Poll

What is your favorite D&D alignment?

Lawful Good
0 (0%)
Neutral Good
5 (38.5%)
Chaotic Good
2 (15.4%)
Lawful Neutral
3 (23.1%)
True Neutral
1 (7.7%)
Chaotic Neutral
0 (0%)
Lawful Evil
1 (7.7%)
Neutral Evil
1 (7.7%)
Chaotic Evil
0 (0%)
D&D is only for Satanists!
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Voting closed: January 19, 2006, 05:01:59 pm

Author Topic: Chrono Trigger Meets Dungeons & Dragons  (Read 6518 times)

Lord J Esq

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Chrono Trigger Meets Dungeons & Dragons
« on: January 19, 2006, 05:01:59 pm »
I was a bit hesitant to post this in the Analysis section, so I am posting it here. The premise is quite straightforward! We take Chrono Trigger characters, and assign them D&D alignments.

Before we get started, none of this discussion means anything without a common definition for these alignments that we can all work from. So, let us do that first.

~~~~~
Good vs. Evil
D&D, although being rather vague on the subject, suggests that Good is closely associated with altruism, compassion, courage, loyalty, and dependability, whereas Evil is associated with selfishness, malice, dishonesty, deceit, and conniption. (“Conniption,” for the 98 percent of you who don’t know that word, is a state of violent, overwhelming emotion…like a fit.)

This common depiction of Good vs. Evil suffers from being rather overly simplistic and often unrealistic, as characters assigned to one end of the spectrum will often exhibit traits from the other side. However, we will go with it for the sake of convenience, rather than, say, force my own definition on everybody, which would undoubtedly derail the topic.

Law vs. Chaos
D&D does a slightly better job with this axis, probably because it is much easier to define. It suggests that Lawfulness is associated with dutifulness, deference, dogmatism, and, in keeping with the letter D, deuteronomy. D&D takes a more relativist attitude with this axis, stating explicitly that residency anywhere on the spectrum has both its ups and downs. Thus, where Lawfulness is concerned, disadvantages include closed-mindedness, prejudice, disparagement, and conservativeness.

In contrast, in D&D Chaoticness (sic) is associated with caprice, flexibility, freedom, and liberalism—or, for our Republican-voting friends, let us call that last one an “openness to new ideas.” Likewise, the downsides of Chaoticness (does anybody have a better noun form?) include anarchism, inconsistency, hypocrisy, and recklessness.

I once again disagree with D&D’s definitions, but we’ll use them for the sake of convenience. Now, let’s get down to business!

~~~~~
Crono: Neutral Good
Most of the playable characters are rather dull in that they all fall predictably on the Good side of the Good vs. Evil axis. But things get a bit more interesting when it comes to the Lawful vs. Chaotic axis.

Crono is definitely a Good, almost to a fault. I say “fault” because his do-gooder schemes throughout the game are straightforward and sincere, but unnecessarily foolhardy and oftentimes brash. Things work out well for him, but often through sheer luck. Among other things, better planning might have saved his life—which was saved anyway, of course, but that’s RPGs for you. I would say that Crono is so far on the Good end of the spectrum that it becomes questionable whether he actually is Good anymore. If we consider his values only, and not his excessive zeal toward them, then he is clearly Good, but if zeal can be taken to an unhealthy extreme—and what a good game to highlight the idea that it can—then Crono is a hero only because the game dealt him a winning hand. In a more realistic world, his intentions and his fervor could have easily had disastrous results. Later RPGs finally began to explore this idea, but back in 1995 most RPGs were still black and white. Further insights might be gleaned by considering Crono in terms of the Zelda Triforce scheme; Crono has an abundance of courage, but with neither the wisdom nor the power to balance his persona. Fortunately for him, he has good friends to see him through.

Crono’s lawfulness, however, is not nearly so imbalanced as his goodness. He is very much a pragmatist when it comes to honoring established tradition and staying “inside the lines,” as it were—enough that you might even say he has a streak of anarchism in him. Definitely he would rate as a hardcore libertarian. Crono regularly breaks all sorts of laws, slaughters people without being provoked, and violates etiquette and ethic alike. He is a Neutral for all of this because his actions are always consistent in their reasoning; Crono always acts in the name of defending his friends and, later, saving the world. He is a Neutral without question.

