Alternative Theory on the Plot of CC in relation to CT

[Zaperking]

As for Luminair is powerful, etc. etc., thats the only reason I brought up the battle system. You cant say it would kill thousands in minutes because we've only seen its affect within the confines of a battle engine.

Do you see the damage speading out with more enemies being hit by the spell? I thought not. It does the same damage to each enemy, no matter how many are present. It's only quesiton is range. I think the range is big enough.

And I have to disagree with Zaper about the "only mortal" comment. They're not. They're grown so incredibly strong, which is how they were able to defeat Lavos. That wasn't a freak accident, that was all real, a full-scale assault by both parties. These guys might as well be super human from how hard they've trained themselves and how powerful they've become naturally, as well as with magic to protect them and assist in their offensive.

It's kinda like Neo. Pretend that his rebirth was basically adding 90 levels and all his spells and techniques. Were they super humans at first? No. But they got that way. That's my belief, and it makes perfect sense.

We've seen how powerful Lavos can be, 1 vs 1. Crono disintergrated infront of him. Magus nearly lost all his energy in one blow. The fight vs Lavos would not have been to long afte rhis resserction. As I have said, Gaspar was literal about them getting energy from all the spirits that they met etc.

They are humans, and humans die. Frog died, Ayla died, Lucca died. Fighting Lavos outside the battle system would have proven to be much harder.
Plus, just because you have magic doesn't mean that a bullet wont penetrate flesh. The point of having magic is to either prevent that from happening by taking out the enemy, weakening them, or protecting yourself.

Anyway, I myself personally think that after the battle, their powers may have been weakened, as the mission is over. Lucca would not have died otherwise, and Porre's taking over would not have happened, and Belthasar would have told Crono and co to help out.

Oh, and if you're going to be all "they're so powerful etc. etc." then why did Marle panic when the ballon pick her up? Obviously, if she'd fall, it'd hurt. Luckily her and Crono landed in a tree, lols.

[Theicedragon]

Obviously if they were superheores they would still be alive.  They are weak against the PLOT.  It doesn't matter if they were super strong, had ranibow armor, sword, magic, it doesn't matter.  If the plot says that they die, then they die.  Everyont thought superman was invincible, but he died.  In DBZ Goku dies all the time. It doens't matter when you deal with the plot.  The plot was that porre invaded Guardia and Crono and Marle seem to disappear.  Until we have in-game evidence that states otherwise, arguments about how strong they are and weapons are moot points.

[Elvis_Maximus]

In DBZ Goku dies all the time. It doens't matter when you deal with the plot.

Now now now, lets not bring up the atrocity that some consider plot of DBZ (IMO). I mean.. really... death is no more an inconvinence than say, getting stuck in traffic in DBZ.

The plot was that porre invaded Guardia and Crono and Marle seem to disappear.  Until we have in-game evidence that states otherwise, arguments about how strong they are and weapons are moot points.

I agree to a certain extent. While we can't say that weapons etc. would have a place in the plot, they *did* defeat something that destroyed the entire world.


Basically, I say they lived.

[Zaperking]

Blant point - Crono a has died before. Because he has died, it means he is not immortal or can't die from anything. Lavos did him in good, and that was a fraction of his power.

But that's not the point. Because Lucca did die to Lynx, and Lynx (in your opinion) should no way be near enough to kill her since he's just a body with the look of a cat etc., then really, explain why she could not kill him in her house? She knew the fire had started, and was beaten by Lynx and Harle. Kid then rushed into the room just intime for Lucca to be teleported away.
I myself believe their powers would have weakened over time.
1) The entity wouldn't allow people to be all powerful since they might go against the entity, or make themselves Gods.
2) As Spekkio said, magic was lost overtime etc. etc.
3) If you don't use magic, like anything else, for a long period of time - it gets rusty.

But since you think that didn't happen, and that they're almost omnipotent, you still can't explain why Crono died and Lucca can die. Robo may not have a body, but he was still deleted.

[CyberSarkany]

Was Chronopolis found by later Guardia or Porre(or the arris/bangor or whatever dome in the original timeline)?
Maybe Crono and Marle were hiding after the attack of Porre, and planed to reconquer their land. They were still king and queen(or was Crono still prince?), so they had the duty to rule the country, not to fight.
Didn't porres soldiers leave CC at the end of the game? Maybe it was because porre needed all forces to strike an attack back.
Hope anybody got what i wanted to say...

