Author Topic: There an easy answer to this?  (Read 7767 times)

razor's edge

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There an easy answer to this?
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2005, 12:18:44 am »
Time Traveler's Immunity is simply this--someone who travels through time is from then on immune to changes that affect their own life--for example...let's say some guy named Jim goes back in time 10 years and kills the 10-years-younger Jim. Then Jim goes back to his own time. To everyone there, Jim has been dead for 10 years, but Jim still has all of his memories, including the ones from the past 10 years, even though to everyone else Jim has been dead for 10 years.

In the same way, Marle goes to the past with Crono & Co, and something they do changes the future in a way where Schala's pendant is not passed down the Guardia line--in 1000 AD, no one recognizes Marle's pendant except for Crono & Co and Melchior.

That's why, for the sealed boxes, if you open them in 1000 AD, and then go back to 600 AD and open them again, there's no paradox, Crono & Co keep all of their equipment, no matter what they do to the timeline.

saridon

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There an easy answer to this?
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2005, 05:25:54 am »
oh i see thnx

ZeaLitY

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There an easy answer to this?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2006, 02:27:24 am »
Questions Raised

1. If Schala gave Kid her pendant before sending her to 1004 A.D., it means she kept her pendant with her after the Ocean Palace incident. How then would the pendant exist on the outside world and come into possession of the Guardia royal family, eventually ending up with Marle, who used it in Chrono Trigger?

2. How was it originally passed down anyway before Crono started time traveling?

~

1. Pendant Discrepancy

Inquiry

If Schala gave Kid her pendant before sending her to 1004 A.D., it means she kept her pendant with her after the Ocean Palace incident. How then would the pendant exist on the outside world and come into possession of the Guardia royal family, eventually ending up with Marle, who used it in Chrono Trigger? How was it originally passed down anyway before Crono started time traveling? Would its absence potentially undo Chrono Trigger, preempting Marle from reacting with the Telepod to enter 600 A.D. or charge it up at the Mammon Machine to get around Zeal?

Theories

Immune Pendant

ZeaLitY

TTI and Time Bastard dictate that regardless of what Marle or Crono were doing at the Millennial Fair in 1000 A.D., they would appear in 600 A.D. and their versions in 1000 A.D. would disappear at the original time of departure. Additionally, all matter going with them, such as Crono's wood sword or Marle's pendant, would be subject to these laws and would appear in 600 A.D. and be removed from the present. Under these theories, the pendant would materialize with Marle in 600 A.D. when she first time traveled and was thought to be Queen Leene, circumventing the need for the pendant to be physically passed down among the royal family for 13,000 years. For the issue of Time Bastard applying to the pendant itself, please see Misconceptions.

Misconceptions

Time Bastard's Application to the Pendant

Some debate that the Immune Pendant theory is flawed because the pendant on Kid would be subject to Time Bastard. That is, since the pendant would go to 1004 A.D. with Kid from the Darkness Beyond Time, it would "pass" Marle's instances of time traveling, which take precedence. However, it is important to consider that Time Bastard operates on personal time. Let's examine the pendant's personal history.

Chrono Trigger

Pendant is created in 12000 B.C.; used thirteen thousand years later.

Chrono Cross

Pendant is created in 12000 B.C.; used almost instantly afterwards.

Thirteen thousand years would have to pass until the pendant disappeared due to Marle's original time traveling with it. It would disappear roughly in 14004 A.D. to appear in 600 A.D. with Marle. The same case can be applied to the Vests and Mails in Chrono Trigger. Crono can use both the vest and mail because he has traveled through time with the mail before retrieving the vest. After four hundred years, the vest would presumably be subject to Time Bastard and disappear. Crono is not violating the conservation of energy or time in this manner; he is merely using the same item in two different stages of its personal history.

2. How was the pendant originally passed down?

Inquiry

The Guardia royal family passed down Schala's pendant as an heirloom for all of its history. However, in Magus's flashback, Schala is clearly seen trapped in the Ocean Palace Incident after the three Gurus and Janus are gated to various eras. How did the Pendant originally make it to the outside world?

Theories

Pendant Power

ZeaLitY

During Crono's time traveling, Schala used the Pendant's power to transport his two teammates and Magus out of the Ocean Palace. Now, provided that the Pendant retained the same amount of power in the Lavos Timeline in the original incident, she would have been able to transport three other individuals out. She may have simply used the Pendant to remove herself, Queen Zeal, and perhaps another person out of the palace. This would allow the Pendant to exist on the outside world and find its way to Last Village; additionally, this would prevent Queen Zeal from staying behind and raising the palace as the Black Omen.

ZeaLitY

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There an easy answer to this?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2006, 02:56:16 am »
I'm going to list the Pendant Paradox under Principles of Timelines and Dimensions, since there actually isn't a problem there under Chrono themes. Otherwise, it'd be listed with the rest of the genuine problems.

Zaperking

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There an easy answer to this?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2006, 08:03:31 am »
Just a note on the pendant. Doesn't Marle's exist regardless since it is from another timeline, hence it is not the same one as the one that Schala had in essence. It'd be like the dimension split. Two of the same being can exist without either dissapearing, even thought they are from the same timeline.

And now I get TTI :P But it's pretty easy obviously if the Time Traveller has their own timeline erased and goes onto a new one, hence they're immune anyway Oo

AuraTwilight

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There an easy answer to this?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2006, 08:51:22 pm »
No, Zaper, it isn't like a dimensional split because there's no spatial change in the Timeline. Time Bastard takes care of that.