~~
Marle: Lawful Good
If I were the type to sneer—and I’m not saying I am, but if I were—then “Lawful Good” would be the most odious alignment of them all. For starters it is a boring alignment, but, more to the point, it is the home of an uncommon number of those holier-than-thou types who exult in pretending to be superior and holding their morality and niceness above other people’s heads. Definitely these kinds of people are the scum of the Lawful Good alignment. On the other hand, many perfectly ordinary people fall into this alignment too.

Marle is just such a person. Other than being a princess and the love interest of a hero—perhaps even a hero herself, if you want to read the game that way—she is one of the clearest statements of Lawful Good in the whole adventure. I really don’t think I need to add further comment; you’re welcome to contribute.

~~
Lucca: Neutral Good
Lucca is harder to pin down. She’s more interesting in this regard than many of the other playable characters, because her belief in science and innovation is almost more innate than anything else about her, raising the possibility that she might be a Neutral on one or both axes.

We see in the game that Lucca always directs her creative energies toward D&D-sanctioned “good” goals, like helping others or, if nothing else, self-improvement. (“…Beat me up and get 15 Silver Points!”) Her affinity for Robo, who represents perhaps one of her life’s goals—that is, to fuse the human spirit with technology—leads her to great acts of kindness and bravery. And, of course, it’s a bit beyond the scope of Chrono Trigger, but let’s not forget that she opened an orphanage, for cryin’ out loud. I call her a Good.

Her place on the Law axis is harder to determine. She doesn’t get enough action in the game to really cement her on either end of the spectrum. Her willingness to help bust Crono out of jail, despite the fact that, from her point of view, he was only going to be in jail for three days, certainly suggests that her respect for authority is circumstantial at best. There is no specific event in the game to balance out this Chaotic tendency out; however, a quick look at her dedication to scientific enterprise establishes a clear acknowledgement of the importance of consistency, diligence, and perseverance—all of which work against the idea that she is Chaotic. In the end, I would rate her a Neutral, although it is a more difficult call than it was in Crono’s case.

~~
Frog: Lawful Good
I don’t need to say a thing on this one.

~~
Robo: Lawful Good
Most of the PC cast is, of course, Lawful Good, including Robo, but Robo’s explanation is more interesting than the others.

Lucca famously said in the game that machines aren’t capable of evil; that humans make them that way. It’s probably true, at least where simplistic machines like Robo are concerned, but also true is the converse: They aren’t capable of good either; we impart that to them, as well. Prior to the Apocalypse and the corruption of the Mother Brain, machines obviously served human society very usefully, living a utilitarian existence more so than anything else. It remains unanswered how humans felt about them, and I wouldn’t want to venture a guess, as this is a hot subject in anime and science fiction, but we can reasonably assume that the robots of 1999 were not as evil as they later became. Robo stands out in stark contrast to his counterparts from the 24th century; his adventures with Crono & Co., and especially his awakening under Lucca, contributed to create in Robo a Goodness that probably hadn’t been there before. Robo’s limited character drama is resolved pretty soon after his first appearance, and he spends the rest of the game being a clear Good, almost a goodie-two-shoes, to the point that by the time the Atropos episode rolls around, there really isn’t much drama at all, as we know what Robo is going to decide. Robo is definitely Good.

One of the interesting stereotypes about robots is that they are always designed to be fanatically lawful and always end up being horribly chaotic. Real life diminishes the extreme on both ends. No pseudo-intelligent machine could be as fanatically obedient as fantasy stories assume, for the same reason that computer programming is so challenging: Humans treat their language conceptually, whereas robots (simple-minded robots, anyway) interpret their programming literally. You can’t program “fanatical obedience” into a robot, because that’s a concept. To literally program obedience requires a much more quantitative, comprehensive effort, and the pragmatic expense of this undertaking would certainly be that no A.I. would ever be unwaveringly loyal. But, by the same token—and more importantly—these robots would never turn against their masters as colorfully and dramatically as the storybooks allege. Being possessed of a simpler intelligence than humans, their behavior would be inherently more obvious in its logical consistency, and will always tend towards Lawfulness. This is precisely what happens to Robo, just as his programming dictates:

Quote
ROBOT: Understood.
   Madam Lucca fixed me.

