Author Topic: Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..  (Read 5234 times)

JonnyCyo

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« on: January 09, 2006, 02:33:57 am »
I was thinking about it, in the shower....as all good thoughts come.

But I find parallels between Lavos, and the way humanity has turned out to be. In fiction, Lavos is seen as the planet destroyer, sucking up our energy and resources. Feeding on the planet while giving nothing back in return. He's a parasite, and has no intention to stop or change.

In comparison, I believe it was the Matrix that claimed humanity as a 'cancer.' We are parasites feeding off this world and multplying, which results in the loss, or should we say, waste of energy while giving nothing back to the planet that has borne us.
Either way, humanity better get it's sh*t together.

Lordchander

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2006, 02:49:52 am »
Quote from: JonnyCyo
Either way, humanity better get it's sh*t together.


Sadly, I think it is already too late for humanity, global warming is already coming into affect. It is said that by 2100 London, Los Angeles and Amsterdam will all be flooded due to sea waters climbing by 1 meter.

And besides, Modernism has become too set in in the world. Factories cant just stop now, cars cant stop being made. Even if these things happened, it would already be too late.

Radical_Dreamer

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2006, 03:24:03 am »
Quote from: Lordchander
Quote from: JonnyCyo
Either way, humanity better get it's sh*t together.


Sadly, I think it is already too late for humanity, global warming is already coming into affect. It is said that by 2100 London, Los Angeles and Amsterdam will all be flooded due to sea waters climbing by 1 meter.

And besides, Modernism has become too set in in the world. Factories cant just stop now, cars cant stop being made. Even if these things happened, it would already be too late.


It's not as bleak as you think. There are new technologies be developed that can be used with existing infrastructure. Renewable fuels, like biodiesel solve many, many problems, and with hydrogen injection systems already availaible (although only for commercial trucks at this point) the emissions of internal combustion engines can be neutralized. It's just a question of the technology getting a bit more compact, and it'll start spreading, and snow ball.

Gasoline is obsolete. It's just gonna take a while to run out of momentum.

Mystik3eb

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2006, 03:49:23 am »
Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
It's not as bleak as you think. There are new technologies be developed that can be used with existing infrastructure. Renewable fuels, like biodiesel solve many, many problems, and with hydrogen injection systems already availaible (although only for commercial trucks at this point) the emissions of internal combustion engines can be neutralized. It's just a question of the technology getting a bit more compact, and it'll start spreading, and snow ball.

Gasoline is obsolete. It's just gonna take a while to run out of momentum.


God, that'll be the day. Charging up, or pouring some hydrogen water in the tank. Soooooo nice.

Zaperking

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2006, 07:35:22 am »
Lol, there's even this thing about pressurized air to power cars Oo.

The issue here is that humans have grown to dependant on things like fossil fuels and such. The problem here is that when they run out, it'll be a catastrophy, and it'll take even longer to develope another method. The point is to research it now. I'm working on a way that a power plant can get the turbines spinning by the pressure from the coal, but then they can keep spinning for 70% longer without the coal being burnt, hence they produce energy without more coal being burnt, in turn giving off free energy pretty much Oo.

BTW, cold fusion may happen one day ;) A drop of sea water would have enough energy in it to power a car for 10 years :D

AuraTwilight

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2006, 06:40:38 pm »
to quote Marge Simpson in one of the "Glimpse of the Future" episodes.

"Things have been so much easier since scientists invented magic."

Sentenal

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2006, 08:36:16 pm »
Shouldn't be in the Reality, Real-World Connections and the Supernatural forum?

I don't think you can compare Humanity to Lavos.  Comparing humans to Lavos shows an incredible amount of self-hate.

Radical_Dreamer

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2006, 09:47:08 pm »
Quote from: Mystik3eb
Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
It's not as bleak as you think. There are new technologies be developed that can be used with existing infrastructure. Renewable fuels, like biodiesel solve many, many problems, and with hydrogen injection systems already availaible (although only for commercial trucks at this point) the emissions of internal combustion engines can be neutralized. It's just a question of the technology getting a bit more compact, and it'll start spreading, and snow ball.

Gasoline is obsolete. It's just gonna take a while to run out of momentum.


God, that'll be the day. Charging up, or pouring some hydrogen water in the tank. Soooooo nice.


Will be? Hell, in a year I'll be buying a diesel car, with the intent to run it off of biodiesel, which is already commericially available where I live, and will only be cheaper and easier to get at when I make the switch. The hydrogen injectors are available now, they just are too large and expensive for non-commercial vehicles. But that will change soon enough; technology gets smaller and cheaper rapidly this day and age.

JonnyCyo

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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2006, 10:33:34 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
Shouldn't be in the Reality, Real-World Connections and the Supernatural forum?

I don't think you can compare Humanity to Lavos.  Comparing humans to Lavos shows an incredible amount of self-hate.


Self hate was never an intention, and I believe everyone else on this board realizes that. The comparison was simply drawn to the fact that two life forms are using up this planet's energy and resources.

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2006, 01:34:48 am »
Quote from: Sentenal
Shouldn't be in the Reality, Real-World Connections and the Supernatural forum?

I don't think you can compare Humanity to Lavos.  Comparing humans to Lavos shows an incredible amount of self-hate.


Yes and no. It is, maybe, a warning, which is quite a common thread in such games, I think, and (from what I've seen) in Japanese media as a whole. Most of the Miyazaki films seem to deal with that on some level.

