Alternative Theory on the Plot of CC in relation to CT

[Zaperking]

I'd like to point out that, in the game, Spekkio never says that they lost their magic from not using it. He says that they lost their magic because they abused it.

That'd mean that some Zealians still kept their magic after the fall, since none of them abused it.
All they did was drain more energy of Lavos, but not abuse their own powers for evil or whatever. Could he be talking about the mystics? Or does this mean that some Zealians kept their magic, but peolpe like

Spekkio said people were not allowed to use magic anymore (other than Wizards).  FACT.  It means that little Johnny Zeal Survivor won't get taught magic like daddy and mommy did.

Dalton who tried to rule, lost it? But then, how do people just lose magic? I wouldn't be surprised if Crono lost magic since using it against an army to enhilate them would be a abuse of a gift.

In the original timeline, Dalton either died at the Ocean Palace, or was overthrown.  But here is a GREAT piece of evidence that proves people don't magically loose their magical powers from abusing their magic to take out armys and such:

MAGUS.  MYSTIC WAR. MAGIC.

Thank you.

I guess. But you see, Dalton's only power was his Magic. As was Zeals, as was Magus. Crono has no need to focus on magic alone, since he has his sword and that is his greatest strength. Dalton used magic because he was a coward like most Zealians and didn't want to get his hands dirty/
Magus used his magic more than anything, and his scythe may have been almost ornimental to make him look like a bad-ass grim reaper like foe that people would fear but know that he is powerful.
I wouldn't expect Crono to take advantage of his power to kill thousands upon thousands of men. Maybe he couldn't, and thats why the fall happened and they had to retreat Oo

[Sentenal]

I guess. But you see, Dalton's only power was his Magic. As was Zeals, as was Magus. Crono has no need to focus on magic alone, since he has his sword and that is his greatest strength. Dalton used magic because he was a coward like most Zealians and didn't want to get his hands dirty/

Who said he would focus on magic alone?  All I've been asking is why would he squander his magic?  Why can't he practice swordsmenship and some magic?  And why would he somehow forget all his magic, even a simple spell like Lightning 1, within a relatively short timeframe of -5 years?

[Zaperking]

I guess. But you see, Dalton's only power was his Magic. As was Zeals, as was Magus. Crono has no need to focus on magic alone, since he has his sword and that is his greatest strength. Dalton used magic because he was a coward like most Zealians and didn't want to get his hands dirty/

Who said he would focus on magic alone?  All I've been asking is why would he squander his magic?  Why can't he practice swordsmenship and some magic?  And why would he somehow forget all his magic, even a simple spell like Lightning 1, within a relatively short timeframe of -5 years?

It depends how complicated spells are. From what we've seen outside of the battle system, casting a spell takes a relatively short while, but not to fast either. In battle though, they still need to consentrate, cast the spell and make sure it gets there. Seen that hand action that Magus does when Dark Matter is cased? Or how Lucca pretty much flys up when shes casting a fire spell, or how Marle closes her eyes to consentrate/remember the spell as she resites it?

I'm not saying that he'd forget it, but that he wouldn't need it anymore. What good use is lightning when theres nothing to use it on. Basically, they're supposed to live a peaceful life, and that's all that they know of the history of time which that passed. They don't know that Porre will rise, so that assumption may make them think that training is kind of futile. Crono's best interests would probably be swordfighting since that is his hobby, and Marle - in a time of peace.

[Sentenal]

It depends how complicated spells are. From what we've seen outside of the battle system, casting a spell takes a relatively short while, but not to fast either. In battle though, they still need to consentrate, cast the spell and make sure it gets there. Seen that hand action that Magus does when Dark Matter is cased? Or how Lucca pretty much flys up when shes casting a fire spell, or how Marle closes her eyes to consentrate/remember the spell as she resites it?

No, this doesn't explain why he would squander magic.

I'm not saying that he'd forget it, but that he wouldn't need it anymore. What good use is lightning when theres nothing to use it on. Basically, they're supposed to live a peaceful life, and that's all that they know of the history of time which that passed. They don't know that Porre will rise, so that assumption may make them think that training is kind of futile. Crono's best interests would probably be swordfighting since that is his hobby, and Marle - in a time of peace.

