The Abortion Thread Ex Ultra!

[Radical_Dreamer]

And it would be a lie to say I would've been better off if I'd not paid the price for fucking up. We learn best by suffering consequences of our actions, not by getting away with them freely. Sometimes we get lucky, but we can't live a life depending on luck to get us out of holes we dig ourselves into. Life just ain't that easy. Sure we want help when we're in those situations, but do we deserve it? If not, then we shouldn't get it. Sounds cruel, but I apply this even to myself.

The trouble with this is that you are bringing a child in to the world who's only purpose for existing is to be a "consequence" for their parents either fucking up, or simply having bad luck (condoms don't work 100% of the time).

What kind of miserable existance is that?
Kid: "Mommy, daddy, why did you want to have a kid?"
Parent: "Well, that's the thing, we didn't want you, never did. We just kept you around to serve as a constant reminder that we fucked up, and then didn't even deal with that fuck up."

It's one thing to take responsibility for your actions, and it is a comendable thing, it is the right thing to do. But to hold another person responsible for your actions, which you are doing if you are having a child you do not want and/or lack the resources to raise, is reprehensible and cowardly.

[Mystik3eb]

You're suggesting that parents not do abortion, because they have to "suffer" through having a child to learn their lesson?

What kind of miserable existance is that?
Kid: "Mommy, daddy, why did you want to have a kid?"
Parent: "Well, that's the thing, we didn't want you, never did. We just kept you around to serve as a constant reminder that we fucked up, and then didn't even deal with that fuck up."

The parents weren't willing to go through raising a child? My answer to both of you: Adoption. Yes yes, before you go haywire on your take on adoption, Ex, I know what your stance is, but that's still my answer.

Still, I'm not completely against abortion early on in the development stages, like...as soon as they can find out they're pregnant, but if they wait until it's been, like, 4-6 months into pregnancy...I'm not in favor of that. However, I'd rather they donated the fetus for stem-cell research rather than just kill it and dump it. If you're not gonna give the baby to someone else in the form of a baby, give it to scientists in the form of a fetus so at least SOMEONE benefits from all of it.

And BTW, I agree with Gray's big long entry.

[Exodus]

The parents weren't willing to go through raising a child? My answer to both of you: Adoption. Yes yes, before you go haywire on your take on adoption, Ex, I know what your stance is, but that's still my answer.

My stance? No, my good sir, I've offered facts as to why it isn't a good option.

You make it all sound soooo easy. I'd like to see you deal with this shit like I had to. Then come back to me.

[Radical_Dreamer]

Still, I'm not completely against abortion early on in the development stages, like...as soon as they can find out they're pregnant, but if they wait until it's been, like, 4-6 months into pregnancy...I'm not in favor of that. However, I'd rather they donated the fetus for stem-cell research rather than just kill it and dump it. If you're not gonna give the baby to someone else in the form of a baby, give it to scientists in the form of a fetus so at least SOMEONE benefits from all of it.

Fetuses aren't the problem with stem cell research. Funding is. Whenever an infertile couple goes in to have an in vitro fertilization or similar procedure, instead of taking nature's hint and adopting, more fetuses (fetii?) are created than are implanted. There are hundreds, if not thousands of fetuses lying unused in labs all across the country, just waiting for scientists to have the budget to get to work on them.

And while I can't put a date on when I'd prefer abortions to occur by, because of my own ignorance of the subject, I'd much prefer that abortions occur before the brain, and therefore, possibly sentience, arise.

[GrayLensman]

There are hundreds, if not thousands of fetuses lying unused in labs all across the country, just waiting for scientists to have the budget to get to work on them.

Technically, those are embryos, not fetuses.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Just for a different point of view, what about the fact that the mother is NOT a clean book, and that the child never had a chance at life s/he couldve had? And that the child has never commited evil? Plus, I think that, me talking from a pro abortionist view, that if a woman wants to have an abortion a second time, and both times were just because then that is horrendously wrong.

[SilentMartyr]

You make it look like the majority in the way you worded it. and putting possibly in there takes all the wind out of the point. Hell I could possibly become religious and then start killing people who are not believers in my religion.

I find it disturbing that you don't seem aware of the thousands of deaths that occur each month because of drunk driving.

I am perfectly aware, hell I have friends who were caught and prosecuted. I know more about it first hand then you do. But we are digressing.

