Quote Digest

[tushantin]

I wouldn't assume that you were referring to my comments from the Sexism thread when you wrote that, but tushantin certainly was

Eh? Was I? I was referring to something else entirely, and I could quote you your very statement:

"You found my criticism overly serious, careless, insulting, and so forth. Ergo, your frustration."

Josh, seriously. Why are you so insecure and paranoid all of a sudden? Why do you keep thinking I'm out to get you? And now you think that quote was Alfy's "supposition" when he clearly copy/pasted from elsewhere?

[Lord J Esq]

He didn't write it, J.

Ah, the lack of a quote box got me. I thought he was paraphrasing. My mistake. To the extent the quote speaks for him, then my comments are still relevant. Otherwise, let them pass into the ether!

~~~ ~~~ ~~~

Why do you keep thinking I'm out to get you?

Tush, because you keep doing that, and apparently think that it constitutes an effective rhetoric, let me remind you: You are the one who thinks I am out to get you. I made that comment first, and you have mimicked it back at me several times now. To the extent you are out to get me at all, it is because you are having maturity problems dealing with criticism which you have perceived as an affront to whatever system of worth by which you measure yourself. I won't attempt yet to assess your whole character, since really I know very little about you, but your childishness here, your thoughtlessness, your passive-aggressiveness, and your thoroughly unlikable tone are all very much areas of your personality in need of considerable improvement.

Mimicry is middle school stuff. I don't think anyone on this forum is stupid enough to fall for such puerile taunting tactics, let alone me. You don't even believe most of the things you're saying about me, because, as soon as I make a positive comment in your direction, you bring out the flattery and the sycophancy. Of course, I don't enjoy that any more than this.

Don't you have a mode of interacting with people as a mature adult? Or are you resolved to live out our worst impressions of you?

[tushantin]

Tush, because you keep doing that, and apparently think that it constitutes an effective rhetoric, let me remind you: You are the one who thinks I am out to get you.

Meh, if thinking that really does satisfy your nervousness then fine. Whatever. Happy now? Want a cup cake?

[Lord J Esq]

I would love a cupcake. Raspberry, please, with whipped cream frosting and sprinkles! But no poison. I know YOU'RE OUT TO GET ME!



WAAAAAHHH!!

[Katie Skyye]

My word you guys...! It's one thing when it's heated discussion between individuals (biased or not), but...this is just ridiculous. You guys (Tush, Josh) are escalating to an entirely different level. And it doesn't matter which one of you started it, or who is prolonging it, or who is right or reasonable--if you really have to argue "who said what first" and "you're out to get me," then you should settle it privately...

...that's my opinion. It's not that I don't enjoy watching you argue, because Josh, you are incredibly silly and it's funny to watch you get frustrated, but it really doesn't add anything to the discussions when you completely stop talking about the subject in favor of arguing with each other.

[Truthordeal]

Don't listen to her! Katie's just out to get all of us, especially the Nus!

<_<

>_>

  Nus.

[Lord J Esq]

It's not that I don't enjoy watching you argue, because Josh, you are incredibly silly and it's funny to watch you get frustrated...

Silly like a fox!



I'm sorry I can't abide your request. Tushantin's misbehavior itself is easy enough to overlook, and I generally ignore his posts now (although I haven't over the past couple of days), but when he stakes out sexist positions or commits other egregious breaches, it's very relevant indeed to the discussion at hand.

I think you will understand that for yourself one day, if you should ever decide you feel strongly about something.

[Katie Skyye]

I think you will understand that for yourself one day, if you should ever decide you feel strongly about something.

Excuse me...?

Excuse me?!

I was merely commenting that YOUR RECENT POSTS had been COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC and only dedicated to arguing with each other and seeing who was out to get whom!

but when he stakes out sexist positions or commits other egregious breaches, it's very relevant indeed to the discussion at hand.

THIS IS PERFECTLY REASONABLE! WHEN your arguments are actually relevant and on-topic! But your last five posts have had nothing to do with sexism or anything else! They have merely been deconstructing each other's argumentative styles, lines of reasoning, and insulting each other! When it comes down to mud slinging and the topic at hand has been left by the wayside, THEN it is time to take it to a private discussion!

I am NOT, NOT suggesting that you should sacrifice intelligent discussion that is relevant to the topic, only that you do not devolve into petty squabbling! The same goes for Tushantin, who I am a little disappointed in for coming down to your level, Josh! Personal discussions over "Why Josh is so paranoid all of a sudden" should be privately carried out!

