence in the war sense


MAgus,Queen Zeal,Dalton,Flea(ok that may be reaching),Cyrus(although he was a ghost at the time)


And i think crono would defend his kingdom He Was the prince of Guardia at that point. For crono to have moral objection to defending against an (most likely) Unjustified attack on his kingdom is ludicrious

Chrono'99

  • Guru of Reason Emeritus
  • God of War (+3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3605
    • View Profile
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2005, 08:33:11 am »
Crono slaughtered Dalton's soldiers.

And we don't really know if the Porreans were the only bad guys. Perhaps some rogues took over Guardia and Crono had to help Porre attack them. Perhaps the only evil guy was the man who stole the Masamune, and both Guardia and Porre had to fight him. Since the battle was in Northern Zenan, the kingdom of Guardia was the one who fell anyway, and Porre just assumed control.

It's crazy but I say that because Lucca used to trade machines with Porre (there's a receipt in the orphanage) and the Porrean girl Luccia is her friend. So the situation was probably more complicated than just kind Guardia vs. evil Porre.

Daniel Krispin

  • Guest
Did crono die when porre attacked
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2005, 03:57:50 pm »
Quote from: Eggith Cyrene
What i dont get is How could crono be killed? HE was the strongest person on the planet for Yoda's sake! He destroyed lavos. I dont understand how he could lose in a duel (assuming that shadow was him in the PSX ending)


I personally dont think he was killed but im still wondering how the hell Guardia Fell. Crono NAturally wouldent let that happen. And i would love to know how porre raised the greatest army ever known in order to conquer guardia (then theres the whole thing of motive for doing so)

The whole Situration is very frustrating.

Easily. One man cannot victor against an entire army, no matter what his strength. You cannot think of this as a video game with Crono having 9999 health, or whatever else may be. I am certain he could slay a dozen, or a hundred, but overwhelmed he could indeed be slain. All heroes, even the great ones of legend, die. Herakles, Achilleus, Agamemnon, Beowulf, King Arthur... all of these were mighty warriors in their day, some unparalleled. King Arthur was the mightiest of knights, for example. Agamemnon was a mighty warrior, too, but he was killed by his very own wife upon returning home to Mycenae. The point of the matter is that strength does not preclude the invincibility of a hero. There are two lines from fantasy that I know of that best represent this; the first is from the Fall of Gondolin and, though I do not remember the precise words, it is something to the effect that 'the few cannot stand against the many'; the second is what Pippin says of Boromir in Return of the King: 'the mightiest man may be slain by one arrow, and Boromir was pierced by many.' Boromir was the hero of Gondor, and that is no mean kingdom: it is the last stronghold of old Numenor, and its returning king was last of that race. And looking further back, other heroes of that vein in Tolkien's writings share similar fates. Isildur, who cut the Ruling Ring from the hand of Sauron himself, was slain: he was killed by orcs as he fled from the disaster at the Gladden fields. This is probably the best example of what I am saying. Isildur performed a feat similar to what Crono did: he defeated one of the great evils of his world. Yet he even so died to the arrows of a mean soldier of the enemy. Fate has its way with men, even with heroes, after all, and the mighty are not apart from chance and destiny. That is how Crono may die: by mischance, or by an ill arrow, or by being thronged about by too many foes. He is mighty, but not immortal.

As for Guardia falling... it had stood for near on a thousand years. It's time had come. Name me an empire that has stood unconquered for such a span! Rome, maybe? But that is only from its earliest days upon the Palatine hill, to the very last days of the Emperor Romulus - 1200 years. Egypt was longlived, but not in such a long span. There were some 26 dynsties in its reign, broken into three kingdoms, seperated by periods of foreign rule. Likewise the Babylonians, the Assyrians, and Hittites... every kingdom falls under its own weight in time. It is a law of our world, and any world in which mankind would exist. The might of Porre, also, is not so surprising. Remember that the size of Guardia is shown as but a part representative of the whole (after all, such a small town would never amount for a kingdom.) Likewise Porre would perhaps be shown as this. It's speed of conquest is also not to be wondered at. It is likely that in the time of the Mystic conquests, they were held as allies, like the Latin league against the enemies of Rome in Italy, in the time of the Old Republic of Rome. In time, however, Rome turned upon its one-time allies, and one by one, they became part of Rome proper. Carthage arose to challenge them twice: first in the mid 200s BC, then again at the turn of 200 under the masterful general Hannibal. Yet both times Rome emerged victorious, finally destroying Carthage in the third war some fifty years later - more of a destruction than true war, however. The eyes of Rome then turned to other places. Consuls, with the power of Imperium, were given command of armies to conquer in areas: Julius Caesar, one of these, was given charge of the armies in Gaul, and once having defeated that army, crossed the Rubicon into Italy, marching on Rome herself. Thus began the end of the Republic and, with the ascension of Caesar Agustus, the Roman Empire. But this all was step by step. To the peope of the time, it would have seemed that Rome slowly took greater and greater powers. Here and there some tried to stop them, unsuccessfully. Some yet remained allies in certain wars, but later became enemies. It may well be that Guardia was one of these sorts of kingdoms. Porre likely marched on many places, and Guardia kept herself safe - and pacifistic as was her wont - until the eyes of Porre turned on her. Then there were none to come to her aid, and she fell. That would easily and realistically account for the seeming swiftness of Porre's rise: they had already begun their conquests a hundred years before, but seemed yet friendly because they were the allies of Guardia.