Do you want me to go back through this entire thread, and copy and paste every time you said Crono lost, or they lost, their magical powers?  You ARE saying he forgot, or lost the ability, to use magic.

And no, you still havn't explained why he would squander it.  You know why?  Because he wouldn't.  Your arguement is futile.

[Zaperking]

It depends how complicated spells are. From what we've seen outside of the battle system, casting a spell takes a relatively short while, but not to fast either. In battle though, they still need to consentrate, cast the spell and make sure it gets there. Seen that hand action that Magus does when Dark Matter is cased? Or how Lucca pretty much flys up when shes casting a fire spell, or how Marle closes her eyes to consentrate/remember the spell as she resites it?

No, this doesn't explain why he would squander magic.

I'm not saying that he'd forget it, but that he wouldn't need it anymore. What good use is lightning when theres nothing to use it on. Basically, they're supposed to live a peaceful life, and that's all that they know of the history of time which that passed. They don't know that Porre will rise, so that assumption may make them think that training is kind of futile. Crono's best interests would probably be swordfighting since that is his hobby, and Marle - in a time of peace.

Do you want me to go back through this entire thread, and copy and paste every time you said Crono lost, or they lost, their magical powers?  You ARE saying he forgot, or lost the ability, to use magic.

And no, you still havn't explained why he would squander it.  You know why?  Because he wouldn't.  Your arguement is futile.

Lol, Your not even reading my post. I already posted in my previous post 3 reasons why. and yet you haven't picked them up.

Why would Crono squander it?
- Because it's not need it.
- Because he has no time to practise it.
- Because he cannot practise it anywhere safe.
- Because he has more things to do, like with Marle.
- Because it's weakened.

Evidently, You're saying that Crono would keep it up, yet Guardia fell, that kind of shows that Crono either didn't show up, or couldn't do anything to prevent it. Which goes back to the fact that they are mortal, and that they probably did not use magic. Crono isn't the one who needs magic, and from his abuse, and from what Spekkio said, it'd dissapear. He's no wizard.... Lucca, on the other hand would be the most likely to need it in her research, though she probably did not use it for whatever reasons either.

[GrayLensman]

I'd like to point out that, in the game, Spekkio never says that they lost their magic from not using it. He says that they lost their magic because they abused it.

That'd mean that some Zealians still kept their magic after the fall, since none of them abused it.
All they did was drain more energy of Lavos, but not abuse their own powers for evil or whatever. Could he be talking about the mystics? Or does this mean that some Zealians kept their magic, but peolpe like

Spekkio said people were not allowed to use magic anymore (other than Wizards).  FACT.  It means that little Johnny Zeal Survivor won't get taught magic like daddy and mommy did.

"Wizards" was a translation error.  Spekkio originally meant the Mystics kept their magical ability.  Humans probably had to be taught to use magic.  After Zeal fell, the survivors lost this capability, so magical talent were lost.  It was the fall of Zeal which was the result of humans abusing their power.  Note that Dalton's power did not disappear after Zeal fell and the Mammon Machine was disabled.

[Sentenal]

Why would Crono squander it?
- Because it's not need it.
- Because he has no time to practise it.
- Because he cannot practise it anywhere safe.
- Because he has more things to do, like with Marle.
- Because it's weakened.

1.) No, he needed to defend country.
2.) No, thats a BS assumtion.
3.) No, thats idiotic.
4.) No, hes not screwing Marle 24/7.
5.) No, thats both a BS assumtion and idiotic.

Evidently, You're saying that Crono would keep it up, yet Guardia fell, that kind of shows that Crono either didn't show up, or couldn't do anything to prevent it. Which goes back to the fact that they are mortal, and that they probably did not use magic. Crono isn't the one who needs magic, and from his abuse, and from what Spekkio said, it'd dissapear. He's no wizard.... Lucca, on the other hand would be the most likely to need it in her research, though she probably did not use it for whatever reasons either.

Okay, its time for "screw being nice.  Lets get started...