[Zaperking]

Was Chronopolis found by later Guardia or Porre(or the arris/bangor or whatever dome in the original timeline)?
Maybe Crono and Marle were hiding after the attack of Porre, and planed to reconquer their land. They were still king and queen(or was Crono still prince?), so they had the duty to rule the country, not to fight.
Didn't porres soldiers leave CC at the end of the game? Maybe it was because porre needed all forces to strike an attack back.
Hope anybody got what i wanted to say...

Chronopolis was only founded in the good timeline, thanks to the new timeline's Belthasar. Possibly, in the good future or just even in the original timeline, Porre may have taken over slower, since there is a "Central Regime". But also, since FATE is supposed to stop anything going on in the mainland that didn't happen in the original timeline, and the Fall of Guardia happened, it may mean that it was supposed to happen anyway.

I'm not sure that the Porreans left at the end of the game. In Home World, they took over. In Another World, they stopped their assult because Viper recovered and stuff.

[AuraTwilight]

But that's not the point. Because Lucca did die to Lynx, and Lynx (in your opinion) should no way be near enough to kill her since he's just a body with the look of a cat etc., then really, explain why she could not kill him in her house? She knew the fire had started, and was beaten by Lynx and Harle. Kid then rushed into the room just intime for Lucca to be teleported away.
I myself believe their powers would have weakened over time.
1) The entity wouldn't allow people to be all powerful since they might go against the entity, or make themselves Gods.
2) As Spekkio said, magic was lost overtime etc. etc.
3) If you don't use magic, like anything else, for a long period of time - it gets rusty.

and how Lynx had his own weapons and magical power, and how there were children that needed to be saved, and how Lucca couldn't use her magic in a controllable rate within such a closed space, and how she might not have any of her weapons or armor on her, since it's a damn orphanage! I could go on.

[Zaperking]

But that's not the point. Because Lucca did die to Lynx, and Lynx (in your opinion) should no way be near enough to kill her since he's just a body with the look of a cat etc., then really, explain why she could not kill him in her house? She knew the fire had started, and was beaten by Lynx and Harle. Kid then rushed into the room just intime for Lucca to be teleported away.
I myself believe their powers would have weakened over time.
1) The entity wouldn't allow people to be all powerful since they might go against the entity, or make themselves Gods.
2) As Spekkio said, magic was lost overtime etc. etc.
3) If you don't use magic, like anything else, for a long period of time - it gets rusty.

and how Lynx had his own weapons and magical power, and how there were children that needed to be saved, and how Lucca couldn't use her magic in a controllable rate within such a closed space, and how she might not have any of her weapons or armor on her, since it's a damn orphanage! I could go on.

Your last point is more valid. She had no armour. She had her gun, and plenty of them too (she was doing trades, and most likely was making them in her spare time, so there most likely was some kind of stash. lol, that sounds weird..
Some people here still insist that if someone like Crono, Lucca, Marle etc. were shot blank in the face (example if they were sleeping), the bullet would just bounce off... WTF... Really..

As for Lucca, the house is a controlable space. I don't remember the carpate in the Tryno Lair setting ablaze, or any other time, not in the ocean palace, not anywhere. Magical fire, unlike normal fire, is contolable. Elemental fire is another thing.

Lynx does not have magical power, he has elements. Personally, Harle would be more powerful magical/elemental wise since she is actually an incarnate of such a power.

As for the children, it didn't seem like that was her first priority. Gato makes it pretty clear that Lucca rushed to the room where Kid, and probably started fighting.

Also, remove that quote. It's so mean, and im sick of it. I've never been that malicious to you or Sentenal. And to think, you're the ones who call ME childish.

[Chrono'99]

Yeah that quote is pretty out of place. I thought flaming was forbidden here.

[AuraTwilight]

Your last point is more valid. She had no armour. She had her gun, and plenty of them too (she was doing trades, and most likely was making them in her spare time, so there most likely was some kind of stash. lol, that sounds weird..
Some people here still insist that if someone like Crono, Lucca, Marle etc. were shot blank in the face (example if they were sleeping), the bullet would just bounce off... WTF... Really..

As for Lucca, the house is a controlable space. I don't remember the carpate in the Tryno Lair setting ablaze, or any other time, not in the ocean palace, not anywhere. Magical fire, unlike normal fire, is contolable. Elemental fire is another thing.

Lynx does not have magical power, he has elements. Personally, Harle would be more powerful magical/elemental wise since she is actually an incarnate of such a power.

As for the children, it didn't seem like that was her first priority. Gato makes it pretty clear that Lucca rushed to the room where Kid, and probably started fighting.

Just because she has guns in the house doesn't mean she has them on hand. She probably locked most of them up in the basement or something so that the kids couldn't get them and she was caught off guard. Plus, there's no proof that Lucca made that fire. Also, aren't elements, more or less, magic just a seperate medium of summoning it.