Adoption is not the best desicion. Again first hand experience, I know adopted kids and they hated thier foster parents because they treated them poorly. These people will adopt even though they are not financialy secure enough to raise the number of kids they have. Thus these kids live lives unfulfilled because they never got the chances that a normal family had. The adoption process needs to be much stricter than it is.

[Radical_Dreamer]

There are hundreds, if not thousands of fetuses lying unused in labs all across the country, just waiting for scientists to have the budget to get to work on them.

Technically, those are embryos, not fetuses.

Point noted. Either way, they are filled with stem cells, and never going to have a change at life.

[Burning Zeppelin]

What makes a plant or bacterium more alive then a fetus? Reproduction? A 2 month old baby cant even do that

[Radical_Dreamer]

What makes a plant or bacterium more alive then a fetus? Reproduction? A 2 month old baby cant even do that

I'm not sure what you are getting at. They are all alive. Are you going to say we shouldn't kill bacteria? Impossible; countless bacteria are destroyed as a part of our digestive proccesses. By being alive, we make other things die.

[Mystik3eb]

I'm not sure what you are getting at. They are all alive. Are you going to say we shouldn't kill bacteria? Impossible; countless bacteria are destroyed as a part of our digestive proccesses. By being alive, we make other things die.

That's another interesting point you rise, continuing the departure from the topic of this thread (which is probably a relief to many). I'm under the firm belief that as the superior race, we have all rights to take advantage of the other life forms on this planet, so long as we're civil and humane about it. I would say the same even if we were the inferior race to another. That's the way nature works, and I'm ok with that.

The humane part is key, though.

[Radical_Dreamer]

I'm not sure what you are getting at. They are all alive. Are you going to say we shouldn't kill bacteria? Impossible; countless bacteria are destroyed as a part of our digestive proccesses. By being alive, we make other things die.

That's another interesting point you rise, continuing the departure from the topic of this thread (which is probably a relief to many). I'm under the firm belief that as the superior race, we have all rights to take advantage of the other life forms on this planet, so long as we're civil and humane about it. I would say the same even if we were the inferior race to another. That's the way nature works, and I'm ok with that.

The humane part is key, though.

I noticed your said "humane" but not "responsibly". That troubles me. We, as consumers, are required to destroy other lifeforms in order to insure our survival. We have the right to seek out sustinance, just as any other creature does, and we have the right to defend ourselves from those looking to make meals out of us, just as any creature does. The trouble is, if we are arbitrary in our slaughter, even if it is "civil" and "humane", we will overburden the ecosystem, drive the species we depend upon (either directly or indirectly) to extinction, and then we all starve to death. Bad. We need to be responsible, both in our rates of reproduction and of harvesting of other lifeforms.

[Leebot]

Okay, I've been lurking here for a while, hoping someone would get to this point, but no one has (possibly because of the lack of actual women here). The fact is, Abortion is not easy. Even if you put aside pricing concerns, it's something unnatural being done to the body, and it causes a fair bit of its own suffering. Mystik, if you're insistant that women take responsibility for becoming pregnant, going through an abortion is enough (ironically, I don't see you proposing that men go through the same pain in order to ensure equality).

[Mystik3eb]

I noticed your said "humane" but not "responsibly". That troubles me. We, as consumers, are required to destroy other lifeforms in order to insure our survival. We have the right to seek out sustinance, just as any other creature does, and we have the right to defend ourselves from those looking to make meals out of us, just as any creature does. The trouble is, if we are arbitrary in our slaughter, even if it is "civil" and "humane", we will overburden the ecosystem, drive the species we depend upon (either directly or indirectly) to extinction, and then we all starve to death. Bad. We need to be responsible, both in our rates of reproduction and of harvesting of other lifeforms.

You're right. Responsibly, of course. How could I forget that? I must be tired...

I suppose this thread has been milked dry. I would say as a final note on my part that if there does become in existence an abortion law that allows abortion in all states, I will vote for it ONLY IF there's a deadline for abortion to be done early on in the pregnancy. Well, and the obvious requirement to allow abortion at any time in case of rape and/or endangerment of the mother.

[DeweyisOverrated]

Here's my quick opinion on abortion:

It's morally wrong, but having a law against it makes no sense in society.