Evidently, You're saying that Crono would keep it up, yet Guardia fell, that kind of shows that Crono either didn't show up, or couldn't do anything to prevent it.

Did you figure that all out by yourself?  They were involved in some incident.  Thats all we know.

Which goes back to the fact that they are mortal, and that they probably did not use magic.

Who the hell said they weren't mortal!  And how the hell does being mortal mean they can't use magic!?  Crono was certainly mortal when Lavos killed him!  And guess what!?  He used magic then!

Crono isn't the one who needs magic, and from his abuse, and from what Spekkio said, it'd dissapear.

He DOES need magic to defend his country!  Your insane if you think using magic abuses it!  And I'll say this agian about Magic not disappearing simply because its 'abused'.

MAGUS!  MYSTIC WAR!  MAGIC!  SAD FACES!

Magic does NOT disappear because its abused.  It was abused, so people were not ALLOWED to use it.

Give up Zaper, you have lost!

"Wizards" was a translation error. Spekkio originally meant the Mystics kept their magical ability. Humans probably had to be tought to use magic. After Zeal fell, the survivors lost this capability, so magical talent were lost. It was the fall of Zeal which was the result of humans abusing their power. Note that Dalton's power did not disappear after Zeal fell and the Mammon Machine was disabled.

Then Spekkio was saying that Humans and Mystics are that same species?

[GrayLensman]

Lol, Your not even reading my post. I already posted in my previous post 3 reasons why. and yet you haven't picked them up.

Why would Crono squander it?
- Because it's not need it.
- Because he has no time to practise it.
- Because he cannot practise it anywhere safe.
- Because he has more things to do, like with Marle.
- Because it's weakened.

• Crono would use his abilities if there was a natural disaster or emergency where he could save lives.
• Since the King had little or no authority in 1000 AD, Crono would have few obligations.  Crono's occasional public appearances would leave ample time for other pursuits.
• Crono could easily travel to an uninhabited area to practice magic.
• Crono and Marle would probably practice magic together.
• Nothing suggests that Crono's powers would be significantly weakened.[/list:u]
  
  

  Evidently, You're saying that Crono would keep it up, yet Guardia fell, that kind of shows that Crono either didn't show up, or couldn't do anything to prevent it. Which goes back to the fact that they are mortal, and that they probably did not use magic. Crono isn't the one who needs magic, and from his abuse, and from what Spekkio said, it'd dissapear. He's no wizard.... Lucca, on the other hand would be the most likely to need it in her research, though she probably did not use it for whatever reasons either.

  
  
  The fall of Guardia and the status of the time travelers were not explained in Chrono Cross by any means.  When questioned about it, Masato Kato hinted that Porre was influenced by something outside the time-line and that the time travelers were involved in an "incident."  It doesn't matter how powerful Crono and Marle are, since the nature of this incident is completely ambiguous.

[Sentenal]

I don't know the original said, but here is what I'm thinking of:

Long before you were born... there was a kingdom
where magic flourished.  Everyone there could use it!  But in time, people
began to abuse their powers.  It got so bad that no one was allowed to use
magic except wizards.

You said that 'wizards' was a mistranslation, and should be 'mystics', so should look like this:

Long before you were born... there was a kingdom
where magic flourished.  Everyone there could use it!  But in time, people
began to abuse their powers.  It got so bad that no one was allowed to use
magic except [mystics].

If thats how the japanese quote looks properly translated, then it would be implying mystics and humans are the same, would it not?

If thats not what the properly translated japanese quote looks like, could you please post what exactly it says?

[ZeaLitY]

A zillion years before you brats were born... There was a kingdom where magic thrived. In that world, everybody could use it.
But that kingdom drowned in its own power...
Since then, people haven't been able to use magic. Well, except for the Mystics, right?

Translation by datenshi.

[Zaperking]

Give up Zaper, you have lost!

Thank God we have more mature people on this forum, like Gray and less of the kiddies who have issues in real life and they take it out on others over the internet >.>

On the note of the incident, the Ultimania FAQ says this:
"In addition to that, they say that they 'do not exist in this time axis,' and appearing as illusions, it hints that they are already deceased."

