A view of CC...

[Julford]

I feel rather silly for asking this, but... What the hell. Why not.

I've been trying to follow the story of the Chrono games since CC came out way back when. I was, admitedly, very confused at first, and was one of those who thought "This game sucks!" I liked the battle system, but got lost in the story.

I've read the CC Plot summary thingie twice now, as well as a good chunk of the different section's on how the timeline's work and how they're affected, due to certain actions taken during CC.

One thing that bugs me though, is how depressing CC's story is, even compared to CT...

In CT, your group is trying to SAVE the future. You travel across time, originally trying to stop the planet's destroyer from ever being created, then ultimately trying to kill said destroyer.

However, in CC, Serge is trying to keep himself alive, thus dooming the future. Also, if we assume that a "complete" game (Getting all Lvl 7 techs is my main focus here) is the true ending used for future Chrono games, then you destroy an entire race (Dwarves), and nearly destroy another (Faeries).  It seems like the few moments of happiness are replaced by an overwhelming attitude of sadness. Serge is constantly being used during the game (Getting to Ft. Dragonia, the six Dragons), and still continues to fight on, though he's been told that his existence dooms humanity.

I would just like to know if I've gotten this mixed up in some sort of way... CC is so depressing, what with Lucca and Robo being crushed, I'm just hoping that I don't understand CC as well as I think I do.

[AuraTwilight]

Here's some advice: Don't read the newer Harry Potter books.

[fxar99]

Julford... One of the meanings of Chrono Cross is the choice between your life and the world (Harle asks this question at some point, for her). Another meaning is that some need to be sacrified (Dwarves, Fairies), so that we can achieve something great. No pain, no gain.

Aura, what do you mean?  

[Zaperking]

Julford... One of the meanings of Chrono Cross is the choice between your life and the world (Harle asks this question at some point, for her). Another meaning is that some need to be sacrified (Dwarves, Fairies), so that we can achieve something great. No pain, no gain.

Aura, what do you mean?  

Aura may have meant like how the last 2 books are depressing.

[CyberSarkany]

The "real" world seems much more depressing sometimes...

[Mystik3eb]

Since no one seems to want to truly answer his concern, I will.

Belthasar conducted CC like an orchestra. Everything went according to his plan. And yes, it's true, you win some you lose some. But just because Serge was kept alive didn't mean that others died. In the end, when you save Schala, the two dimensions are merged, and everyone is overall more happy...except the dwarves, I guess.

Yeah, CC is much more sad, but in the end it's quite happy! Since Schala's interference with guiding Serge to the Frozen Flame 14 years previous...didn't happen, Lynx never happened, Wazuki didn't die, Miguel was still at home, all that jazz. Meaning Lucca wasn't killed/captured by Lynx. In the end, all wrongs were made right, and they could live their lives right.

Much happier than you thought, right?

The Harry Potter books are great.

[GrayLensman]

Belthasar conducted CC like an orchestra. Everything went according to his plan. And yes, it's true, you win some you lose some. But just because Serge was kept alive didn't mean that others died. In the end, when you save Schala, the two dimensions are merged, and everyone is overall more happy...except the dwarves, I guess.

Those lousy Dwarves got what they deserved.  Yeah, that's right.

[Julford]

Yeah, CC is much more sad, but in the end it's quite happy! Since Schala's interference with guiding Serge to the Frozen Flame 14 years previous...didn't happen, Lynx never happened, Wazuki didn't die, Miguel was still at home, all that jazz. Meaning Lucca wasn't killed/captured by Lynx. In the end, all wrongs were made right, and they could live their lives right.

Much happier than you thought, right?

So the end justified the means?

That was something else that bothered me; HOW did Belthasar know all this? Or more specifically, how did he know that Schala could/would re-write history, saving as many people as she could?

Maybe I've just misunderstood Belthasar's role in CC. Perhaps one of you could better explain it too me?

[Zaperking]

Yeah, CC is much more sad, but in the end it's quite happy! Since Schala's interference with guiding Serge to the Frozen Flame 14 years previous...didn't happen, Lynx never happened, Wazuki didn't die, Miguel was still at home, all that jazz. Meaning Lucca wasn't killed/captured by Lynx. In the end, all wrongs were made right, and they could live their lives right.

Much happier than you thought, right?

So the end justified the means?

That was something else that bothered me; HOW did Belthasar know all this? Or more specifically, how did he know that Schala could/would re-write history, saving as many people as she could?

Maybe I've just misunderstood Belthasar's role in CC. Perhaps one of you could better explain it too me?

1) Belthasar just knows everything. He has foresight (Even the Missing Piece Consept Book says that he has the power to know all things in time) or something along the lines.

2) He didn't know that Schala can rewrite history. I don't know where Mystik3eb got that assumption, but it's not stated that time is rewritten from 1006AD. If anything, everything is remerged in 1020AD after the TD is defeated. Beings that are alive in one world will exist in the unified one. Things like FATE and the Dragon God which are dead in both worlds will cease to exist. The Dwarves live happily in one world (I think), same with the fairies. And that may apply to Lucca, since there is no reason why she is dead in Home World. So now, they'll all live in the same harmonious world.

That power was triggered by the Chrono Cross (Which has the power to unify things, the power to transfer memories and the power to unify beings).

There's only one discreprency. And that is with Schala/Kid.

It's implied that Kid and Schala merged, as seen with the weird way that Schala talks at the end of the game, but then when she's writting her book, Kid's personality is gone except for the Schala 'Kid' Zeal part.

