Sinking In The Truth, The Truth Sinks In -- A Global Warming

[Magus22]

it's attracted bears to garages.

hee hee


well this type of diesel is very good, non toxic i think

and there aren't that many emissions to harm the ozone

[Radical_Dreamer]

it's attracted bears to garages.

hee hee


well this type of diesel is very good, non toxic i think

and there aren't that many emissions to harm the ozone

It's cleaner than petrol diesel, but it still pollutes if you don't have a hydrogen injection system.

[Magus22]

so we'd need a lot of those hydro injection systems then in everything were to be converted to diesel

sounds like it would work,i just looked up the diesel you were talking about . . . i am convinced

[Radical_Dreamer]

so we'd need a lot of those hydro injection systems then in everything were to be converted to diesel

sounds like it would work,i just looked up the diesel you were talking about . . . i am convinced

The injection system will work with gasoline as well, although we should phase that out as quickly as possible. Hydrogen injection is still pricy and bulky for commuter vehicles, but I think in ten years (hopefully sooner) it'll be hard to buy a car without one. They're like fuel injectors: the benefits are so obvious that it's merely a matter of economics before everyone has them.

[Magus22]

didn't Bush say we'd be driving hydrogen powered cars or something like that . . . like along time ago in one of his speeches

i forgot wat year he said we be driving them

but look, it's 2006 and I havn't heard anything since


ideas like this particular injection system may be pricy and a strain on our infrastructure in the economy

but if it helps sooth our problems with the ozone and prevent global warming (possibly inevitable?) then we'll definately be in a better position

[Radical_Dreamer]

didn't Bush say we'd be driving hydrogen powered cars or something like that . . . like along time ago in one of his speeches

i forgot wat year he said we be driving them

but look, it's 2006 and I havn't heard anything since


ideas like this particular injection system may be pricy and a strain on our infrastructure in the economy

but if it helps sooth our problems with the ozone and prevent global warming (possibly inevitable?) then we'll definately be in a better position

Ignore everything Bush says about science. It's based on nothing.

However, BMW has said that this generation would be the one where they start selling hydrogen powered cars. Still waiting on that one. They have them, mind you. In fact, they have cars that run on hydrogen or gasoline. So does Mazda. Honda and GM also have hydrogen cars, but I don't know if they have dual-mode engines. Trouble isn't the cars, it's finding a clean, safe, cheap, and reliable means of extracting and transporting the hydrogen.

[Lord J Esq]

No point to make a new thread. Here's the latest from the Ivory Tower: Global warming is likely irreversible. It's on the wire, but you can read it here if googling is too much out of your way.

Conservatives might like the last paragraph:

Sea levels have been rising for thousands of years as an aftereffect of the warming and polar melting that followed the last ice age, which ended about 10,000 years ago. Discriminating between that residual effect and any new influence from human actions remains impossible for the moment, many experts say.

...but then they'd (still) be missing the reason I originally made this thread:

One team, using computer models of climate and ice, found that by about 2100, average temperatures could be 4 degrees warmer than today and that over the coming centuries, the world's oceans could rise 13 to 20 feet -- conditions last seen 130,000 years ago, between the last two ice ages.

As fun as it will be to blame conservatives the world over for contributing to this disastrous evolution of the world, it would probably be more prudent to focus on damage control. To paraphrase the mind of George W. Bush, let's all drink more water and get those sea levels down. Preferably Dasani or Aquafina. You're either paying a dollar for twelve ounces of water, or you're with the terrorists.

[Maelstrom]

You're either paying a dollar for twelve ounces of water, or you're with the terrorists.

Heh.

Of course, you don't have to measure overall air temperature to realize we are screwing with the environment.  Actual greenhouses show that increasing CO2 will result in temperature increases, and we are releasing CO2 into the environment, so while there may be disputes about the scale of our damage, it's silly to say we are doing no damage.

[Lord J Esq]

Actual greenhouses show that increasing CO2 will result in temperature increases, and we are releasing CO2 into the environment, so while there may be disputes about the scale of our damage, it's silly to say we are doing no damage.

I am amazed at how many people miss that point, or simply do not care. Sentenal himself, who is somewhat representative of your typical American conservative, said in this very thread that he is more concerned about liberals using global warming as an opportunity to push what he called "the socialist agenda," than he was about the major ramifications of climate change. Too many people feel like he does, believing that because we do not know what share of global warming is the product of human industry, therefore our share effectively does not matter, and we should not trifle with the sacred cow of free market economics. Meanwhile, that ice keeps on a-meltin', and very few people even give a damn, because the timescales of decades and centuries are "way after tomorrow" to these folks, and thus are not an important cause for concern in their lives--an irony that Chrono Trigger fans in particular should better appreciate.