Don't think you can condescendingly tell me off, as if you know me personally! "I think you will understand that for yourself one day," as if I'm a small child with no knowledge of the world or misfortune? Who do you think you are? Who the hell do you think I am?!

I am trying to promote intelligent discussion, and your petty squabbling detracts from and interrupts the rest of the conversations trying to go on at the same time!

but tushantin certainly was--he is waging a passive-aggressive campaign now, incapable of behaving better than a child--and so let me address that, if I may.

Your wild accusations--regardless if they are true or not--completely derailed the current topic! It doesn't matter if he was indirectly referring to you or not. You can't possibly know for sure that he was, so you shouldn't go on a huge rant about it!

Eh? Was I? I was referring to something else entirely, and I could quote you your very statement:
"You found my criticism overly serious, careless, insulting, and so forth. Ergo, your frustration."
Josh, seriously. Why are you so insecure and paranoid all of a sudden? Why do you keep thinking I'm out to get you? And now you think that quote was Alfy's "supposition" when he clearly copy/pasted from elsewhere?

So, Tushantin had stated that he was not referring to you. It doesn't matter if he's lying. And I can understand why Tush then wondered aloud (so to speak) why you were being so ridiculous--as indeed you were! It didn't help matters any, but there you go. I don't condone Tush's actions any more than yours, however, Tushantin is by far more civil about things than you are--and I don't mean he doesn't state his opinions strongly! He is very well-spoken. You, on the other hand, turn everything into an angry tirade or a condescending sneer! The fact that you criticize his rhetoric and "behavior" as far as that can be assessed through text on a forum, when you, yourself, are extremely abrasive, even to a third-party observer (me! Because I try not to get involved too often in the discussions and so have no personal beef against anyone involved unless they are particularly horrid!)? Nonsense!

And Truthordeal, you are NOT HELPING by undermining my character! It doesn't even matter if you didn't mean it seriously! I was being serious and trying to stop this preposterous feud from interrupting everyone else! But no, you need to make light of what was in actuality a serious request from someone who likes to read discussion rather than personal arguments! You've really made it so much more difficult for me to make any difference! THANK YOU!

And, yes, I, too am contributing in derailing this topic! How ironic! You know what? I HAVE very strong opinions and feel very strongly about a lot of things, but I see no point in throwing my opinions all over the place, especially the internet! There's just no point! I am not going to change anyone else, and I don't need to! I just happen to enjoy reading intelligent discussion about current topics! Occasionally I will weigh in on a discussion or two (I did so just the other day, so it's not entirely unheard of), but I usually withdraw after a post or two because I am usually merely stating my opinion. I don't force it on anyone else, I simply state it. I don't think that everyone should be like me--feel free to foist your opinions and morals or feelings about whatever topic on everyone around you, and indeed, the entire internet. It's your right, and I enjoy reading them! But keep personal grievances PERSONAL. PRIVATE.
As I said, as much as I enjoy reading your arguments, they derail the topics they take place in! And I go to those topics to read about the latest in Compendium discussion, not about Tushantin x Josh drama! If you're feeling really charitable, you could start a topic just for yourselves to bicker on, so that I could read that when I want a laugh!

tl;dr: If you're going to fight each other instead of having an argument about the topic, do it privately or elsewhere.

It's a quote digest, right? Well you know what? Here!

Someday our enemies might win, but not today!

This is practically my favorite quote from anything ever! You don't have to discuss it, but here it is just in case!

[Sajainta]

We need to make books cool again.  If you go home with somebody and they don’t have books, don’t fuck them.

[Truthordeal]

And Truthordeal, you are NOT HELPING by undermining my character! It doesn't even matter if you didn't mean it seriously! I was being serious and trying to stop this preposterous feud from interrupting everyone else! But no, you need to make light of what was in actuality a serious request from someone who likes to read discussion rather than personal arguments! You've really made it so much more difficult for me to make any difference! THANK YOU!

Calm down, Katie. Take a step back and reassess what's going on. I realize that you're upset about the situation and you're annoyed by the arguing and back-and-forth. I was too. Still am, somewhat, but you need to understand that this is often what happens in a community filled with robust personalities with very different worldviews. I don't necessarily like seeing a thread that tush or J have recently posted in and having the preeminent though be "Here we go again," but it's part of the group dynamic, and one I've been unfortunate enough to contribute to from time to time.  