Personally, I don't think that wedding picture means to much. It may be a tribute to the Radical Dreamers Kid/Serge marriage consept, or just a picture that they wanted to put in as homage to the original designs.

The journal that Schala writes implies that she will look for Serge, in any time, in any reality, but they man not know who they are (anyone think this mirrors the Magil/Kid consept?). The important part is that she writes "my friend" not her love or anything that points to such a way. I myself see the relationship only brotherly/sisterly. If anything, Only Kid will get together with Serge, and Schala herself would look for Magus. At the end of the game, we do see Kid going away on a ship by herself, even though Schala is standing on a beach, probably watching her sail away or something.

It's sad that the whole consept wasn't explained fully >.<

[AuraTwilight]

Aura may have meant like how the last 2 books are depressing.

Even Harry Potter 4 was kinda depressing. Jesus ._. Growing up with the readers indeed. Gimme my cheery Sorceror's Stone setting T_T

So the end justified the means?

When the "end" is preventing all time and space from ever existing in the history of infinity, yea, I guess killing a few dwarves and fairies is worth it.

That was something else that bothered me; HOW did Belthasar know all this? Or more specifically, how did he know that Schala could/would re-write history, saving as many people as she could?

He had a computer that can see through time. (FATE) Or maybe he called up Gaspar or something.

[GrayLensman]

Yeah, CC is much more sad, but in the end it's quite happy! Since Schala's interference with guiding Serge to the Frozen Flame 14 years previous...didn't happen, Lynx never happened, Wazuki didn't die, Miguel was still at home, all that jazz. Meaning Lucca wasn't killed/captured by Lynx. In the end, all wrongs were made right, and they could live their lives right.

Much happier than you thought, right?

So the end justified the means?

That was something else that bothered me; HOW did Belthasar know all this? Or more specifically, how did he know that Schala could/would re-write history, saving as many people as she could?

Maybe I've just misunderstood Belthasar's role in CC. Perhaps one of you could better explain it too me?

Belthasar is omniscient.  Chrono Cross suggests that every event in the game was preordained by Belthasar in order to save Schala.  There is little or no explanation as to how he accomplished this feat.

As for the previous question: do the ends justify the means?

I'd say that the heinous acts perpetrated by Belthasar were an acceptable trade-off for the preservation of all space-time.  However, I still think that Belthasar was an insane megalomaniac.  He outright lied to Serge and never mentioned it when the truth was later revealed.  He refers to the founding of Chronopolis with pride!

[Mystik3eb]

2) He didn't know that Schala can rewrite history. I don't know where Mystik3eb got that assumption, but it's not stated that time is rewritten from 1006AD.

How about Schala mentioning in the ending how they would all go back to where they were before the whole thing began and wouldn't remember anything. I take that to mean that what had been done because of Schala's involvement while imprisoned in Lavos would be undone, while somehow at the same time merging the two dimensions in a way that...pretty much makes everyone happy. So...kind of a combination of the two. And not just the two dimensions, but the two timelines where Schala either was involved, or wasn't...get what I'm saying?

Well, it makes sense to me. Schala's so fucking powerful, right?

And yeah, those dwarves were damned dirty. Someone needed to spank them into submission.

[Zaperking]

2) He didn't know that Schala can rewrite history. I don't know where Mystik3eb got that assumption, but it's not stated that time is rewritten from 1006AD.

How about Schala mentioning in the ending how they would all go back to where they were before the whole thing began and wouldn't remember anything. I take that to mean that what had been done because of Schala's involvement while imprisoned in Lavos would be undone, while somehow at the same time merging the two dimensions in a way that...pretty much makes everyone happy. So...kind of a combination of the two. And not just the two dimensions, but the two timelines where Schala either was involved, or wasn't...get what I'm saying?

Well, it makes sense to me. Schala's so fucking powerful, right?

And yeah, those dwarves were damned dirty. Someone needed to spank them into submission.

I'll agree on one proven thing - Schala is hella powerful. To bad we didn't get to fully see it out in CT.

Anyway, the ending quote was probably meaning that since the dimensions are remerging, nobody should remember anything, for the sake that their lives will be normal.

Even if not, time should be reversed to the start of 1020AD, and the dimensions get remerged then. But that way, The Dragon God will exist and so will FATE, but there may not be a flame since Lavos is finally destroyed. It mucks it up.

Also, yeah, Belthasar is omniscient. That's what hes pretty much described as. He did it all by himself, and only by himself. FATE was designed as a part of it. He did not use FATE to find out anything. FATE itself would have known it's doom, and would have prevented it at all costs earlier then. The point of Project Kid was so basically no body knew that they were being manipulated, or used or controlled. But FATE itself managed to see into the Dead Sea to find out about it's own history though Oo

[Chrono'99]

I always thought the dimensions would merge right from 1,010AD on. It makes more sense as the merging is a merging of dimensions, not time lines or piece of time lines. A dimension as a whole is basically a time line from the Beginning of Time up to the End of Time, so if Another World (Beginning to 2,400AD) and Home World (1010AD to 2,400AD) merge, it would create a new dimension in which everything from the Beginning up to 1010AD is the same as Another World, and everything after 1010AD is different/ideal.

...I don't know if I make any sense. Basically what I'm saying is that it's the (whole) Home dimension that merge, not just a part of its time line.

[Tonjevic]

Why would everything before 1010AD be the same as Another World and shitty?
It probably wouldnt. After all, as you said, its the WHOLE timeline, and all space merging, not just a chunk (Half of teh timeline) from Another World being dominant, and the rest being ideal. In order for it to be ideal, the timeline would have had to lead up to that beautiful time of posperousness and plenty.