However, the implication is that humanity is not evil, but simply bad. Bad in action, thoughtless in the way we behave, corrupt due to our sin (which, in the Chrono world, is an effect of our being the 'children' of Lavos... or so say the Dragons, at any rate.) After all, it is humanity that saves the world time and again. It is only, well, a certain measure of arrogance and lethargy that is attempting to be portrayed. The extinction of creatures is shown through the Hydra and the like, and the game-writers are, through the voice of the Fairies and the earth, are saying: stop the hate, think about the planet, and not yourselves for a moment. Thing about the cost. It's a typical enviromentalist message and, though it's a touch idealistic, is not without its merits. It is certain that things could not change in a short space of time, but the fact of the matter, most of the enviromental problems we're facing are not the ancient crime of humanity: they're the side-effect of a giant leap in our progress. The world was exceedingly exploited through the Industrial Revolution and beyond, with no knowledge nor care for the effects. Well, that's done and past. Time to shape up and change, and atone for that. Not continue in our ways (for which we must be seen as enemies to the planet), but make things better. Like I said, idealistic in the short term, but not impossible. There is also a second reason for it is rather more philisophical, and this ties in better with the whole idea of Humanity=Lavos. I'm not thinking too well on this regard right now (someone fill in for me), but this is more along the lines of inherent nature. A wish to destroy, a wish to command, and grow, and, as Kid says it on seeing Terra Tower 'to become more powerful'. It's a philisophical analysis of what makes humanity different from the animals. I forget who said it, Greek or Roman, but something along the lines of the fact that it is humanity, alone of creatures, who look up to heaven, but even so we cannot grasp eternity. That's one explanation. There are a myriad of others in a hundred cultures. What the Chrono writers are saying is seems, above all else, to be an anomoly. Now, that's worked out for good in the past, but we must watch it, else we turn out like Lavos! And, in fact, we often behave so much like him, let's make them akin in this story. There's that potential in mankind to become like Lavos - see the Queen of Zeal and her misguided ambition - but I do not think the philisophical idea in Chrono, as much as hatred is spewed by the earth, is that mankind is evil. Flawed, but capable of great things. Destructive, yet saviours. Sort of standing a foot upon either shore - an anomoly to both, as it were - and capable of going either way.

Essentially, I think the message of the game (if I read it right), is that humanity, as we're behaving, are Lavos. However, we have the potential to be better. In other words, on one hand we have Lavos, and on the other the Reptites. Well, we could do with going over to the latter side a little more. Unless I misread the intent, however.

JonnyCyo

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« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2006, 01:42:59 pm »
Bingo!
You've made us all proud!
No one, not Lavos or humanity is evil, simply flawed and making negative choices. I think you were striving to reach that some of these choices are inherent with our nature.
For example, Lavos is simply surviving, therefor he is no more evil than a cougar eating a rabbit. Simple survival dictates how an organism reacts. Humanities level of survival is elevated toa  higher level as we are sentient beings. This meaning that we are not easyily satisfied with just being 'full' as it were. We must aspire to bigger and better things, while unknowingly we might be draining earth in the process.

AuraTwilight

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2006, 07:30:14 pm »
I dunno, Lavos is pretty damn evil as the Time Devourer. And I think taking out an entire planet for your own reproduction is a bit going over the top of moral ambiquity.

Zaperking

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2006, 08:16:47 pm »
Quote from: AuraTwilight
I dunno, Lavos is pretty damn evil as the Time Devourer. And I think taking out an entire planet for your own reproduction is a bit going over the top of moral ambiquity.

It's the combination of both Schala and Lavos' emotions that drove it to become that. Quite weird actually, since the TD is female, which either means Lavos is female, or Schala is the dominant one somehow (One bad day of PMS for the TD).

Hindu_Pez

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2006, 11:53:23 pm »
As long as big business in America has it's hands in Saudi Oil, nobody is going to invest the proper amount of money, time or effort in making ecologically-friendly fuel a reality. I'd like it as much as anyone else, but I'm not holding my breath. I think we'd be about as lucky to find $1m under a park bench as we would to see renewable fuels on the market in our lifetimes.

Yes, there is the avaliable technology, and yes, it's out there, but it's not affordable...and none of our lovely corporations in the grand-ol'-U-S-of-A are going to allow their businesses to be effectively closed without putting up a fight. It's the reality of big business. The great tragedy is that it's an issue of money that will destroy us. To quote Melchoir...

"what a sad state of affairs..."

My apologies for giving a jibber jabber jangle jamble ramble response, there.


Quote from: Radical_Dreamer


It's not as bleak as you think. There are new technologies be developed that can be used with existing infrastructure. Renewable fuels, like biodiesel solve many, many problems, and with hydrogen injection systems already availaible (although only for commercial trucks at this point) the emissions of internal combustion engines can be neutralized. It's just a question of the technology getting a bit more compact, and it'll start spreading, and snow ball.

Gasoline is obsolete. It's just gonna take a while to run out of momentum.

ZeaLitY

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Lavos represents 20th century humanity. Here's why..
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2006, 12:04:46 am »
Man, I wouldn't be able to live if I didn't have at least SOME faith in humanity. Though idealistic change is not always properly undertaken when first proposed, humans will adapt once all are in the same boat. The new fuels are coming.