Lucca: Just Lucca will do.

ROBOT: Impossible.
   That would be rude.

Ain’t it interesting how robots are (written to be) so darn eager to ignore orders when it comes to respecting their base programming? A fanatically loyal robot would not have corrected its master, especially with a blanket statement like “impossible.”

~~
Ayla: Lawful Good
Ayla lives in a rougher world, and virtues like compassion don’t stand out as boldly in her as, say, courage, which is unquestionable. But her compassion is certainly there, too: She aided Crono & Co. when they first arrived in Prehistory; she aided them again after their defeat at Magus’ lair; and she even offered to aid Azala after defeating her just moments earlier. She is loyal to her friends, even committing to the fight against Lavos, despite the fact that its cold, selfless nature must have pushed the limits of her comprehension. She even altruistically agreed to hang out at the End of Time for easy recall, which must have been spectacularly boring for her. Ayla is Good.

Ayla’s Lawfulness is harder to ascribe than that of other characters, because her world is so much simpler than that of her descendents. But by the limited social constructs that do exist, Ayla loyally abides. My sig is a nice example of that, if somewhat dramatic. Ayla is consistent with a Lawful character type.

~~
Magus: True Neutral
The only playable character who isn’t a Good, Magus is bent on one objective alone, and will disregard or destroy anything that stops him.

As is true for some True Neutrals, there are interesting cases to be made for Magus from both sides of both spectra. Lavos is such an unspeakable evil to the world that Magus’ uncompromising hatred is the only proper response among any of the characters. Indeed, the attitudes toward Lavos of the others look awkwardly casual by comparison. In that light, it is tempting to wonder if Magus is indeed the most Good of all the characters. But here the inadequacies of the D&D scheme come to the forefront; they cannot accommodate difficult reasoning, and, by their relatively simple standards, there is no way to call Magus a Good character. The case for calling Magus an Evil is easier to make, mostly because he is the opposite of many of the virtues that typically defined Goodness, while embodying most of the Evil traits. But it just doesn’t seem right to look at Magus’ personality without looking at the reason his personality is the way that it is. Malice in him is not the same as it is in somebody like Dalton. Magus doesn’t seem to hold any particular grudge against anybody except Lavos, and although he developed a strong cynical streak in his life and times—such as would convince him that turning Glenn into a frog was a fun idea—he isn’t blatlantly malicious. His dishonesty, his selfishness…they all have a good reason. Moral purists might try to make the case that he is Evil, but I see in Magus a Neutral.

