Author Topic: Continuity of Radical Dreamers  (Read 10631 times)

GrayLensman

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« on: December 28, 2003, 10:55:35 pm »
This has been troubling me lately.  Originally, Radical Dreamers was a sequel to Chrono Trigger, but Crono Cross removes the events of RD from official continuity.  Based on the computer archives in Chronopolis, it appears that Radical Dreamers takes place in a separate universe from Chrono Trigger and Cross.  My question is: does this still mean that Radical Dreamers is a Chrono Trigger sequel?  Is the past timeline of Radical Dreamers the same as Chrono Trigger, or does RD simply refer to some things which also happened to appear in CT?

knuck

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2003, 11:20:50 pm »
RD was never a "official" sequel to CT. Just a side history.

ZeaLitY

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2003, 11:30:12 pm »
Interesting; I cannot locate an official statement from Square on what the game actually is. I could only find an obscure reference from a statement allegedly made by M. Kato.

Quote from: Information
According to director Masato Kato, Chrono Cross is actually a remake of Radical Dreamers into a full game, more in the style of an updated Chrono Trigger sequel.


I might easily believe that it is a sequel if it were not for the mention of several regions and a place called 'Regionna.' Cross honored Trigger by featuring main areas instead of distant lands, for we only heard of Guardia and Porre. Since Dreamers is so damnably vague, making inferences is moreover a test in creativity.

It nonetheless resolves Trigger as Cross did by revealing Schala's history. This alone my qualify it as a sequel.

Chrono'99

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2003, 06:56:07 am »
I might not remember well, but isn't Serge able to use magic in RD ?
...weird...

Radical Dreamer

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Re: Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2005, 12:35:32 pm »
Quote from: GrayLensman
RD was never a "official" sequel to CT. Just a side history.


WRONG! ;p

'Radical Dreamer' is as much as 'sequel' as 'Chrono Cross' (if not more because it was released BEFORE 'Chrono Cross' was even thought of).
'Radical Dreamers' was the inspiration for the making of 'Chrono Cross'.



Quote from: ZeaLitY

According to director Masato Kato, Chrono Cross is actually a remake of Radical Dreamers into a full game, more in the style of an updated Chrono Trigger sequel.


Thank you for the quote.
Now, please notice the "more in the style of an updated Chrono Trigger sequel" part. ^_^


Anyway, 'Radical Dreamers' and 'Chrono Cross' are just diffrent universes.
There's even a small reminder, even an easter egg (if you'd like to call it that way), in 'Chrono Cross' which reffers to 'Radical Dreamers'.

In Chronopolis, while looking at that panel on the 4th floor:

Quote

Karsh: Does this device play back archives?

Steena: Looks like someone's memories.

Computer: ...... I wonder if you still remember... How we first met... and our many adventures... It all seemed like a dream... We ran like the wind duirng those warm, summer days... long ago... You were a piece of a star, that fell from the sky... I can still relive the memories of those days long past... Just by closing my eyes like such, and whispering your name into the desolate night... Kid... Kid... Radical Dreamers...

- Le Tresor Interdit -


Karsh: What's this...!?

Steena: Radical Dreamers...!? What does this mean?

Karsh: There's a conversation with a comrade.

Computer: Are you ready, Kid? I know you're anxious, but stay on your toes. Yeah, likewise, mate! You mess up, and I'm leavin' you behind! Got that, Serge? C'mon, Magil, let's go. That bastard Lynx is gonna get what he deserves! Say your prayers! ...Not that it'll do ya any good!!!

Karsh: ...... This seems to be an archive from a different time than our own.

Steena: Aside from the two worlds we already know about... other worlds and times may also exist...


Anyone who played 'Radical Dreamer' should have a small "flash back" since there's a long quote from 'Radical Dreamers'... ;)

Anyway, It's the 'Radical Dreamers' universe.
A parallel universe.



Quote

I might not remember well, but isn't Serge able to use magic in RD ?
...weird...


In one of the universes in RD, Serge finds out he can use magic too.
Though it isn't the universe of the "main" story line (Le Tresor Interdit).

Lord J Esq

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2005, 08:08:56 am »
Forgive me if I am misinterpreting, but weren't all seven scenarios of Radical Dreamers causatively independent of one another? That is, weren't they seven different flavors of the same story, and thus existing in seven different alternate realities? That's what I took from the diary readings at the end of each scenario. If this is the case, then Chrono Cross is simply another possible reality, the eighth story known to us, a tale much more developed and consequential than any of those portrayed in Radical Dreamers. They are all valid in terms of being real with respect to "Chrono Canon."

But do they share the common history of Chrono Trigger? That is the question, after all. At this point I would like to make a distinction between alternate universes and parallel universes. Simply put, alternate universes are simultaneous universes that shared a common history until some point of divergence in the past, at which they began to grow apart. In contrast, parallel universes are simultaneous universes that are bound together in time, so that their events strangely reflect one another despite countless instances of variation and distinction that would otherwise cause them to diverge beyond any similarity. Parallel universes share no common root; they were never a single entity.