[GrayLensman]

No, i'm just saying that if they were shot in the face, they'd die.

I'm not going to argue about everything else, but is getting shot in the face so powerful an attack that nothing can withstand it?  If Lavos was shot in the face, would it die?  

The text in Chrono Cross has evidence suggesting that the time travellers are dead or that some might still be alive.  Considering that we don't actually see anyone die, we have too at least consider the possibility that they are alive.  There is also the possibility that the time travellers died in an unspecified incident, as hinted by Masato Kato.  If it turns out that the time travellers died, that's fine; however, I'll bet that they weren't shot in the face, because that would be poor storytelling.

[Elvis_Maximus]

Here's what it boils down to for me: no matter how much evidence (or theories) you provide... an alternative example or theory can be provided; there is too many unknowns to nail it down.


I personally choose to believe that they're alive.



Oh, and Zaper, on the subject of personal attacks and flaming:

But that's not the point. Because Lucca did die to Lynx, and Lynx (in your opinion) should no way be near enough to kill her since he's just a body with the look of a cat etc., then really, explain why she could not kill him in her house? She knew the fire had started, and was beaten by Lynx and Harle. Kid then rushed into the room just intime for Lucca to be teleported away.
I myself believe their powers would have weakened over time.
1) The entity wouldn't allow people to be all powerful since they might go against the entity, or make themselves Gods.
2) As Spekkio said, magic was lost overtime etc. etc.
3) If you don't use magic, like anything else, for a long period of time - it gets rusty.

But since you think that didn't happen, and that they're almost omnipotent, you still can't explain why Crono died and Lucca can die. Robo may not have a body, but he was still deleted.

Reread your own post, and fix the tone if you're going to complain about not flaming, its a bit hostile towards people who choose to believe Crono didn't die. You make plenty of unfair assumptions about what I and others believe or do not believe, and insult our logic and (it seems) make an attempt at an underhand mockery of our viewpoint, and I don't appreciate that.

[Zaperking]

No, i'm just saying that if they were shot in the face, they'd die.

I'm not going to argue about everything else, but is getting shot in the face so powerful an attack that nothing can withstand it?  If Lavos was shot in the face, would it die?  

The text in Chrono Cross has evidence suggesting that the time travellers are dead or that some might still be alive.  Considering that we don't actually see anyone die, we have too at least consider the possibility that they are alive.  There is also the possibility that the time travellers died in an unspecified incident, as hinted by Masato Kato.  If it turns out that the time travellers died, that's fine; however, I'll bet that they weren't shot in the face, because that would be poor storytelling.

I'm just giving an example. If my example happened, do you believe they would die.

Also, you can't compare Lavos to Crono. His face is like.. Hard, Crono's is flesh. Besides, Lavos composes of 65,000,000 million years of the planets energy, and gene pull from every living being. Lavos did die multiple times, but always came back thanks to those bits.
But obviously, Lavos' death is a part of the plot, and that's final. So even if Crono was lvl one, and anything can kill him, but he miraculously killed Lavos (if you could get up to there), then you killed Lavos. But since Crono and co can still be wiped out by Yakra, you can't just say that they can't die because they killed the strongest thing in the universe.

Reread your own post, and fix the tone if you're going to complain about not flaming, its a bit hostile towards people who choose to believe Crono didn't die. You make plenty of unfair assumptions about what I and others believe or do not believe, and insult our logic and (it seems) make an attempt at an underhand mockery of our viewpoint, and I don't appreciate that.

There's a difference between personal attack and trying to disprove a theory used by many. I'm the disprove a theory type, and if you think that i'm insulting your logic, then you should look back on what i've asked many times.

I'm not being hostile, it's my way that I always debate. *I am on the school debating team*.
People can't justify something without looking at the evidence. For your own interest, i'm asking you from everything that you've said about Crono and co being untouchable, superior that they can't be killed etc to justify it with evidence that does not include the battle system, since I've already given enough evidence to why they cannot be immortal. Masato himself inclined that Crono and Marle perished in the Fall of Guardia, and we already know that Lucca died. It doesn't matter how, the point is that any who believe that Crono and Lucca and Marle are invincible only through comparison to Lavos are clearly going in circles.

You can't just throw away my own theory when I've asked a question. And then say that i'm being hostile. You're the ones mocking me, when you can't even answer a question.
Also, I'm not flaming. What kind of insinuation is this? There's a difference between openly congratulating someone on "destryong someones comments" when there is nothing to prove that I myself am wrong and simply trying to rebuttle your argument.