Magus’ placement on the Lawfulness axis is much easier, and runs along the same vein that Crono’s neutrality does. Thus, I needn’t repeat myself. Magus is a Neutral, which, together with his Neutrality on the Good vs. Evil axis, makes him a True Neutral.

~~~~~
Now we leave behind the rather uninteresting main cast, and get to some of Chrono Trigger’s truly fascinating characters!

~~
Spekkio: Chaotic Neutral
Spekkio is a very interesting character. Here we have somebody who we might think ought to be one of the most austere figures in the game, but instead he is one of the most fanciful and good-spirited. Being the Master of War is undoubtedly a mind-bending occupation, and we immediately cannot expect Spekkio to be Good or Evil, nor Lawful.

On the axis of good and evil, he encompasses none of the traits associated with either end. Good and Evil for Spekkio seem simply to not exist. Chrono Trigger is full of conflict and strife, full of wars fought for good reasons and bad, and battles between good and evil abound. The entity sitting at the top of this dubious monument to human nature is bound to be impartial, disinterested, and utterly neutral with regard to the reasons that bring people to war in the first place. When he imbues Crono & Co. with magic, Spekkio mentions that to use magic requires power of the heart, and “inner strength,” and that is exactly as I would define Spekkio: a personification of inner strength. Such a virtue is called upon by heroes and villains and life; it is a fundamental human trait. Spekkio is a Neutral.

His placement on the Law axis is just as intuitive and emphatic. Spekkio encompasses practically all of the traits that D&D associates with Chaoticness. The only law he seems to hold in any esteem is the physical boundary of warfare. Nothing else matters. Spekkio is bizarre, temperamental, boisterous, and utterly flamboyant—an unabashedly Chaotic figure.

~~
Kino: Lawful Neutral
I was thinking to myself, wondering whether I could find an example of a Lawful Neutral character. I hit upon Kino by chance, but I think he fits the bill quite nicely.

Kino’s intentions definitely tend toward the Good, but, like so many of us, Kino finds that the real world can be pretty tough on our ideals. His betrayal of Crono & Co. is motivated by sheer jealousy, and the cowardice by which he refuses to confront Crono directly, or at least talk to Ayla directly, as well as the cowardice by which he confesses to his crime as soon as he is found, is the hallmark of a rather weak-willed character…someone to be pitied. As much as he may strive for what is good—and I certainly believe he does, given his status as second-in-command and love interest to Ayla—Kino strikes me as somebody who regularly falls short of his ideals thanks to the corruptive powers of temptation and sheer pettiness. He is an impressionable fellow, and I would rate him a Neutral more so than a Good.

In Kino we have somebody who utterly respects the law, even to the point of being scared of it, and dominated by it. When he steals the gate key, he knows perfectly well what he is doing and it terrifies him enough that he conducts his mission with treachery and cunning more, in defiance not only of the law but of personal conviction as well. He seems almost compelled by his own jealousy to do something he utterly does not want to do: violate Iokan custom, cross his chief, and hurt the visitors. You can see how much it pains him to do so, which is what I use as the basis for my case that Kino is a Lawful character. By the trepidation and discomfort with which he breaks the law, we see him to be an utter adherent to it.

~~
Flea: Neutral Evil
Slash: Lawful Evil
Ozzie: Chaotic Evil
I am taking these tone-deaf, evil fiends together at once, because they fit so nicely together. They are three of a kind!

What isn’t in doubt is that all three of them are Evil. They are horribly unreliable, they delight in their own mischievousness, and anyone who turns his or her back to them deserves what comes next! Flea is like a mook with delusions of grandeur, and none of the willingness to commit to achieving those big ambitions. Slash is like the Samurai who gets expelled from his order for flagrant dishonor. He is loyal and dutiful only on the surface, and utterly rotten underneath. And Ozzie! Heh. Ozzie. Ozzie is the king of kings when it comes to cowardice, treason, and gross ineptitude. And he revels in it so…

Quote from: Ozzie
Magus! You lied when you said you wanted to create a world of evil! You used me!

Here’s somebody who isn’t meant to be taken seriously at all…comic book evil, as it were. I can’t believe Magus made him his top general.

But on the axis of Law, these three have an interesting relationship vis-à-vis one another. Prior to his first defeat, Slash behaves like a loyal servant. That’s why it seemed to me as though he was like a would-be hero who got thrown out for lack of qualifications. His famous last words are telling:

Quote from: Slash
Unbelievable...! But falling in the line of duty for Magus...leaves me with few regrets!

I really like that quote, and for the purposes of this discussion it smacks of Lawfulness. Maybe think of Slash as that apocryphal butler whose proclivity for evil overwhelms his sense of lawfulness in the most unsuspecting of ways.

Flea definitely is not Lawful. Here is someone who also follows Magus before being defeated. But Flea’s motives are inscrutable; the dedication to Magus doesn’t seem to have much of an explanation besides the old standby of establishing a new world order of evil. In the absence of evidence, it’s very hard to make a case that Flea is a Chaotic character. That leaves only the middle of the road.

And Ozzie, of course, will do whatever he can get away with. He is utterly consumed by his own fancy and has no regard for the law whatsoever. Once again, it is amazing that this guy got to be the top general. Maybe Magus didn’t want anyone who could possibly threaten him, so he settled for a buffoon to distract the continent with a war while he prepared to summon Lavos.