So in that case, Whatever happened, Crono and Marle sure didn't have enough power to survive...

The strange thing about Spekkio's quote is that the Mystics should have been innate and the Zealians weren't. Monsters are supposed to have arcane magic, but Magus' was at a higher level. If this "abuse" of magic was so serious, then how can one restrict magic to only Mystics? It'd have to be derived from the same source if one race could not use it anymore, and the other still could.

Now as for Crono..
You cannot say that he would keep up his magic to "defend the country". Just like it is written in the encyclopedia, 1000AD was said to be the most peaceful time in all of CT. Heck, no one would have expected Porre to become a powerful military state, so how can you say that Crono would need to defend his country if there was nothing that would pose a threat against Guardia in a time of peace.
And you can't say he "needs magic", since he was doing very well without it since he was born, up till the time Spekkio actually gave it to them. Magic simply gave them an advantage over the Mystics and the Zealians. But as that other Zealian said, their powers are primative anyway.

And from how King Guardia was always addressing Marle that she had to be proper all the time, it seems as if the public is very well informed about their doings, so I wouldn't put off the idea that they'd be doing a lot of public events and such.

Man, I swear... Crono is the most underveloped character in the series, probably more than the 40-so other characters in CC. Atleast they have a backstory. Crono is just some hick who found a princess, had to save her, and got magic one day.

Note that Dalton's power did not disappear after Zeal fell and the Mammon Machine was disabled.

That's kind of annoying. What would make him so special, that his magic did not get turned off. I'd see why Schala, Zeal's and Magus' magic did not die out, but Daltons... Heck, from what happened to the Zealians, Crono and co's magic should be lost since it was primitive anyway. Though, thats why Spekkio's quote is soo annoying. And you can't blame me from infering it wrong, atleast i'm using game evidence.

[Sentenal]

On the note of the incident, the Ultimania FAQ says this:
"In addition to that, they say that they 'do not exist in this time axis,' and appearing as illusions, it hints that they are already deceased."

So in that case, Whatever happened, Crono and Marle sure didn't have enough power to survive...

Ultimania=not canon.

The strange thing about Spekkio's quote is that the Mystics should have been innate and the Zealians weren't. Monsters are supposed to have arcane magic, but Magus' was at a higher level. If this "abuse" of magic was so serious, then how can one restrict magic to only Mystics? It'd have to be derived from the same source if one race could not use it anymore, and the other still could.

By not teaching it anymore to innates.

Now as for Crono..
You cannot say that he would keep up his magic to "defend the country". Just like it is written in the encyclopedia, 1000AD was said to be the most peaceful time in all of CT. Heck, no one would have expected Porre to become a powerful military state, so how can you say that Crono would need to defend his country if there was nothing that would pose a threat against Guardia in a time of peace.

Are you trying to tell me that one day, Porre magically invaded Guardia and Guardia didn't have the slightest idea of what was going on?  Porre likely defeated Guardia in both the Keystone 1 and Keystone 2 timeline.  We as players play before Keystone 1 in CT (Keystone 1 is the result of CT), and played during Keystone 2 in CC.  We have no idea how noticable Porre's rise was in those two timelines.  Its very inlikely that a small port town like Porre could rise and overthrow the greatest power in the world in only 5 years.  More than likely, changes in the timeline for Keystone 1 had Porre being more powerful, for longer prior to 1000ad.

And you can't say he "needs magic", since he was doing very well without it since he was born, up till the time Spekkio actually gave it to them. Magic simply gave them an advantage over the Mystics and the Zealians. But as that other Zealian said, their powers are primative anyway.

1.) Crono wasn't defender of Guardia before he married Marle, so of course he wouldn't need it before then.
2.) Spekkio didn't GIVE them anything.
3.) Zealians were stuck-up elitest, they had stopped using elemental magic in favor of Lavos magic.  That line stems from a biaseness on the Zealian's part.

And from how King Guardia was always addressing Marle that she had to be proper all the time, it seems as if the public is very well informed about their doings, so I wouldn't put off the idea that they'd be doing a lot of public events and such.