Now we can handle these types of situations a couple of ways: 1) we can ask them to stop and take it to PMs, or 2) You can try humor to diffuse the situation, which is what J and I attempted in this case. Method 1 usually works fairly well because of the mutual respect most of us have on this board. So long as you're not asking J to take it easy on someone, which I think he thinks you did, then the warring factions usually oblige. But personally, I prefer the humor approach. It's far more pleasant, and can bring heated tempers down really quickly. It also gives the people squabbling a taste of their own preposterity(it's a word now). So please understand that I wasn't trying to undermine your character or your request. I was just trying to bring down the emotional temperature a bit and in doing so had some fun at your expense. I re-read what I wrote and I guess I came off as a bit patronizing, and I'm sorry for that. No buts on my behalf. My post was ill-timed and probably a bit too facetious. Sorry.

[Katie Skyye]

Even if it was completely innocent...actually, considering your motives, I will retract that part of my statement.

However, the rest remains.

[Lord J Esq]

You're right. I owe you an apology for implying that you have no strong convictions. I apologize for that. I even knew when I wrote it that I was making that implication, even though I suspected it was unlikely that you don't have any such convictions. For that, a more serious apology is in order. I apologize for that as well.

Now, what I will not accept from you, nor from anyone, is to be told to essentially "sit down and shut up" so that you can enjoy your peaceful blissful world where everyone gets along because no one is willing to stand up for their convictions when fools like tush come along to promote ideas which will spoil the lives of others.

You will entrust and respect people to decide for themselves what is important to them. This forum does not exist for your amusement. We are told all our lives by well-meaning people to "stand up for what we believe in." But when some of us actually try to do that, and people like you give us hell for it--for standing by our principles when it would be so much nicer and easier and more polite to just shut up and talk about something non-controversial--it sends a message that, really, people should point whichever way the wind is blowing.

I know that is not what you really want, so take a moment to contemplate your stance.

[Katie Skyye]

Now, what I will not accept from you, nor from anyone, is to be told to essentially "sit down and shut up" so that you can enjoy your peaceful blissful world where everyone gets along because no one is willing to stand up for their convictions when fools like tush come along to promote ideas which will spoil the lives of others...
I know that is not what you really want, so take a moment to contemplate your stance.

I was not telling you to sit down and shut up, nor do I live in a "blissful world where everyone gets along" because the reason I go to these certain forums is to see intelligent discussion by people who are most of the time not getting along. Just because I don't feel the need to prove that I have opinions by posting them on the internet, doesn't mean I don't have them, and it doesn't mean that you can't have them.

I am also fine with you "standing up" to Tush when it relates to the topic at hand. When it relates to the topic at hand. When it relates to the topic at hand.
But when you get off-topic and turn to mud-slinging, as I've said multiple times already, then it needs to move elsewhere. I don't care how much you guys insult each other as long as there's some discussion of the topic, but that was not happening in your most recent posts.

But when some of us actually try to do that, and people like you give us hell for it--for standing by our principles when it would be so much nicer and easier and more polite to just shut up and talk about something non-controversial--it sends a message that, really, people should point whichever way the wind is blowing.

Again, I am not saying you should stop discussing whatever controversial thing or topic you were discussing! Feel free to beat it to death! Get mad! Stand up for your opinions...in the context of the discussion!
Don't abandon the topic altogether in favor of insulting your opponent out of context!

And I'll state again my stance: It's fine to disagree, it's fine to argue, it's even fine to insult as long as it relates to the discussion. It is not okay to start bashing each other and having a private spat in a topic meant for public discussion.
An analogy that is in no way meant to be taken literally: A (dating)couple having a fight in the middle of debate club. Yes, the environment is meant for heated debate, but not the kind they're having!

"so take a moment to contemplate your stance." If you think that I'd write a big post like that without thoroughly contemplating my stance, you are quite mistaken.

