Comparison of Lavos and the Dragon God Anatomy/Origin

[X-SOLDIER]

I was looking at images of them (which are suprisingly difficult to find) and I was noticing that TD (the Dragon God form) bears a rather strong resemblance to CT's Lavos.

Dragon God



Lavos



Lavos Spawn


First of all there is the general grey spikey appearance. However there have always been a couple points about Lavos' anatomy that I have been curious about that MAY be cleared up by this.

If you look at the mouth of the Dragon God there's a bluish sphere that's surrounded by a pinkish flesh with darker circles. This is very similiar to Lavos' beak interior

Lavos also has small circles on either side of it's beak (8 total - four small green ones really close on each side in groups of 2. and 4 total red ones 2 each side that are farther out.) The Dragon God Also has several (though fewer) which leads me to believe that these would be the eyes on Lavos. Even the Lavos Spawn has these tiny yellow marks along the same location.

The final form of Lavos/TD in CC looks a lot more like a rock creature than CT's Lavos, it's almost as if Lavos' attributes were split between the two. This brings up a bit of a question about Lavos' origins as well. It may be that Lavos itself is a creature, and the "ultimate being" that it creates inside itself is held inside it, somewhat like a womb. This is the way that Lavos tests all the DNA it gathers to be able to use it to enhance itself. Also in CC's FMV sequence where the Dragon God is created reddish tentacles (I don't know what else to call them) reach out and pull the other dragons together. Lavos has similiar red lines along the sections of his body that are not as heavily covered in spines.

Since the Dragon God was a created being and bears such similiarities, I'd really like to know if Lavos was created in a similiar manner, or if it only holds those traits because it was consumed by TD. The Dragon God's purpose is VERY close to Lavos' as well. The Dragon God being a machine built to control nature itself by manipulating derivate forces of the physical world. And Lavos doing the same thing to become a more powerful entity. The are both sources of Magic on the worlds they are on, and both are most likely cybernitic organisms. This leads me to believe that Lavos was created, and at some point absorbed the genetic information of it's creators before destroying and vacating it's previous world.

There's probably a few facts that I've missed, and some that may be slightly off, but it's something that I'd very much like to discuss, so if anyone has something to input, by all means, post away!


X

[DeweyisOverrated]

You have a VERY sharp eye.

First off, if we're going to be talking about Lavos/Dragon God being modeled after each other, we'd have to say the Dragon God was modelled after Lavos.  Had Lavos not landed, there would be no Dragon God.  And Lavos wasn't created/didn't land because the Dragon God existed.

I think the biggest striking similarities, like you said, are the siky appearance, and the singular "eye" in the middle, with something that opens up around it.

Now, this raises a few question.  WAS it modelled after Lavos, or was is it a coincidence?  If it was modelled after Lavos, was it done-so by the Reptites, or were the artists just trying to maybe sneak something by us?

[X-SOLDIER]

One thing I was really wondering about it was that is the blue thing in the middle an eye, or are the eyes the little yellow circles by their mouths (they seem to have gone dark in Lavos' case). It ALWAYS seemed to be a BAD genetic trait to have a big blue eye in your mouth that you fire attacks from, and is closed half the time. That's why I think that the points are indeed the creature's eyes. What the Blue orb in the center is, I can't really say. I'll be going home in a few hours and checking the PSX FMV's to see if I can see anything on that version of Lavos.

If they are indeed modeled after each other, there's a large possibility that Lavos was created, yet is a (cybernetic) organism (reaching a middle groud in the debate). As you said, it's likely the Dragon God was modeled after Lavos, but I don't know much about the Dragon science since it's been a while since I've made my way through CC, and I don't know how specifically it was discussed. I don't know how they would have been able to obtain any information from Lavos to copy it though.

Either way, I'm sure that there's some connection and it will probably help to create a slightly better understanding of where Lavos came from / what it is.


X

[Chrono'99]

Belthasar:
   That thing...
   the '"Dragon God"'...
   is only a quasi-existence...
   ...A temporary form that
   the real Dragon God uses
   in order to appear within
   this dimension.

