The Einlanzer

[GrayLensman]

Well, the thing with elements. Serge tried using "Inferno" but it failed. No human should have or know that magic exists. Elements on the other hand were widely known about in El Nido. If Serge's element thing wasn't full yet, he might not have been able to cast it.

BTW, I always thought that Regiorra and Grezenbule were just prototype names for like Termina, Arni etc.

Not quite.

I barely miss a set of claws as I dodge a quick attack. As it lands and starts
to turn around, I take advantage of the opportunity and chant an old spell of
mine, hoping to get the incantation right...
However, nothing happens!

I whip around to see Magil's inferno spell setting a cat's head ablaze! It
jumps up, screeching and howling in madness before running away wildly. In
confusion, it runs directly into a tree and knocks itself out cold!

The characters in Radical Dreamers are using magic.

[Zaperking]

Then why could Kid not use any magic. Kid had to merge with the Sunflower and use Shadow magic, and then her power from Schala's old soul was awakened in her, and now she was able to use it. (This should answer the old question of which innate she was. In RD, it's more towards the line of Shadow magic).

[GrayLensman]

Then why could Kid not use any magic. Kid had to merge with the Sunflower and use Shadow magic, and then her power from Schala's old soul was awakened in her, and now she was able to use it. (This should answer the old question of which innate she was. In RD, it's more towards the line of Shadow magic).

Kid could not initially use magic for the same reason Crono had to visit Spekkio before he could use magic.  Presumably, all magic users need to have their ability unlocked, such as by the Mammon Machine or Spekkio.

Shadow would also be my guess for Schala's alignment.

[ShoeMagus]

Then why could Kid not use any magic. Kid had to merge with the Sunflower and use Shadow magic, and then her power from Schala's old soul was awakened in her, and now she was able to use it. (This should answer the old question of which innate she was. In RD, it's more towards the line of Shadow magic).

Kid could not initially use magic for the same reason Crono had to visit Spekkio before he could use magic.  Presumably, all magic users need to have their ability unlocked, such as by the Mammon Machine or Spekkio.

Shadow would also be my guess for Schala's alignment.

Or the Frozen Flame (or was it the Dreamstone? or Both?)

[GrayLensman]

Or the Frozen Flame (or was it the Dreamstone? or Both?)

I think those are equally possible.

[Zaperking]

Frozen Flame, but you'd either have to make the wish or it'd take a while for it to be unlocked.

Dreamstone would only drain you of energy most likely.

[nightmare975]

I think more along the lines of destruction magic.

But thats just for when time devour forms.

[ShoeMagus]

I think its the Dreamstone actually.

Consider electricity would burn you alive in its pure form. But convert and control it, and its extremely harnessable.

Sure the Dreamstone unproccessed would drain you. But harness it, change it, and turn it into some dynamically usable. Till it begins to change you. The Masamune harnessed the emotional energy of the user. But it also began to affect others. While this is only most visible in its evil form, there's no evidence it wasn't true in its Holy sword form.

So could it not be the thing, that through our manipulation, probably some rudimentary form of science, it began to change us too?

I like the Frozen Flame idea and all. And I do believe that had a hand. But I don't think it was the only hand. Is the famous quote at the top of my signature not atrributed to the Dreamstone?

[Kazuki]

I think more along the lines of destruction magic.

But thats just for when time devour forms.

Er, what do you mean? When the Time Devourer formed, I don't recall any, "negative," energy being involved per se. Lavos did have negative emotions, however the force that combined them didn't a moral standing.

[Zaperking]

I think its the Dreamstone actually.

Consider electricity would burn you alive in its pure form. But convert and control it, and its extremely harnessable.

Sure the Dreamstone unproccessed would drain you. But harness it, change it, and turn it into some dynamically usable. Till it begins to change you. The Masamune harnessed the emotional energy of the user. But it also began to affect others. While this is only most visible in its evil form, there's no evidence it wasn't true in its Holy sword form.

So could it not be the thing, that through our manipulation, probably some rudimentary form of science, it began to change us too?

I like the Frozen Flame idea and all. And I do believe that had a hand. But I don't think it was the only hand. Is the famous quote at the top of my signature not atrributed to the Dreamstone?

Have you played Chrono Cross? Common sence proves that the shard of red rock WAS and IS the Frozen Flame.