~~~~~
There are plenty of interesting characters yet to discuss, notably the three Gurus, the three Masamune spirits, Dalton, Alfador (tee hee), the Laruba chief, Yakra, and many more. I haven’t got the time to write about all of them just now, and I probably won’t for the next few days, so anybody who wants to try their hand at this is welcome. It’s a lot of fun!

Oh, and of course, as always, comment is invited. If you would align the aforementioned characters differently than I have, by all means do tell us about it.

Daniel Krispin

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Chrono Trigger Meets Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2006, 08:56:33 pm »
An excellent analysis, well thought out and reasoned. There is only one thing I would like to call into question, and that is your reasoning that Marle is 'lawful'; personally, I would be more inclined to call her character 'chaotic'. It is for that reason, her derision of her duites and the laws of her country - and her father - that she runs away. You've said the tendancy of lawfulness is to be close-minded, whereas chaotic is more open-minded. Well, in most of Marle's actions, I'd think her to be the most accepting of others, and most willing to see new ideas. Likewise, she is certainly not, to my mind, a conservative. Dutifulness, deference... I don't think these quite fit with Marle, and never does she ever fall into prejudice. However, she does care very much for the traits of chaos: freedom, for example, seems to be what she most desires at the beginning. And even so, I think her to be rather reckless in following a stranger at a fair.

Anyway, good analysis (especially on the Ozzie-Flea-Slash field; that is so very true...), I just wasn't so sure on that one with Marle.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006, 10:23:26 pm »
I think you are right. I concede the point entirely. I don't know how I could have missed that one so badly. Perhaps my lack of interest in the character inhibited my judgment.

I can't believe there aren't more votes in the poll! Doesn't anybody remember D&D? I withheld my vote so as not to spoil the results, but so far only one person has voted. Alas!

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2006, 12:06:49 am »
Despite our averaging 1300 unique users a day now, the forums have been very, very quiet lately compared to past days. I'm not sure what to make of it.

DeweyisOverrated

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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2006, 12:50:34 am »
I know I stopped coming here for a good 2-3 months because really, I picked up pretty much everything the entire series has to offer.  I think that may be the case with many users.  When you start getting down to Kino = Schala, you know you've talked about everything.

I didn't "vote" because I've never played D&D.

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2006, 03:34:45 am »
Likewise. I was just going for the rest on the explanations Lord J gave.

Mystik3eb

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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2006, 05:24:01 am »
I voted. I'm not big on D&D, but I'm big on this analysis. Brilliant post, Josh. And props to DK for pointing out what I would've if you hadn't. Marle certaintly isn't very lawful. I always found her more interesting than anyone else did.

And I think it's awesome that the option I picked in the poll happened to be the same as my favorite characters, before I even read through the post. Sweet!

Oh, what about Cyrus? Lawful Good? Taban? Hard to place...same with Lara.

Doan...also hard to place. The biggest problem with these characters is they don't do enough.

Dalton? I think he's pretty much Chaotic Evil. Same for Queen Zeal. Schala? Neutral Good. Janus? Same as Magus, I suppose. Same person, after all.

Fiona! Good, but what good? Either Lawful or Neutral, tough to say.

Azala! Now she's gotta be Lawful Evil. She kept her word, always. She was highly respectable.

...actually that makes me wonder...is she truly evil? Really? I dunno...maybe she's True Neutral...I mean what does she do that's pure evil? Attack the humans? The humans attack them! Does that make the humans evil? Maybe. This would be an interesting one to analyze, Josh. I leave that to you, I'm lackluster in this area.

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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2006, 03:44:46 am »
The problem with D&D alignments is that the game itself doesn't expect too many situations that are this deep. For example, it is perfectly reasonable for two Lawful Good characters to fight each other to the death - they may be members of different warring nations, for example - or for the Chaotic Evil guy to help out the party, because he gets what he wants in the end. However, D&D usually becomes a clear game of Good v. Evil, which is why the developers didn't put much thought into it.