Belthasar:
   The actual Dragon God
   was consumed long ago,
   in the distant past...
   Integrated by the entity
   known as Lavos in a time
   on the other side of the
   dimensional darkness.

Belthasar's quote can be interpreted in more than one way I guess, but in my opinion what he basically says is that the Dragon God that we see appears so only because of its link with the Time Devourer. Belthasar doesn't even call it a creature, he says "that thing".

I believe the actual, real Dragon God was not supposed to be like this. It was probably more dragon-like, less Lavos-like, and less... dark and evil-looking.

[Mystik3eb]

Even so, I still say they look "similar" rather than "alike". They have similar features. Big whoop. Look inside your mouth. It looks the same as the Omnidragon, minus the blue thingy. Yay. Many species' mouths look like that. Like my dog's.

I'm not saying the Dragon God that Serge fights doesn't have those similarities to Lavos because of the relationship it shares with the TD, as Belthy says. Cuz that might be the case, even though I'd never considered it and don't personally agree with it...but what the hey.

[Zaperking]

That orb in it's mouth could be like a tounge. Why? From what it looks like what happened, It retracted Harle into it, and she merged with it.

Anyway, like Mystik3eb said, I think they look similar. I don't think it's because of the TD absorbing the Dragon God, but because the artists just did it that way to make the Dragon look evil, since it kind of is in a way, but it paradox's itself in the fact that it is the planet's energy incarnate, and yet it's a part of Lavos now.

But then theres the other thing. The split of the dragons. If the Dragon God was created by combining the 6 elements first, and then the Frozen Flame split them up and then they became singular beings with their own personalities, that kind of seperates them from Lavos. If their power was absorbed, but they can exist in the world because of those stars and moons and because of the planet's power points, it doesn't seem as if they'd be Lavos. Heck, it was their projections that remerged, not the actual TD part thing.

First off, if we're going to be talking about Lavos/Dragon God being modeled after each other, we'd have to say the Dragon God was modelled after Lavos. Had Lavos not landed, there would be no Dragon God. And Lavos wasn't created/didn't land because the Dragon God existed.

Actually, the Dragon God would exist since the Reptities would exist and use the planets power to create the Dragon God. There was always going to be two dimensions, because Lavos' landing was a big event that caused two paths to happen. So either way, if Lavos didn't land, a Dragon God would exist, but humans wouldn't.

[X-SOLDIER]

Even so, I still say they look "similar" rather than "alike". They have similar features. Big whoop. Look inside your mouth. It looks the same as the Omnidragon, minus the blue thingy. Yay. Many species' mouths look like that. Like my dog's.

I'm not saying the Dragon God that Serge fights doesn't have those similarities to Lavos because of the relationship it shares with the TD, as Belthy says. Cuz that might be the case, even though I'd never considered it and don't personally agree with it...but what the hey.

I sincerely hope that your dog doent have something that looks like that inside it's mouth... But other than that, I'm curious if the relationship is because of TD or not, and just 'an artist thing' or if there was a meaning behind it.

That orb in it's mouth could be like a tounge. Why? From what it looks like what happened, It retracted Harle into it, and she merged with it.

Anyway, like Mystik3eb said, I think they look similar. I don't think it's because of the TD absorbing the Dragon God, but because the artists just did it that way to make the Dragon look evil, since it kind of is in a way, but it paradox's itself in the fact that it is the planet's energy incarnate, and yet it's a part of Lavos now.

But then theres the other thing. The split of the dragons. If the Dragon God was created by combining the 6 elements first, and then the Frozen Flame split them up and then they became singular beings with their own personalities, that kind of seperates them from Lavos. If their power was absorbed, but they can exist in the world because of those stars and moons and because of the planet's power points, it doesn't seem as if they'd be Lavos. Heck, it was their projections that remerged, not the actual TD part thing.

First off, if we're going to be talking about Lavos/Dragon God being modeled after each other, we'd have to say the Dragon God was modelled after Lavos. Had Lavos not landed, there would be no Dragon God. And Lavos wasn't created/didn't land because the Dragon God existed.

Actually, the Dragon God would exist since the Reptities would exist and use the planets power to create the Dragon God. There was always going to be two dimensions, because Lavos' landing was a big event that caused two paths to happen. So either way, if Lavos didn't land, a Dragon God would exist, but humans wouldn't.