My point is that it might be worthwhile to consider some or probably all of the Radical Dreamers scenarios as belonging to parallel universes, which offer a distortion of the Chrono story we know. These parallel worlds would not share the Chrono Trigger history that we played on the SNES and to which Chrono Cross is a direct sequel occuring in the same universe. This conveniently allows even the wackiest of the scenarios to remain legitimate within their own real, valid parallel universe within the greater Chronoverse, while reserving for Chrono Cross the preferential status of direct sequel.

Just a thought...

V_Translanka

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2005, 07:48:45 am »
I've always been under the impression that both RD & CC are based in alternate dimensions/timelines (whichever) and even CT is to a certain extent...CC takes place in a dimension/timeline with the Fall of Guardia, which I still vehemently state does not happen in the actual CT ending. It is New Game+ material and is thusly alternate dimension/timeline.

Chrono'99

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Re: Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2005, 07:50:51 am »
Quote from: Radical Dreamer
Quote from: GrayLensman
RD was never a "official" sequel to CT. Just a side history.


WRONG! ;p

'Radical Dreamer' is as much as 'sequel' as 'Chrono Cross' (if not more because it was released BEFORE 'Chrono Cross' was even thought of).
'Radical Dreamers' was the inspiration for the making of 'Chrono Cross'.

Actually, what GrayLensman said is TRUE.

Masato Kato confirmed it in interview about Chrono Cross :
Quote
Weekly Famitsu: First of all, this game doesn't seem to have the name "Dream Project" associated with it. Is it truly a sequel to Chrono Trigger? And why isn't it called "Chrono Trigger 2"?

Kato: There's a long story behind that, but to keep it short... After finishing Chrono Trigger, we created a game called "Radical Dreamers". Although we hadn't planned it that way initially, Radical Dreamers eventually ended up as a sort of sequel to one of the subplots in Chrono Trigger which we weren't able to tie up in Chrono Trigger itself. When Radical Dreamers was finished, we did Xenogears, and when talk turned to what to do after that, we decided to redo Radical Dreamers properly. That's why we didn't give the new project the name "Chrono Trigger 2".

That's it. They just wanted to make a small, random text-based adventure, but somehow they ended up putting Chrono Trigger related stuff in it because it was cool. This explains why there are lands in Radical Dreamers which were never mentioned in Chrono Trigger, and why the link isn't really direct (we follow Schala's story but not Crono, who's kinda just killed without any serious explanation).

V_Translanka

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Re: Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2005, 07:55:30 am »
Yeah, but...

Quote from: Chrono'99
Quote from: Radical Dreamer
Quote from: GrayLensman
RD was never a "official" sequel to CT. Just a side history.


WRONG! ;p

'Radical Dreamer' is as much as 'sequel' as 'Chrono Cross' (if not more because it was released BEFORE 'Chrono Cross' was even thought of).
'Radical Dreamers' was the inspiration for the making of 'Chrono Cross'.

Actually, what GrayLensman said is TRUE.

Masato Kato confirmed it in interview about Chrono Cross :
Quote
Weekly Famitsu: First of all, this game doesn't seem to have the name "Dream Project" associated with it. Is it truly a sequel to Chrono Trigger? And why isn't it called "Chrono Trigger 2"?

Kato: There's a long story behind that, but to keep it short... After finishing Chrono Trigger, we created a game called "Radical Dreamers". Although we hadn't planned it that way initially, Radical Dreamers eventually ended up as a sort of sequel to one of the subplots in Chrono Trigger which we weren't able to tie up in Chrono Trigger itself. When Radical Dreamers was finished, we did Xenogears, and when talk turned to what to do after that, we decided to redo Radical Dreamers properly. That's why we didn't give the new project the name "Chrono Trigger 2".

That's it. They just wanted to make a small, random text-based adventure, but somehow they ended up putting Chrono Trigger related stuff in it because it was cool. This explains why there are lands in Radical Dreamers which were never mentioned in Chrono Trigger, and why the link isn't really direct (we follow Schala's story but not Crono, who's kinda just killed without any serious explanation).


Isn't THAT part a little more important?

Shadow_Dragon

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2005, 09:55:33 pm »
i've never played far into RD, and i didn't even think it had anything to do with CT until i came here, but "Radical Dreamers eventually ended up as a sort of sequel to one of the subplots in Chrono Trigger which we weren't able to tie up in Chrono Trigger itself." made it seem like RD ended up focusing on one aspect of CT, not a world alternate to it

Radical Dreamer

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2005, 02:54:32 pm »
Quote from: Lord J esq
Forgive me if I am misinterpreting, but weren't all seven scenarios of Radical Dreamers causatively independent of one another? That is, weren't they seven different flavors of the same story, and thus existing in seven different alternate realities? That's what I took from the diary readings at the end of each scenario. If this is the case, then Chrono Cross is simply another possible reality


True.


Quote from: Lord J esq

In contrast, parallel universes are simultaneous universes that are bound together in time, so that their events strangely reflect one another despite countless instances of variation and distinction that would otherwise cause them to diverge beyond any similarity. Parallel universes share no common root; they were never a single entity.