1) Chronopolis says that a drastic change in the humans anatomy and brain size happened 3 million years ago, because they came in contact with something alienish.
2) Chronopolis says that because Lavos killed off the Reptites for the humans, they survived. That they are his prodigy in more than one way *hint hint- Frozen Flame evolution*
3)If the Prehistoric people had dreamstone all along, then they'd have been advanced before 3,000,000BC.
4) The Masamune was powered and formed from Lavos' energy, and is guarded by Masa and Mune. A lot of it's energy is released when the user releases emotions, but the evil one automatically feeds off their negative ones.
5) Lynx called the Frozen Flame "The Crimson Stone". That's almost what Belthasar said. Per say, Belthasar didn't know what to call the Frozen Flame until he came into the saved  timeline in 2300AD where the Frozen Flame was more than a myth and was given a name.
6)The word here being "shard" that relates to what Chronopolis had said about a "shard" of Lavos falling off as he entered the atmosphere.

Ofcourse, Ultima magazine says that the Frozen Flame is dreamstone, but Ultima cannot be trusted. How can a piece of Lavos that is sentient be a natural inanimate object that is only produced on the planet. Not to mention the magazine having descripancies to do with Characters and plot itself.

As for Kid (Schala), i think he meant that Shadow magic is destructive magic, which it is. Schala most likely is a Shadow Innate. And I hold onto the belief that Shadow magic is true magic. That anyone who has Shadow magic can use Lightning,Fire and Water magic. Basically, Shadow magic split off into the other 3 when the Zealians stopped learning magic and just leeched of the Mammon Machine. In other words, the purest form of usable magic was Shadow. That's why Magus, being a Shadow Magic dude can not only use the other 3 innates even though he isn't of that innate, but he can also cast spells to transform people into Frog's etc.
And just like with Schala, she shows us that she can do more than an innate magic can do.

[Chrono'99]

1) Chronopolis says that a drastic change in the humans anatomy and brain size happened 3 million years ago, because they came in contact with something alienish.
2) Chronopolis says that because Lavos killed off the Reptites for the humans, they survived. That they are his prodigy in more than one way *hint hint- Frozen Flame evolution*
3)If the Prehistoric people had dreamstone all along, then they'd have been advanced before 3,000,000BC.

The face in Terra Tower (not Chronopolis by the way) claims that the "unnatural" evolution process lasted 3,000,000 years, not that it began in 3,000,000 BC. The span could have been from 65,000,000 BC to 62,000,000 BC for all we know.

Ofcourse, Ultima magazine says that the Frozen Flame is dreamstone, but Ultima cannot be trusted. How can a piece of Lavos that is sentient be a natural inanimate object that is only produced on the planet. Not to mention the magazine having descripancies to do with Characters and plot itself.

That's a pure urban legend. Ultimania never says that the FF is Dreamstone, it just compares them, make out some similitudes, then precisely notes, just like you do, that FF can't be DS because DS existed before Lavos fell on the planet.

And I don't see what those character and plot discrepancies are.

[Zaperking]

I only ever saw a scan with the DS page on it and the FF. Someone just said that it had a lot of discreprencies, and that's why it couldn't be trusted.

Also, I'd rather believe what Chronopolis says than the face in Terra Tower. Chronopolis works of facts and logic.
Whilst Terra Tower is not only from another dimension, but it's probably also guessing as they don't like humans anyway.

This is proof that they came in contact with the Flame. It's in Fort Dragonia:

Wielding absolute power,
   Lavos buried the dinosaurs -
   the kings of the land -
   in the space of a night.

   However, the timid '"apes"'
   who had lived hidden in
   the forests...
   
   ...came into contact with
   the crimsom flame
   that fell from the sky,
   and evolved into '"humans."'

   Or perhaps it was
   not '"evolution,"'
   but '"transformation."'

See.. It's the shard.. The Frozen Flame!!
Need more proof? This is the quote from Terra Tower:

A brain that has developed abnormally
   to 3 times the original size in the
   span of 3 million years...

   We humans have evolved at an
   enormous rate because of our
   contact with Lavos's flame...

   In a sense, mankind is Lavos's offspring...

   We humans are extraneous to this planet...

I wonder who the prisoner is...

It may have been in a span of 3 million years, but it was done by Lavos' flame.. The Frozen Flame. And since Chronopolis said it happened 3,000,000 years ago, then that span happened around then. You need to combine game evidence to get the truth, you know.

Oh and while I was searching through the Script.. Guess who named Nikki's band?:

Nikki:
   But one day, a woman stopped
   by my trailer and said...
   '"Your songs sing of
    magical dreams.
    They're beautiful..."'
   Those words made me
   so happy...
   That's when I decided that
   if I were ever to have my
   own band, I would name it
   '"Magical Dreamers!!!"'
   
Kid:
   Huh...
   I think I might have
   an idea who that
   woman might be...