If it's not a relationship because of TD's influence, then either it's just artists making it evil, or there's some guess that Lavos is a similiar type of being in it's origins.

Another thing that occured to me was that the Dragons are Seperate entities combined into the Dragon God, and Lavos is other entities DNA combined to an ultimate being.

As for HOW it was created, is there any specific detail we can being up about the Dragon God's creation..?

[Chrono'99]

Belthasar:
   The Dragon Gods were originally
   a singular plasma life-form...
   ...A living accumulation of the
   planet's energy!
   Originally it was a biological
   machine used to control the
   powers of nature in the future
   society of the Reptites.

[AuraTwilight]

And it's highly implied the Dragon God was corrupted by Lavos.

[X-SOLDIER]

Chrono'99 - Thanks for all the game quotes, they've really been helpful.

My main question that I'd like to get a couple more opinons on is - if the Dragon God's appearance is directly an influence of TD, or if it could be due to SOME similiarity in it's and Lavos' origin, or if it's merely an artwork scheme with no other connection.

(On a related note, do you think that there's any similarities that Lavos Merges with Schala and the Dragon God merges with Harle?)

[Zaperking]

Well, Schala is like the progency of Lavos. Harle is the Progency of the Dragon God.

[AuraTwilight]

You mean the Progeny? Which means "Spawn, Children, offspring"? That might be true for Harle's relationship with the dragons, but Schala is not Lavos' kid.

(On a related note, do you think that there's any similarities that Lavos Merges with Schala and the Dragon God merges with Harle?)

Their fusions are pretty different. Harle was a component required for the Dragon God's completion. Lavos simply merged with Schala to promote it's evolution, and is unnatural. Furthermore, Harle is completely absorbed, while Schala is still an indepedent entity that only got halfway fused with Lavos. However, Harle was made with Schala's DNA.

[Zaperking]

You mean the Progeny? Which means "Spawn, Children, offspring"? That might be true for Harle's relationship with the dragons, but Schala is not Lavos' kid.

(On a related note, do you think that there's any similarities that Lavos Merges with Schala and the Dragon God merges with Harle?)

Their fusions are pretty different. Harle was a component required for the Dragon God's completion. Lavos simply merged with Schala to promote it's evolution, and is unnatural. Furthermore, Harle is completely absorbed, while Schala is still an indepedent entity that only got halfway fused with Lavos. However, Harle was made with Schala's DNA.

Well, Schala only got to being Schala thanks to Lavos' Frozen Flame that her ancestors touched. The Reptites make it pretty clear that the humans would have been different, and are un natural thanks to him.

As for Harle. I wouldn't really say she's a component. The Dragon God always existed, and then was split. I'm thinking that by creating Harle when FATE was down allowed them to have a physical sister out in the world. Then when FATE was down again, The Dragon's projections could come together, and Harle's true presence in the dimension would make them come back to life or something similar where they regain their true physical body.

But I agree on Schala. I wouldn't say it was a true fusion. Lavos may be absorbing her DNA and power for all we know, as she owns anyone. Magus was on his knees from a rebound blow of Lavos draining his power in one touch, but look at Schala. After who knows how long of  a period, she is still alive.

[X-SOLDIER]

So then would it be safe to say that the relationship is not merely artistic in nature??

[AuraTwilight]

Well, Schala only got to being Schala thanks to Lavos' Frozen Flame that her ancestors touched. The Reptites make it pretty clear that the humans would have been different, and are un natural thanks to him.

That's a bit different than being created directly by him. And even then, it was only a mutation. A scientist doesn't shoot mutant DNA in some dude then call him his son.

As for Harle. I wouldn't really say she's a component. The Dragon God always existed, and then was split. I'm thinking that by creating Harle when FATE was down allowed them to have a physical sister out in the world. Then when FATE was down again, The Dragon's projections could come together, and Harle's true presence in the dimension would make them come back to life or something similar where they regain their true physical body.

Yes, but it's not like the Dragon Gods can just conjure energy out of their ass. They had to invest some of their essence in her.