Now think about that.

[Sentenal]

I'm going to jump back into this.  

Blant point - Crono a has died before. Because he has died, it means he is not immortal or can't die from anything. Lavos did him in good, and that was a fraction of his power.

Yeah, Lavos killed Crono.  You don't know what amount of his power he used agianst him was.  Don't present assumtions as fact.  And we know for a fact that that was only a fraction of Crono's power, as he later comes back and kills Lavos.

But that's not the point. Because Lucca did die to Lynx, and Lynx (in your opinion) should no way be near enough to kill her since he's just a body with the look of a cat etc., then really, explain why she could not kill him in her house? She knew the fire had started, and was beaten by Lynx and Harle. Kid then rushed into the room just intime for Lucca to be teleported away.

I've said this in the past, but here are factors that may have contributed to Lucca being defeated.  
1.) She uses fire magic.  What good is that going to do in a burning house?  Make it worse.
2.) Little orphans running around in a blaze, orphans that she cares about, would be a big distraction in fighting.
3.) What weapon did Lucca use?  Physical strength?  No.  Guns.  Its not a huge assumtion to say that maybe she wasn't carrying one when Lynx attacked.
4.) She obviously wasn't wearing her armor.

I myself believe their powers would have weakened over time.
1) The entity wouldn't allow people to be all powerful since they might go against the entity, or make themselves Gods.
2) As Spekkio said, magic was lost overtime etc. etc.
3) If you don't use magic, like anything else, for a long period of time - it gets rusty.

1.) The entity doesn't have control over how powerful people get.  If it did, it would have done something about Lavos's power.
2.) Wrong.  Spekkio said:

But in time, people
began to abuse their powers.  It got so bad that no one was allowed to use
magic except wizards.

He said no one was allowed to use it, so it wasn't taught anymore, and only Wizards were allowed to use it.
3.) Who says that Crono didn't stay in practice?  Plus, the Fall of Guardia happend only 5 years after CT's 1000ad.  Really, thats really not a long enough time for Crono to get so out of practice that he would forget all his magic, loose his strength and speed, etc etc.  Lessened?  Maybe.  But then agian, who says that Crono didn't keep his strength up, and keep training, etc etc.

But since you think that didn't happen, and that they're almost omnipotent, you still can't explain why Crono died and Lucca can die. Robo may not have a body, but he was still deleted.

Who says they are omnipotent?  Just because a person is incredably strong, just because someone is one of the most powerful beings in history, does not make someone invinsible.
Crono died?  Are you talking about in Zeal?
Lucca died:  See above.
Robo dieing: ...

Crono and co are able to be killed.  But at the level they are at, they could not be killed by weaklings.  It would take another powerful being to defeat them.

[AuraTwilight]

Also, you can't compare Lavos to Crono. His face is like.. Hard, Crono's is flesh. Besides, Lavos composes of 65,000,000 million years of the planets energy, and gene pull from every living being. Lavos did die multiple times, but always came back thanks to those bits.
But obviously, Lavos' death is a part of the plot, and that's final. So even if Crono was lvl one, and anything can kill him, but he miraculously killed Lavos (if you could get up to there), then you killed Lavos. But since Crono and co can still be wiped out by Yakra, you can't just say that they can't die because they killed the strongest thing in the universe.

Lavos only died once, twice if you count the Time Devourer. and if Crono and co could destroy Lavos, he's clearly not the strongest thing in the universe.

*I am on the school debating team*.

Oh lord.

People can't justify something without looking at the evidence.

The irony

Yeah, Lavos killed Crono. You don't know what amount of his power he used agianst him was. Don't present assumtions as fact. And we know for a fact that that was only a fraction of Crono's power, as he later comes back and kills Lavos.

Or more accurately, he gets stronger.

1.) She uses fire magic. What good is that going to do in a burning house? Make it worse.
2.) Little orphans running around in a blaze, orphans that she cares about, would be a big distraction in fighting.
3.) What weapon did Lucca use? Physical strength? No. Guns. Its not a huge assumtion to say that maybe she wasn't carrying one when Lynx attacked.
4.) She obviously wasn't wearing her armor.

My points exactly.

Who says that Crono didn't stay in practice? Plus, the Fall of Guardia happend only 5 years after CT's 1000ad. Really, thats really not a long enough time for Crono to get so out of practice that he would forget all his magic, loose his strength and speed, etc etc. Lessened? Maybe. But then agian, who says that Crono didn't keep his strength up, and keep training, etc etc.

In all fairness to Zapar, Crono does have a kingdom and family to care for. Training probably wasn't a very high priority.