They are Parallel universes.
Otherwise, if the history was identical, the events of 'Radical Dreamers' and 'Chrono Cross' would be the same.
Just wondering - is anyone here is familiar with the theory of relativity, the quantom theory and the chaos theory (and the 'butterfly effect')?



Quote from: Lord J esq

My point is that it might be worthwhile to consider some or probably all of the Radical Dreamers scenarios as belonging to parallel universes, which offer a distortion of the Chrono story we know. These parallel worlds would not share the Chrono Trigger history that we played on the SNES and to which Chrono Cross is a direct sequel occuring in the same universe.


'Radical Dreamers' diffrent scenarios ARE diffrent scenarios which happen in parallel universes.

That's why in the end of each scenarios you are reminded that this story ends but in antoher time and another place, similiar events occured, but the characters aren't aware of their other selves.

Anyway, you can't say that 'Chrono Cross' is a sequel to 'Chrono Trigger' just as much as you can't say that 'Radical Dreamers' is.



Quote from: Lord J esq

This conveniently allows even the wackiest of the scenarios to remain legitimate within their own real, valid parallel universe within the greater Chronoverse, while reserving for Chrono Cross the preferential status of direct sequel.


Exactly.




Quote from: V_Translanka

I've always been under the impression that both RD & CC are based in alternate dimensions/timelines (whichever)


Parallel universes.



Quote from: V_Translanka

CC takes place in a dimension/timeline with the Fall of Guardia, which I still vehemently state does not happen in the actual CT ending.
It is New Game+ material and is thusly alternate dimension/timeline.


Actually, you don't know what happens after the end of 'Chrono Trigger'.
Either than that, there's no "actual" ending.




Quote from: Chrono'99


Actually, what GrayLensman said is TRUE.

Masato Kato confirmed it in interview about Chrono Cross :
Quote:
Weekly Famitsu: First of all, this game doesn't seem to have the name "Dream Project" associated with it. Is it truly a sequel to Chrono Trigger? And why isn't it called "Chrono Trigger 2"?

Kato: There's a long story behind that, but to keep it short... After finishing Chrono Trigger, we created a game called "Radical Dreamers". Although we hadn't planned it that way initially, Radical Dreamers eventually ended up as a sort of sequel to one of the subplots in Chrono Trigger which we weren't able to tie up in Chrono Trigger itself. When Radical Dreamers was finished, we did Xenogears, and when talk turned to what to do after that, we decided to redo Radical Dreamers properly. That's why we didn't give the new project the name "Chrono Trigger 2".


I remember this interview.
But still, please notice that it wasn't *PLANNED* INITIALLY as a sequel but it did ended up as one. It ties up a lot loose ends.
It's not like the game was finished and then it was decided to change a few line so it will end up somewhat related to 'Chrono Trigger' because it's "cool". -___-
If you don't consider 'Radical Dreamers' a sequel then you can't consider 'Chrono Cross' as a sequel either.
'Chrono Cross' is somewhat of a remake of 'Radical Dreamers' but since it's diffrent than the story of 'Radical Dreamers', it's considered to be another, diffrent, universe.

Shadow_Dragon

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2005, 06:21:57 pm »
Quote from: Lord J esq

In contrast, parallel universes are simultaneous universes that are bound together in time, so that their events strangely reflect one another despite countless instances of variation and distinction that would otherwise cause them to diverge beyond any similarity. Parallel universes share no common root; they were never a single entity.


They are Parallel universes.
Otherwise, if the history was identical, the events of 'Radical Dreamers' and 'Chrono Cross' would be the same.
Just wondering - is anyone here is familiar with the theory of relativity, the quantom theory and the chaos theory (and the 'butterfly effect')?


I think that, in reality, our past history makes us do things, and that we don't really have free will (if anyone has seen Run Lola Run, I think that the guy and the dog on the steps in the cartoon sequence are the 'butterfly' of the butterfly effect that causes everything to happen differently in the 3 scenaries since everything before them is the same), but the Chrono Trigger/Cross/RD world (is that Chronoverse?) doesn't run under those assumptions
For example, the histories of the normal dimension and the dinopolis dimension were exactly similar up until lavos' arrival; in one Lavos fell, in the other he didn't, but up until that point they were exactly similar, so, no, just because two timelines/parallel dimensions have the same events doesn't mean that they can't branch off in different directions

Eggith Cyrene

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2005, 04:02:24 pm »
RD is a alternate dimension where the events in RD repeat over nad over again. At leats thats my take on it. Wheter theres Mutiple dimensa with similar events occuring or there is just the one  who is to say.



Both Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross are NOT sequels To Chrono Trigger. There Both Gaiden's OR Side Stories to it.

In an interview with the creator(s) they specifically said that CC was a side story other wise they would have called it Chrono Trigger 2.

So side story NOT sequel Nevermind what it says on the back of the CC case.

Sentenal

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2005, 04:07:25 pm »
Thats semantics.

V_Translanka

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Continuity of Radical Dreamers
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2005, 07:48:43 pm »
They way I see it, the true ending is where you do every sidequest (including the Black Omens) and do everything possible (including the destruction of the Epoch), thus leaving to untied ends at...the end...ie the Balloon Ending. Either way, no Fall of Guardia until New Game+