Nikki:
   ......!
   You know her!?
   Inc17002Please, tell me
   who she is!
   I've been wanting to
   thank her all these years!

Kid:
   ......
   One of these days, I'll tell ya.
   ...When everythin's over.
   
Nikki:
   Looks like you have
   your reasons...
   OK, then,
   that's a promise.

Kid:
   Yeah, sure...
   But when that time comes,
   let me hear some of
   yer old songs.

Seems like Lucca XD So Lucca was the reason behind Radical and Magical Dreamers, lol!

Hmm.. Kk

Also, This may be off topic, but I think I found what kind of proves Schala's/Kid's merger.

It has the power to cross
   space and time and unify
   people's thoughts and feelings...

   It has the power to
   transfer memories...

We know that in the end, Schala seems to be having some kind of personality problem... This may answer it.

[Chrono'99]

It may have been in a span of 3 million years, but it was done by Lavos' flame.. The Frozen Flame. And since Chronopolis said it happened 3,000,000 years ago, then that span happened around then. You need to combine game evidence to get the truth, you know.

How ironic. Of course we have to combine game evidence, but you also don't have to create imaginary evidence to suit your theories . Chronopolis never said anything about something happening 3,000,000 years ago.

[Zaperking]

It may have been in a span of 3 million years, but it was done by Lavos' flame.. The Frozen Flame. And since Chronopolis said it happened 3,000,000 years ago, then that span happened around then. You need to combine game evidence to get the truth, you know.

How ironic. Of course we have to combine game evidence, but you also don't have to create imaginary evidence to suit your theories . Chronopolis never said anything about something happening 3,000,000 years ago.

Hmm, My bad. I thought it was actually said so. Anyway, it makes more sence if it was in the last 3,000,000 years. Evolution can't just go 3,000,000years and then theres a halt. If they were around the flame as they should have been, then they'd be even more evolved. And because Zeal still had the Flame (Mammon Machine interior) that would mean that 3,000,000BC-12,000BC was the time when the flame did it's work most logically.

 The anthropod brain enlarged
   at an accelerating pace until it
   became the human brain we know.
   Could the reason for the
   abnormal development of the
   human brain be the biological
   contamination caused by Lavos?
   That would mean that humans are
   really a heterogeneous life-form,
   or '"foreign matter,"' as far as
   the planet is concerned.
   Humans are a sudden mutation
   caused by the contact with
   Lavos -- an alien life-form that
   fell to this planet from space.
   That is why humans are,
   biologically speaking,
   unbalanced and half-finished.
   Internally inconsistent and
   disconnected, the human
   existence is plagued by
   contradictions.
  An incomplete species,
   torn between love and hatred,
   whose very being is self-
   contradictory.
   From the planet's viewpoint,
   humans are just destroyers
   and a cursed, yet perhaps
   pathetic, blight on the world.

An Incomplete species, torn between love and hatred, whose very being is self-contradictory. This was what Belthasar was talking about. It cultivated Dreams and in turn, Love and Hate were born. What Belthasar was talking about was definitely the flame.

[ShoeMagus]

Where did the Frozen Flame come from? From what I've come to understand, it was a broken shard of Lavos that broke off of him/it on impact with Earth.

Dreamstone existed on Earth before the Frozen Flame. Ayla had a bigass chunk of it if you recall which is how the Masamune was mended.

And very good with the Frozen Flame. But what am I talking and arguing about? The origin of Magic. You're talking about Human evolution/transformation. And Yes the Frozen Flame boosted our mental powers. We went from the apes Azala so despised to Humans, living in floating continents.

But the Origin of Magic? The Flame and Lavos is always assumed. Unless I misread what you posted, it still never mentions it.

Now next you'll no doubt quote that Dinopolis didn't have Magic other then elements. But it was still a form of controlling the natural forces of the world. My conclusion? Magic evolved differently. Yes Lavos did change humanity and in a way, I think he opened a door to the use of magic in the way it was. But the origin of Magic? No. There's nothing saying that the Dragonians didn't have Magic as the Zealians did or Crono and Co did. We just knew the elements.

Shadow has always so fascinated me. Do you recall Spekkio's comment on Magus? "You guys brought in a marlin here. He could probably teach ME a thing or two." It seems very much that Shadow would've been THE magic. Shadow is the most powerful (quoted as such if you read the game booklet, Lightning Water and Fire are said to go into the creation of Shadow.)

Though its kind of open. It SEEMS most likely. But then again, things like the Life tech doesn't seem to have any connection to Lightning magic, but Crono could still use it. It was most likely developers balancing out the character, but it has to be considered.