The Fate of Crono, Marle, & Lucca [Finalized]

[ZeaLitY]

What are the fates of Crono, Marle, and Lucca?

Child-Drawing Theory
ZeaLitY

I wish to point out that if Lucca's burning is correctly dated at 1015 A.D., Crono may very well be alive. A child's drawing of him hangs in the back passage way. Considering the age of children, it couldn't have been done before the fall of Guardia.

Support

Ybrik Metaknight: Wow...good point. In fact, regardless of whether the date is correct, Crono would almost have to be alive. Consider the following: Kid, in 1020, is 16. She is able to talk to Serge coherently enough that she would have to be 6 or 7 at the youngest during the fire. Simple math dictates that the fire would have to have occured in or after 1010. The Fall of Guardia was in 1005.

Unless those were drawn in 1005, before the Fall of Guardia and Lucca simply left them up for memory, which is unlikely, given the fact that they did not appear to be framed or in any way protected from the elements, and even the inside of a house is not away from the elements enough to preserve something so unprotected for five years or longer.

Child-Drawing Theory
Adjunct: Kid-Drawing Theory
Oswego del Fuego

I assume they were by Kid, since Kid is the only child at the orphanage who is important to the story, and the entire orphanage sequence exists to shed light on her character. Second, despite their childish look, they are really quite accurate. This leads me to believe that Kid actually _met_ the heroes from CT, including Crono and Marle. Perhaps not all at once, but over time. Since this scene takes place _after_ the fall of Guardia in 1005 AD, I have to think that Crono and Marle survived the kingdom's "fall," and, therefore, might still be alive in the time of CC (in Another).

Support

ZeaLitY: The accuracy can work whether Kid draws them or not.

Refutation

ZeaLitY: The kids may have simply copied off a group picture, such as the one seen in in the opening cutscene of Chrono Trigger PSX.

Lucca-Letter Theory
Oswego del Fuego

Kid is 16, which means that Lucca had to have found her around 1003 or 1004. And in Lucca's letter to Kid, she states this:

Quote:
P.S. Cut out the tomboy act! Believe me! You'll become a beautiful young lady one day, or my name isn't "Lucca the Great!"

So for Kid to develop a Tomboy act, I'm assuming she may have been between 5-7 years old... probably around the time Lucca got kidnapped (did they give you a date of the year she was kidnapped? I don't remember). Which means Lucca probably wrote the letter around 1009-1010 or something like that. Roughly 5 years after the fall of Guardia. In the letter, she speaks of her 'friends.'

Quote:
That is why I worry that someone might seek revenge on us for what we did. I have had a constant dread in my heart that someone in our new future will travel back in time, just like we did, and try and kill or capture my friends and me.

She speaks of her friends in the plural and present tense, as if they're still alive and kickin'. I'm assuming she is talking about both Crono and Marle (and perhaps Magus, if he's hangin' around 1000 AD).

Royal-Pardon Theory
Ybrik Metaknight

I think that Guardia XXXIII might have still been king in 1005 A.D. (unless, of course, he died because the Guardia line seem to have short life spans), and so Crono and Marle very well could have been spared. Indeed, they may not have even been in the area, or the era, at the time of the fall.

Refutation

ZeaLitY: Depending on the Porrean captors, they may have perished. Excessive bloodshed is seen in the Fall of Guardia cutscene, leading me to believe they were indeed slain.

Ybrik Metaknight: Of course, if they were in the castle, they most likely would have been executed, whether they were the rulers or not...see the Bolshevik Revolution (and the mystery of Anastasia) for a historical parallel.

[ZeaLitY]

This is a bit offbeat, but:

Crono-Miguel Theory
Vaeran

- Age. Crono was about 16 years old in 1000 A.D., and Chrono Cross takes place in 1020. Miguel is clearly middle-aged, so that works out.

- Appearance. Miguel has red hair and lots of it, though he wears it in a much tamer style than Crono did.

- Game mechanics. Miguel is ludicrously powerful, far more than a simple islander should be. In addition, he's an innate White. Crono could have been a Yellow in CC's system for all his lightning attacks, but his most famous technique was Luminaire, which in CC is a White element.