(Though if you read the Book of Vile Darkness and the Book of Exalted Deeds Supplemental Books, that changes entirely.)

As for me, I have a different view of the cast.

Chrono - Chaotic Good
Much of what has been said about Chrono is true up to a point; his lawful bent. I believe that personally Chrono is more worried about the end of the fight with Lavos, without care for the law. He is a character devoted to the path of justice against evil without need for the laws that bind. Thus, Chaos is his nature.
====
Frog - Lawful Good, later Neutral Good

The thing about Frog is that his approach on life changes somewhere down the line of the story. At first, he is a Knight, pure and simple; he's also Lawful Good personified. However, as the events of the story progress, Frog seems more devoted to the destruction of Lavos and evil outright, and seems to strive down greater lengths to do so. I believe this causes an Alignment Shift on the Law/Chaos axis toward the chaotic side, but stops him square in the middle.
====
Robo - True Neutral

There's a reason for this.

First off, though he is a sentient "being", Robo is still a machine. He is programmed and acts on that information. If you want to take it further, he too is bound by Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics. The reason he appears good is because he is programmed that way. His exterior persona can change and can influence what will happen within him accordingly, but I believe that Robo is still bound by programming, despite what happens in the game.
====
Magus - Neutral Evil, True Neutral

At first, Magus actually is evil. His quest to destroy Lavos is his alone, and he's willing to use people to achieve that end. In D&D land, that's selfish and evil.

Otherwise... he's about the same.
====

This wasn't asked for, but I'm going to put down character classes for some characters, too, as 30th Level characters.

-

Chrono: Fighter 10 / Sorcerer 10 / Eldritch Knight 10

Chrono is hard to determine, given his inherit magical and physical abilities. The fighter class should be obvious (Chrono's abilities are fighter abilities for a long time before he gets magic.) After Spekkio, he sets on the Sorcerer path for a while, and then finally he takes 10 levels in the Eldritch Knight class (As a variant, Spellsword 10), to increase his fighter abilities and his casting abilities at the same time.

-

Marle: Scout 10 / Cleric 15 / Hierophant 5

Marle is far easier. The Scout is a base class introduced in the Complete Adventurer Supplemental, and is extremely useful as an archer class. The Cleric levels are easy to see why, as well; Marle uses primarily healing spells with a few attack spells, and that is the Cleric personified. The Hierophant is simply an uber-Cleric, and thus logically she becomes one.

-

Lucca: Rogue 15 / Wizard 10 / Cleric 5

Lucca always seemed Marle's foil to me when it came to combat, so I reversed their methods of casting. The Rogue has the largest skill-set in D&D, so it only made sense that Lucca start out as one. The Sorceress levels exist because of her strong casting ability, and the Cleric spells complement those as well.

-

Frog: Paladin 10 / Fighter 10 / Weapon Master 10

Frog was of course a Paladin once, what with his healing spells and strong attack abilities. When his alignment shifts, however, he begins taking levels in Fighter instead, and his spellcasting power comes solely from his Paladin levels at that point in the game. As the game nears its end, Frog becomes a stronger swordsman than Chrono, and thus starts the Weapon Master track.

-

Robo: None (Large Construct)

-

Magus: Sorcerer 5 / Cleric 5 / Mystic Theurge 10 / Hierophant 5 / Archmage 5

You should have seen this one coming. Magus is the strongest caster in the game, and his levels in both Cleric and Sorc are reminescent of that. Since both of those would be useless if one became stronger, Magus takes the Mystic Theurge, which rases both Arcane and Divine spellcasting powers. After he maxes out that class, he takes levels interchangably in Hierophant and Archmage, thus gaining access to those overpowered epic spells he uses in the final moments of the game.

Lordchander

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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2006, 05:41:03 am »
Quote from: Dewey
I know I stopped coming here for a good 2-3 months because really, I picked up pretty much everything the entire series has to offer. I think that may be the case with many users. When you start getting down to Kino = Schala, you know you've talked about everything.


