Was Lavos Trying to Shaft Itself?!

[Daggart]

I have always consitered Lavos to be sentient, however I do have to disagree with this argument.

For one thing, insentient beings can't produce sentient offspring. Clearly, for humans to gain intelligence from something like the Frozen Flame would mean that the Frozen Flame is itself sentient, and if the Frozen Flame is sentient, the source from which it came, Lavos, would have to be sentient, too.

It seems to me as though this argument discounts entirely the theory of evolution, which requires sentience to spring from insentience. (Note: I'm not trying to start a science vs religion debate here on the validity of evolution. However, it is a reocurring theme in the chrono series.)

[Zaperking]

Well, Chimps, fish, micro-bionic organism still have sentience, probably. Most lower creatures just don't have self awareness. I'm pretty sure Lavos was very self aware, since he treated to his own needs.

[Tonjevic]

By your own argument, cockeroaches, fish, crabs, everything else and sundry, are all self aware because they all treat to thier own needs.

I think what you are trying to get at is good though, in that Lavos is aware of his own past, present and future - as well as his thought.

I believe that there is no cold, ard fact supporting this, but the simple fact that Lavos can emote on a higher psychic and mental level indicates that he is capable of these things.

[Radical_Dreamer]

Microorganisms are not sentient, and evolution doesn't require sentience springing from insentience, or life arising from nonliving matter.

[AuraTwilight]

I agree with Daggart. Even if you still make the assumption, how about the Black Monolith from Space Odyssey? It has no intelligence, it is merely a tool, but it made man intelligent. Or even still, Red Kryptonite. Red Kryptonite, on one occassion, made Superman super intelligent, even though the Kryptonite piece was completely inanimate. Why can't the Frozen Flame have produced a similar radiation?

[The Shadow]

I think that the argument of lavos being sentient is valid on both sides.  If Lavos is sentient, it would explaint why it crased into earth in the first place (thus to manipulate or farm life on earth, mentioned by Robo if you go to battle lavos's secound shell with him in the party (paraphrase, "it appears to contain the DNA of every living organism that has ever lived")).  I have always interpreted Lavos as a form of a parasite, a creature that asorbs the lifeforces of other beings to increase it's strength.  At the same time, we have to look at lavos as biological creation; even IF it is self-aware and knows of it's surroundings, its true purpose from a scientific prespective is, well, to create more lavos(s)(or however thats pluralized).  When Lavos imapacts earth in Chrono Trigger, it changes the enviroment so its food (aka, LIFEFORCES, as mention, I believe, by queen zeal right before she activates the Mammoth machine and deystroys her kingdom) will become dominant (more lifeforce equals more power for Lavos, thus a greater chance for it's offspring to survive).  When Lavos deystroys earth in 1999 AD, it makes it possible for it's spawn to (apparently) survive on the surface (so they can leave earth and infect more planets, which I believe is brought up either by one of the three Magi or by the computer where the Epoch is found)... I hope I haven't bored anyone to tears out there with this, mainly since I have had only the chance to play Chrono Trigger and not Chrono Cross  

[AuraTwilight]

Thanks for rehashing what we already knew about Lavos.

[Theicedragon]

I have somewhat of a twist that may interest you guys.  Everyone is basing the Lavos is sentient/Lavos is not sentient theory on one thing that we don't know about.  We don't know if he was sentient his whole life.  He came from gods know where.  What if he was not sentient, hurling through space, and then he came into contact with something that made him sentient, like the frozen flame.  What if the frozen flame wasn't a natural part of him.  We know that Lavos absorbs the DNA of other organisms to survive and have offspring.  But what if he absorbed something before he came to crono's planet. Which makes him sentient and changes his course.  Sort of like the One Ring from LOTR.  The frozen flame might not even have looked like that at first but then changed to look like a part of his shell.
      I say this because I refuse to think that Lavos was the only one of his kind to hurl through space.  What if he was mutated from what we think is a part of him which is not.  I mean his whole shell is "supposedly made up of these things.   I find it ironic that the impact only knocked one of them loose, unless it wanted to come loose.  If the FF is sentient, wouldn't all of them on his back be sentient?  Why wouldn't more than 1 break off?  My theory is that the one that broke off wans't a part of his shell to begin with.  It was along for the ride, making itself look like a part of his shell.  Lavos could very well have been stupid until he came into contact with the "frozen flame".

[Zaperking]

I think the translation was wrong. It shouldn't have been "a part of his shell". If anything it all, it may be an organ, or his heart, or like a part of his brain or whatever. It may even be a bit.

It being a part of his shell does not necessarily mean that there are more of those on his shell. The game implies that it was special. And it couldn't have made him smarter, since it's something that is inferior to him. The thing itself is a link to him, for others who cannot see him. Like the pentalir or whatever those orbs for communication were in LoTR.

And in turn, the Flame itself has a constant feed of energy from Lavos. This method was used (most likely) in the Mammon Machine, as the flame would drain it, and the dreamstone would harness/channal and amplify it. The reason why Lavos woke up was that the Machine made the Flame suck to much energy, which was un natural for it, and the dreamstone amplified the sucking up action, which made Lavos realise that something was wrong, and caused him to destroy Zeal.