The Fall of Guardia

[Magus22]

Q: Why would Dalton consider Guardia an enemy?

A: Read my posts.

[AuraTwilight]

Better question: HOW could Guardia consider Dalton an enemy? He dies before Guardia is even founded (And I doubt he could've time traveled through a summoning gate, since none of the Zealians had mastered the art of time travel at the time, not even Belthasar.)

[Crawler333]

none of the Zealians had mastered the art of time travel at the time, not even Belthasar.)

It seems Magus mastered this skill-at least if you give some credit to his "untold presence" in CC (see the article about his shadow somewhere in this site).
Anyway, the Dalton-time-travel it's a key factor for what concerns the Fall of Guardia issue, and it would be worth a topic of its own (though I think there's one already....)

[CyberSarkany]

Q: Why would Dalton consider Guardia an enemy?

Revenge? It wouldn't be hard to gain information, like, Crono Marle and Lucca working with them.

[Chrono'99]

Dalton doesn't exactly consider anyone an enemy, but he always wants to dominate people: the Earthbound Ones, the Last Village survivors, etc. If he were in 1,000 A.D., it's not farfetched to think he'd like to take control of a country (it would be Porre) and then to conquer all the other countries (starting with Guardia).

The "if" I put in italics is essential though.

[AuraTwilight]

It seems Magus mastered this skill-at least if you give some credit to his "untold presence" in CC (see the article about his shadow somewhere in this site).
Anyway, the Dalton-time-travel it's a key factor for what concerns the Fall of Guardia issue, and it would be worth a topic of its own (though I think there's one already....)

Yea, but by then, he's HARDLY a Zealian.

[Crawler333]

It seems Magus mastered this skill-at least if you give some credit to his "untold presence" in CC (see the article about his shadow somewhere in this site).
Anyway, the Dalton-time-travel it's a key factor for what concerns the Fall of Guardia issue, and it would be worth a topic of its own (though I think there's one already....)

Yea, but by then, he's HARDLY a Zealian.

That's a nice point.The fact is, we have no clue of where Dalton ends up after CT, so it's quite impossible to suppose how (and if) he coud get to Guardia in 1004 A.D.Anyway, this doesn't mean it's not possible, either.

[Magus068]

It seems Magus mastered this skill-at least if you give some credit to his "untold presence" in CC (see the article about his shadow somewhere in this site).
Anyway, the Dalton-time-travel it's a key factor for what concerns the Fall of Guardia issue, and it would be worth a topic of its own (though I think there's one already....)

Yea, but by then, he's HARDLY a Zealian.

That's a nice point.The fact is, we have no clue of where Dalton ends up after CT, so it's quite impossible to suppose how (and if) he coud get to Guardia in 1004 A.D.Anyway, this doesn't mean it's not possible, either.

It's possible but less likely.

[evirus]

my own persional opinion on how guardia fell even though crono and marle where within the kingdom or even at the thrown is the difference between magic and elements

-we know for a face that elements are tangible, they can be bought sold equiped unequiped and stolen.
-the nature of magic in CT requires the user have enough energy(MP) to channle or cast the magical spell/ability
-the nature of elements revolves around "momentium" so long as the user can build up enough "momentium" they can
     preform the attack
-magical spells and ability are almost exclusive to the user
-most elements can be used by any user

if you consider that the fall of guardia to porre takes place around the time frame that elements became useable i think it is entirely possable that porre with their new weapon, elements, would by far over power guardia's, limited population of magic users.

[ShoeMagus]

Here's a thought as to why Crono and Marle couldn't have staved off an attack:

What if Porre wasn't in it alone? There's bound to be people lying around that would turn on Guardia in an instant. I mean there's Ozzie's descendent, probably not too happy about being a servant when his ancestor was the right hand man of the champion of the Mystics.

And of course if Porre's leader was charismatic enough, could part of the kingdom have been subverted? Maybe thats where the Fall of Guardia really occured. Its possible that the people of Guardia were convinced that their kingdom was outdated. With the ongoing modernization, perhaps Porre's leader managed to turn the tables on Crono and Marle. And would Crono and Marle want to killl their own people? I doubt it very highly. I imagine that they would defend as best as they can and escape given the chance.

Here's a question though: Who WAS Killed in the FMV of the Fall of Guardia? Someone important? Maybe whatever passed for Knight Commander at the time? A descendent of Glenn? Or maybe just some foolhardy soldier that took up the Masamune in desperation.

[Magus068]

Simple, Porre had advance technolgy at their disposal and on top of that  they have magic.   A horde of Porrean army with an arsenal like that will surely overwhelm Guardia.  Crono & Marle fought bravely & they retreated but as long as the king lives, Guardia will rise again(this reminds me of The Vision of Escaflowne.)

[Chrono'99]

Its possible that the people of Guardia were convinced that their kingdom was outdated. With the ongoing modernization, perhaps Porre's leader managed to turn the tables on Crono and Marle. And would Crono and Marle want to killl their own people? I doubt it very highly. I imagine that they would defend as best as they can and escape given the chance.

I really like this theory. I thought about it too once but the problem with it is that we clearly see Truce in flame with villagers dead and scattered around... If the people were on Porre's side, who would have massacred them?

Maybe it's the guy who stole the Masamune who killed them, he would have been driven berserk and not be representative of Porre as a whole. He would basically be the "incident" that Masato Kato mentioned in the interview.

Or maybe Guardia is actually responsible... If Porre gained a new, charismatic and aggressive leader, maybe Guardia did too? This wouldn't have been a new King of course, but maybe a new general or a new chancellor... Then, seeing the population going revolutionary, this general could have ordered the army, or a small rogue faction of it, to massacre the rebels purely and simply (stuff like that happened in real history). The King, Marle and Crono would have been in the middle of all that crap and not know what to do... There would be an awful lot of different factions in Guardia, which would explain why Radius in 1,020 AD says that Guardia is not the "peaceful country" that it used to be.

[ShoeMagus]

Well turning Guardia's own citizens against Crono and Marle only had to go on for so long. When the actual invasion came, who knows what could have happened. If the leader of Porre was someone like Dalton, then he wouldn't care too much about the citizens of Guardia. All he would have to do is convince some to betray the kingdom. Then he could go in and torch the place. And who knows. Later he could blame it on Guardia soldiers and Crono's magical powers.

But just speculation.

[Chrono'99]

The "betrayal" motif was used in RD too (an Acacian betrayed Viper and allowed Lynx to invade Gerzbühle). So that's interesting. Kato might have recycled the motif...

[Akuma]

It's obvious someone whether it was Crono, Dalton, Magus, or someone else took over Porre and then the whole Zenan Continent. Whoever he was, he certainly wasn't the peace-loving mayor and he most likely was from outside 1000 A.D.

Also people point to the berets they sell in Porre and use this to claim Porre has some military spirit in Crono's time. Well if I remember the berets can only be equipped by female characters. So much for that.