Then now it means that everyone has to think further and more deeper on the series. Radical Dreamers is something that everyone should delve into I think. I've seen hardly any RD focused Threads.

But the down-side to this is that more people will be making more dodgy theories and the like which most people seem to take as nothing worth listening to.

Oh well, if we all just use our minds we can think deeper.

And this may also mean that the General Discussion thread may begin to be filled up with lots of threads relating to games and subjects completely unrelated to the Chrono Series.

SilentMartyr

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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2006, 03:58:40 pm »
I would have to agree with GG, Crono's actions tends to lean more towards the side of chaotic. He is irrational(Not that his decisions are poor but that they rarely seem to benefit Crono's well being), quick to act, and he breaks the law on numerous occasions. Everything else is tip top shape.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2006, 06:56:03 pm »
Quote from: SilentMartyr
I would have to agree with GG, Crono's actions tends to lean more towards the side of chaotic. He is irrational(Not that his decisions are poor but that they rarely seem to benefit Crono's well being), quick to act, and he breaks the law on numerous occasions. Everything else is tip top shape.

You're a bit off-track with the D&D alignment scheme. I classified Crono as a Neutral, not a Lawful. Neutrality is not simply the absence or balance of Chaos and Law, but rather a third pole in its own right. Crono is definitely not inconsistent in his actions, nor unprincipled, nor unpredictable--traits we would expect to see in him if he were a Chaotic. He marches to the beat of his own drum, but is true to his convictions in a very consistent way. He is pretty clearly a Neutral.

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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2006, 02:30:43 am »
Quote from: Lord J esq
Quote from: SilentMartyr
I would have to agree with GG, Crono's actions tends to lean more towards the side of chaotic. He is irrational(Not that his decisions are poor but that they rarely seem to benefit Crono's well being), quick to act, and he breaks the law on numerous occasions. Everything else is tip top shape.

You're a bit off-track with the D&D alignment scheme. I classified Crono as a Neutral, not a Lawful. Neutrality is not simply the absence or balance of Chaos and Law, but rather a third pole in its own right. Crono is definitely not inconsistent in his actions, nor unprincipled, nor unpredictable--traits we would expect to see in him if he were a Chaotic. He marches to the beat of his own drum, but is true to his convictions in a very consistent way. He is pretty clearly a Neutral.


You're thinking in Second Edition D&D terms, in which a Chaotic Neutral character was practically insane. Chaos does not necessarily mean inconsistency, being unprincipled, or unpredictable. Rather, to quote:

"Chaos implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them."

In this light, you can say that Crono acted within his own rights, thus putting him out of synch with the rest of society. Jumping into the Time Gate at the very beginning of the game was definitely a reckless and irresponsible thing to do, but it was something definitely good, as well.

Chaotic Good, "Rebel"
A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society. [/i]

Example: Crono's actions in 600AD threw him out of synch with society because he acted outside the king's orders to end the Mystic War.

If you want to be more specific, then I would have to say that Crono would be "Chaotic Good, with Neutral Tendencies".

Neutrality is less of a third pole than it is a middle ground between poles. It's the gray area, in which characters pass through when heading for one alignment.

LadyShiva

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Chrono Trigger Meets Dungeons & Dragons
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2006, 02:23:07 am »
What a wonderful idea for a topic! And great analyses so far guys.
  Okay I call Alfador and Crono’s cat(s). I’ve always held the belief that all cats are inherently true neutral. Sure you may get those funny ones every once in a while that you could swear are evil, but for the most part cats are simply utterly self serving creatures that don’t really care about things one way or the other unless it benefits them. If that’s not the definition of true neutral I don’t know what is.

 A side note: I always thought of the law vs chaos side to also represent a persons position on society as well. Lawful of course believes in a structured society with a system of laws and government, while chaotic is more of an every man for himself, elf poking berries up his nose in the woods sort of thing. Of course this starts to conflict when you look at someone like Frog(living in the woods poking berries up his nose) who most certainly adheres to order and law. Of course if he wasn’t in self imposed exile I’m sure he would rather be serving king and country and being the lawful good paladin that he is ^-^;  [/overthinking]

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