Roles of a Prince and Princess are different, like the traditional roles of men and women.

[AuraTwilight]

Thank God we have more mature people on this forum, like Gray and less of the kiddies who have issues in real life and they take it out on others over the internet >.>

Hypocrite >_> Anyway...

On the note of the incident, the Ultimania FAQ says this:
"In addition to that, they say that they 'do not exist in this time axis,' and appearing as illusions, it hints that they are already deceased."

So in that case, Whatever happened, Crono and Marle sure didn't have enough power to survive...

Not canon. And even if it was, the "different time axis" thing would suggest they were from an alternate timeline like the Reptilian one.

The strange thing about Spekkio's quote is that the Mystics should have been innate and the Zealians weren't. Monsters are supposed to have arcane magic, but Magus' was at a higher level. If this "abuse" of magic was so serious, then how can one restrict magic to only Mystics? It'd have to be derived from the same source if one race could not use it anymore, and the other still could.

Hmm....let's see, raising a continent into the sky, warping with time-space dimensional boundaries to become immortal, befriending the Planet's greatest enemy....no, no abuse here. Not in comparison to petty warfare that's ultimately inconsequential to the planet.

Now as for Crono..
You cannot say that he would keep up his magic to "defend the country". Just like it is written in the encyclopedia, 1000AD was said to be the most peaceful time in all of CT. Heck, no one would have expected Porre to become a powerful military state, so how can you say that Crono would need to defend his country if there was nothing that would pose a threat against Guardia in a time of peace.
And you can't say he "needs magic", since he was doing very well without it since he was born, up till the time Spekkio actually gave it to them. Magic simply gave them an advantage over the Mystics and the Zealians. But as that other Zealian said, their powers are primative anyway.

Guardia was a peaceful country. What about the others? Surely they'd get jealous of Guardia's prosperity. It's generally a good idea to keep up a good army because you can't predict attacks. oh, and Zealians = don't know WTF they're talking about.

Man, I swear... Crono is the most underveloped character in the series, probably more than the 40-so other characters in CC. Atleast they have a backstory. Crono is just some hick who found a princess, had to save her, and got magic one day.

Yea, totally.

That's kind of annoying. What would make him so special, that his magic did not get turned off. I'd see why Schala, Zeal's and Magus' magic did not die out, but Daltons... Heck, from what happened to the Zealians, Crono and co's magic should be lost since it was primitive anyway. Though, thats why Spekkio's quote is soo annoying. And you can't blame me from infering it wrong, atleast i'm using game evidence.

Well, he was only Queen Zeal's most TRUSTED ADVISOR and all. It's not like A royal advisor isn't usually the younger sibling of the Crown. Perish the thought that Dalton is a noble. And Crono's magic was not primitive. Who better to learn it from then from Spekkio? Their magic was innate. The Zealians were stealing theirs from Lavos.

[Discoman]

Well maybe Crono was underveloped so people could feel like they are the main character.
         It is hard to understand why Guardia fell because it is not discussed to often. Infact for all we know Marle and Crono were off on holiday, and then Porre decided to attack. Remember Lynx was trusted by Porre, he could have gained this trust by supplying them with elements.
       Maybe this also caused Porre having guns. But in the world there are fire crackers ( Ya know in the ending of CT), which uses gun powder.... so maybe a Porre scientist finally got the idea for a gun. Or they just stole designs from Lucca. Then after 4 years of productiopn, they had enough for their army. While Guardia not explecting conflict with a long time neighbor decided not to put funds in the military. I also suspect a dictatorship in Porre, considering it would be their only reason for an attack.

[Chrono'99]

It is hard to understand why Guardia fell because it is not discussed to often. Infact for all we know Marle and Crono were off on holiday, and then Porre decided to attack. Remember Lynx was trusted by Porre, he could have gained this trust by supplying them with elements.

Lynx wasn't "born" yet in 1,005AD. He came into being some time between 1,006AD (Wazuki's contact with FATE) and 1,010AD (Wazuki OR Lynx drowning Serge).