- Family. Leena looks a lot like what you'd expect Marle and Crono's daughter to; she's basically Marle with Crono's coloring. In addition, her name is very similar to Leene, a name from Marle's family. It's true that we see her "grandmother" and "sister" in Arni village, but they don't look a thing like her. After Miguel never returned from his voyage with Wazuki, an old woman in the village probably took Leena in as her own, as she no longer had any family.

The scene in which you meet Miguel is also very telling. He seems to know a whole hell of a lot about the whole Lavos situation, for one thing. And if you watch carefully, the little Crono shade is always standing nearest him, and is standing directly over (behind) Miguel as he dies.

But doesn't the Crono "ghost" mean that Crono's already dead, and thus isn't Miguel? No; I don't believe the three childlike apparitions are Crono, Marle and Lucca at all. While we're not clear on Marle's fate, we know Lucca at least lived to her early 20s; that's when Lynx kidnaps her (and presumably kills her when she refuses to help). If she died at that age, her ghost wouldn't appear as a little child; ditto for the other two.

(So if they're not ghosts, what are they? I think they're projections of the Frozen Flame, which is the essence of Lavos. The game assumes that your final party to fight Lavos in CT was Crono, Marle and Lucca, and that they would therefore be the last thing it saw. While they're not actually children, that's what Lavos saw them as; weak little human children who shouldn't have been a threat.)

Anyway, so what the hell would Crono be doing all the way down in the El Nido archipelago, anyway? Remember that Porre invaded and conquered Guardia. Like I said, we don't know exactly what happened to Marle, but it's pretty easy to guess: as then-queen of Guardia, she was either killed, taken prisoner, or is in hiding somewhere, possibly organizing a rebellion. Either way, not very pleasant. Knowing that things are going to get bad real soon, she entreats Crono to escape with their child. He gets as far away from Guardia as possible with Leena, settling down to a quiet life in a fishing village and changing his name.

So, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Miguel could just be some simple fisherman whose life ended up sucking beyond all reason. Or he could be the hero from the previous game, imprisoned in an dead future that he helped create, and forced to fight against the only people capable of preventing it. I think it adds an extra level of emotion to think he's the latter. Thoughts?

~

ZeaLitY's note: Crono's innate in Trigger is white, not yellow. The lightning element was originally the Heaven element, but that was changed for whatever reason.

[Beever]

ZeaLitY's note: Crono's innate in Trigger is white, not yellow. The lightning element was originally the Heaven element, but that was changed for whatever reason.

This was most likely changed because at the time of the game's release, Nintendo didn't want references to anything religious in the games on their console, kind of like how in Final Fantasy IV (II on the SNES, for the uninformed) the Holy spell was changed to White, and in Final Fantasy VI (III on the SNES, for the uninformed) it was changed to Pearl.

[RhageSolace]

On the subject of the Miguel/Crono theory...  as we all (or most of us) know, Miguel was Leena's father.  No one ever mentions or calls attention to her mother (not that I can remember)...  but some further evidence may lie simply in Leena's name itself.  Marle's mother, Queen Aliza passed away when she was very young...  the next closest female relative she comes into contact with would be Queen Leene.  Crono's mother's name was never revealed in the US version of CT, but in the Japanese version it was Gina.  Quite a clever combination they have there...  using the name Leene and the name Gina to make the name Leena.  This may further contribute some credibility to the name comparison...  Serge's mother was named Marge, and you can see a similarity in their names, as well.

Personally, whether or not the Crono/Miguel theory is accurate or not, I like it.  Imagine long after the fact, that somone should just realize that they defeated the hero they came to love so much.

[Agent 12]

The only flaw I could see with the Miguel/Crono theory is I don't think Crono would stay hidden away for so long.  Of course having a kid could have changed that.  

--jp

[AuraTwilight]

In the Ideal Timeline, Lucca would be alive, since there wouldn't be a Lynx or a Harle! YAY! I always assumed Crono and Marle escaped, because the Arris Dome ins controlled by the Guardia line. As for those creepy ghosts? Well they know too much, I'm blaming either A)the Entity or B) um....Dopplegangers.