There are other things in your post (and indeed, all of your posts) that I could argue with, but it's just not relevant and it's bad enough that I'm still talking about this at all.

[Lord J Esq]

You don't get it, do you?

I don't like bickering wish tushantin. Indeed, I try and ignore him when I can. I admit I have not held to that very well in the last couple of days, since a lot of ink has been spilled in the Sexism thread and elsewhere. Unfortunately, there are relevant details to be addressed, and an immature person at the heart of the them.

I know the saying, "Don't wrestle with a pig. You get dirty and the pig loves it." I am well aware of the point you are trying to make. I don't claim infallible judgment, but for the most part I have stuck to the issue at hand. Sometimes tushantin's misbehavior becomes a part of the issue. This is not superfluous stuff, for the most part. He has made inappropriate comments here on the forums and has offended more than one Compendiumite, myself included. His reaction to all of this is to behave like a little kid, copy and paste my sentences and fling them back at me. I am well aware that I am not going to reach through to him, with an attitude like his. Nor am I trying at this point. He is a lost cause. I leave him to more patient folks.

What I am trying to do is live and communicate consistently when ethical injustices present themselves. Sometimes that entails dealing with foolish people who behave badly. You are not the first person to complain that your precious forum decorum has been disturbed, and you are not the first to give short-shrift to the realities and necessities of true, honest, principled communication. While I would very much like it if people like tush did not come around here, they do, and so that is the world we live in. Indeed, people like that make the population swell. Social interaction takes many forms, many of them unpleasant, yet that is the way it is and we either live with that or we live in denial of it.

If you continue to see this as nothing more than a petty squabble, then you are making a very crucial mistake in reading the development of events. I don't get any joy from being taunted by tush--at most the occasional laugh when his efforts rise to the level of ridiculousness--and I don't enjoy confrontations either. But I do what I must. Register your disdain all you like. I do not accept it. I would much prefer you put some of that intellect of yours to better use and approach these sorts of problems from a less self-absorbed position.

[tushantin]

Katie's got a vivid style of putting her posts together, doesn't she? XD (It's a compliment, BTW)

Something tells me that Josh is trying to subliminally "threaten" me to submit, lest he tells tells everyone about my "offenses". His eagerness in holding my records against me is a low and pathetic strategy, and it only goes to show that he feels threatened by clear reasoning and foreign ideas, and thus his paranoia and insecurity. Let me spill it out for you, aye, Josh?

The only person I remember "offending" is Sajainta, and that was out of failure in communication, unintentional, and out of hesitation and approval. I never said anything wrong then and I'm willing to testify because my thoughts were beneficial for social security research. The reason I haven't justified my actions yet is because if she was hurt unintentionally and if I'm responsible then all I know is that I ought to redeem myself for my mistakes, and I'm willing to atone even now.

The same goes for Tushantin, who I am a little disappointed in for coming down to your level, Josh! Personal discussions over "Why Josh is so paranoid all of a sudden" should be privately carried out!

Well, he is paranoid! XD

Ahahah! I'm glad our bickering amused you. You're right, though, it actually did get out of hand. Josh may take an immature approach when it comes to debates and he ends up personally insulting those who so much as raise a question against it, but at least I ought to be more mature and take a step back. Thank you for your time, and I very much appreciate your feelings. I promise this needless charade will end soon.

Don't think you can condescendingly tell me off, as if you know me personally! "I think you will understand that for yourself one day," as if I'm a small child with no knowledge of the world or misfortune?

He always does that, don't worry. Notice how he says I "promote ideas" when I clearly haven't shared anything in detail yet, and how he asks you to "shut up" without respecting your views and claims he wouldn't. Most of the time his statements are meaningless blather and nothing else, so just listen from one ear and toss it out the other. That's what the rest of the Compendium does, because chances are he'll accuse and insult you too if you don't agree with him.

I admire your ability to keep a clear nose and not get involved in feuds that may allow potential accusers and predators to target you. But, as I said before, Katie, your opinions are yours and they are very much valuable. Don't let any doohickey discourage you from speaking, especially when it's important.

Now, back to the topic at hand.

An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.