I have to side with GrayLensman - even if your comments on the appearance part are true, the function is funamentally different in RD compared to Chrono Cross. Furthermore, the Mammon Machine was made of dreamstone - the Guru of Life directly says this in Chrono Trigger.
The function is not different. It was used differently. The flame in both cases grants wishes, or gives enough power to do such things. Schala's dispair and thought that she was responsible for the whole incident triggered the flame into reincarnating her. The flame also teleported itself out of the crumbling palace >.> But the difference was that Lynx in RD said that combining the power of the Flame and the Time Egg would make one almost god like in controling time.
When you get to the point in academia where I am, putting two and two together isn't that simple. You need proof, and ample amounts of it
It wasn't meant to sound like a personal attack. I'm just saying that you can't just listen to one source of information. The only way to get true information is to combine that of the 3 games.
1&2) While I will agree that the Frozen Flame allowed humans to evolve, the way in which they evolve is questionable. Evidence from Chrono Trigger shows the people of Ioka and Laruba were fully human. Did they have the ability to use magic? No. This is where the Frozen Flame most likely came in.
Their bodies may have been fully human, but their brains were not, nor their comprehension of things. (as with Ayla saying that her head would go "boom" if Lucca talked about where they had come from".
3) This is very questionable, since Schala is directly connected to the Flame by the time Chrono Cross comes around. She is human, which means her qualities could have been represented in the Flame.
I'm not sure what you mean in that quote, or what it is directed at, sorry.
This quote of Belthasar's is very controversial. The fact of the matter is, the only difference between pre-flame contact and post-flame contact is the ability to use magic. Ayla was born before humans hyper-evolved and gained innate abilities to use magic, so she couldn't learn magic in Chrono Trigger. She was still human, however. In essence, she was like the Earthbound ones, who could not use magic. Were they still human? Yes. The only difference was they were not under Lavos' control and were not mutated by Lavos.
The Earthbound ones have evolved, not much physically, but x3 mentally. Their use of magic of why they cannot do it is unknown. Possibly they just don't know how to harness it, like the Earthbounds did. Could be a birth defect, who knows. And it was not about Lavos' control. Anyone over 3,000,000BC was mutated, probably. The Enlightened ones were not controlled by Lavos until the Mammon Machine was made and he was discovered. It was like someone had said in Zeal, the queen lost her soul overnight once she had discovered him and the thought of immortality.
The thing is, this does not make sense. Whether or not the Iokans and Larubans were able to understand their emotions at that time is much different from saying that love and hate weren't physically in humans at that time. The flame may have advanced humans' capabilities to manipulate the elements, but to say that it was because of the flame created emotion, which is something the Guru of Reason is doing in Chrono Cross (you're just using it as evidence), is something that contradicts other in-game evidence found in Chrono Trigger.
I'm not talking about the emotion, and I do not think that Belthasar means it too. I think it is the symbolism of how pathetic the humans are, and yet they live thanks to the flame and Lavos. Love and Hate can be directed at many things, but it is a quality that CC and the flame show. CC is pretty much all about Love and Hate. For one, the Tear of Love and Hate is the Chrono Cross. The good side of Schala and the dark side of Schala that was being taken over. Schala's will to survive and Lavos' will to destroy etc. It's all tied in.
This is not enough proof to say that the Frozen Flame was inside the Mammon Machine. The power she is talking about is the power of Lavos, and since the Flame is Lavos, it would make sense. Where does this make any statement or inference to the Flame being in the Mammon Machine or being used by the Zeal culture to draw out Lavos' energy?
The only game evidence of any civilization falling to it's knees thanks to the Frozen Flames power is Zeal. Zeal and most probably only Zeal. It would defeat the purpose if it was done again. The Mammon Machine was the cause that awoke Lavos. Schala was the reason why the Mammon Machine was awaken. Since Luccia is talking about the Flame and Zeal, then it points towards the Mammon Machine and the Flame. Plus, Schala talks through the flame, I guess Oo. But as I said earlier, combining the evidence from 3 games, the Flame was in the mammon machine. It is stupid to think not. Do remember that RD is still in the Chrono world, and as long as the past history of the world is embeded in RD, then it is it. RD was also almost a prototype. Obviously, things like the einlanzer were changed to make it a key item, important in the plot. The FF did not change in status, and is still a major part of the CC storyline.
Its good to see someone else destroy Zaper's arguements.
I'd hate to see the Compendium sink with arrogant people like you.
That's an interesting thought. I think you're giving the power within the pendant, which is Lavos' power, too little credit. Remember that in Chrono Trigger, the pendant catalyzed the hatching of the Time Egg.
Don't forget what Gaspar or whoever said. The egg would only work depending on the amount of focus and love they had for Crono, and to have him come back to them.
Right - I wasn't trying to diminish the credibility of the Time Egg as a device that can cause space-time distortions. I just don't want the Pendant's power and capabilities to be disregarded.
I don't think anyone is disregarding it. Though, I'd rather say that the full power of the pendant can only and will only be accessed by Schala, and not some mediocore girl like Marle.