[TepesX]

Wow, I like this theory about Miguel being Crono, pans out quite well in my head (and I'd like to believe it myself)

All the other theories really make sense to me too.

PS: You all think WAAAAY to much. XD (But someone has to, right?)

[Sentenal]

Wow, I like this theory about Miguel being Crono, pans out quite well in my head (and I'd like to believe it myself)

All the other theories really make sense to me too.

PS: You all think WAAAAY to much. XD (But someone has to, right?)

Yeah, its built on assumtions, maybes, and what ifs.  Its a great theory.

[RhageSolace]

I do admit that most of the 'evidence' so far is based on superficial things, such as names and appearances.  However, the bit about the pictures in Lucca's house at the time of it's burning does point to Crono and Marle's survival of the fall of Guardia.  Regardless of whether or not you think Crono may have been Miguel, there is a significant chance that he and Marle are alive somewhere in the world.  Being that they are important people (to both Guardia and to the timeline) they would probably be found at least near El Nido, in order to view the events that occur in CC.

The further we go from the fall of Guardia, the more speculative we become.  The fall of Guardia is a certainty, then comes the theory that Crono and Marle survive to the time when Lucca's orphanage is burnt.  If they did indeed survive to that time, Crono and Marle did in fact lay low and slip under the Porre military's radar.  Also, that really depends on Porre's motivation for taking Guardia down.

I'd like to ask a question myself now...  Somewhere I read that the former Deva's (Radius, Garai, Zappa) were somehow involved in the fall of Guardia.  Also, from the same source, it was said that a figure with a scythe was present as well.  Not saying it was a credible source, but what do you guys think?

[Sentenal]

Well, its almost a certainity (if you look at the facts, not just "They is nots in CC!!") that they survived the Fall.

As for the sythe part, someone doesn't know what their talking about.  Find a better souce

[CatchRBFivy]

I believe that they survive, the times are all just about right.  Still, I think that the Miguel = Crono theory is a little half-baked.  Well not half-baked, just to far of a stretch to be true.  Playing Chrono Trigger we are only showed a small world with about 4-5 villages.  And then all of a sudden there is an archipelago we never knew about that became a whole game on its own.  I'm assuming there is more to the world than what we know already (Guardia/Porre and El Nido.)  Crono could have hidden in another area of the world and just visited Lucca.  It wouldn't be a very grande escape from Porre if all the friends of the Royal family were chilling together.

And I read about this in the other Thread and Kazmaka tries saying that Marle wants to "smash you [Crono/Miguel] to bits"  which is a misquote and is also directed towards humanity not Crono=!Miguel.  So my opinion on this is polluted since it is kazmaka's rubbish.

[SilentMartyr]

While the Miguel = Crono theory looks good on paper, you have to wonder why Marle would have Crono leave with thier child and not the other way around. First of all, Crono is the better fighter, and in a solo situation, could handle himself much better than Marle could. Secondly, I could never even fathom the two wanting to part ways like that. If one of them were going to die, then I wouldn't except the other to just up and leave. And lastly, Crono is not the kind of person to succumb to a higher power. If anything he would have fought to the death, again.

[Legend of the Past]

The point with Miguel=Crono is that it just dosen't make sense. The game would explain this rather clearly if it was true. Besides the fact Miguel's hair  is mahogany brown and Crono's hair is red. Totally red. Not our definition red-hair. RED.

Playing Chrono Trigger we are only showed a small world with about 4-5 villages.

...Which is why I think there are villages and cities completly unshown. Imagine all society on earth would live in four, four cities! What sense does it make? El-Nido alone, which is a tiny place compared to the CT lands, and it alone has 4 cities\villages.

[V_Translanka]

I think that there's probably more townships under each Kingdom, but I dunno if I'd go so far as to say more cities and certainly not more Kingdoms...Plus, we know there'd have to be some farming communities and the like for each kingdom...

[Sentenal]

I think that there's probably more townships under each Kingdom, but I dunno if I'd go so far as to say more cities and certainly not more Kingdoms...Plus, we know there'd have to be some farming communities and the like for each kingdom...

Yeah.  Think of the World map as a simplified World Map.  The Town of Truce wouldn't be that big, there would be more settlements scattered around Zenan, etc etc.