The amount of ignorance in this topic is astounding, to the exhaust of all humor and frivolity. Even otherwise intelligent people herein have revealed to understand neither the phenomenon of climate change itself nor its profound and inexorable consequences. If only there were a tax on armchair expertise!

[Magus22]

try to show a little optimism there Lord J

u informed us or at least some of us nontheless

it's up to EVERY1 here to go ahead with it or block it from our daily activities as a concern

[Mystik3eb]

J, I may have missed it, but what is it you want people to do about it? Besides get the idea that 'it's real' in their heads, I mean.

[Lord J Esq]

J, I may have missed it, but what is it you want people to do about it? Besides get the idea that 'it's real' in their heads, I mean.

Ultimately, I want people to realize that we are responsible for ourselves, for others, and for the world. There is no one else to assume this mantle in our stead. I want to have a future.

Imagine we were all of us the crew aboard a square-rigged galleon in the Age of Sail. Can you imagine it? Mistakes carry consequences; nature is powerful; ignorance can send us all to the bottom. I want people to stop being so shortsighted and selfish, and from there to stop wallowing in their carefully crafted cynical rejection of human nature, and, thus, to understand and accept that civilization is a serious thing, where "almost" is not a prize.

In everyday life we can be fools and idiots and pay no price for it. Look at every person in this thread who has purported to know a damn about anything, to the contradiction of reality. But outside the protective illusion that ignorance is bliss and society will persist through no action of our own, the universe is a dangerous place and life is too precious a gift to waste.

Cast the fools who would spurn self-awareness, cast them into the rising sea...our own personal Jonah, the breathing curse who walks among our number, who plagues us and imperils us without reprieve. What is global warming but a more obvious display of the weakminded corpses that comprise the vast bulk of our collective human flesh? What is global warming but a cruel joke played upon minds too inept to understand their own disgrace? They who live and die in the brightest, most impenetrable fog, they the ignorant!

I want people to get out of my way. They are welcome to join me on The Bridge That Does Not Lead To Oblivion, or to cast themselves into the pits below, but they had best make way. I nill forfeit my future on their unworthy behalf.

Ignorance, the ultimate enemy, the only evil! Global warming is life. It is reality. It is a challenging phenomenon with which we must contend, and therefore come to better understand. Ignorance is not tolerable. Not plain ignorance, not willful ignorance, not delusional ignorance, not apathetic ignorance. Let the light of knowledge bleed into the darkness of the unknown, and illuminate all who will persist into this simple, not-too-much-to-ask little idea some of us have, called The Future. If people would just read the bloody articles posted in this thread, that would be a basic, minimal start. But instead this thread is rife with the incoherent self-aggrandizements of people who think they can think knowledge into being! Do I really need to quote? Reread this thread yourself; it is a disgrace to anyone with a sixth grade education and two shreds of dignity.

To answer your question.

[Maelstrom]

Ah yes, that's the big question, isn't it?  What will/can we actually do about global warming or any other issue?

Presumably we can let this issue *affect* (not necessarily decide) who we vote for, but obviously that will upset those conservative types (even if it is their party's fault they don't stand ecological responsibility).

Another is to petition our representatives and/or corporations to have higher standards adhered to, although there's a nice perception that neither will respond to us, and the latter will probably harvest any personal information you include and use it in their marketing.

A third method is to find others who agree with your concerns and stage a protest.  (Of course, this is why it is important to make others aware this is a problem; you need numbers to stand out, after all).  Sizable protests have a little more hope of bringing about change, but there are obviously risks/costs at play.

1) Protests take more work that voting responsibly or sending petitions.  This includes planning and recruiting, but you also have to consider the toll (economic, energy, and whatnot) it will take on your fellow protestors.
2) Be ready for bad things: People will be hostile to you, typically out of ignorance or out of feeling threatened.  They will call you hippies (whatever), unpatriotic (untrue, you're the ones actually giving a damn about your country's future), and terrorists (just idiotic).
3) Be ready for really bad things: Others may try to incite your group to become violent, or there may be wolves in sheep'ss clothing (or is it the other way around?) that may try to sabotage your protest.

Regarding #2 and #3, obviously there are fears to overcome, but just as we should not give in to the terrorists of al Qaeda, we shouldn't give in to those here, that would terrorize us into tolerating the status quo, either.

[Sentenal]

Josh, I believe that liberals using this to push a socialist agenda is more of a pressing issue, since that leads to communism and lose of freedom.  Sure, Global Warming is a problem.  I also don't believe we are the cause of it, nor is there a whole lot we can do about it.  I don't believe that our industry is to blame.  Plus, I'm not "Doom and Gloom" about this.  I have my faith, so I have my own ideas about how the future will pan out.  I don't believe SUVs are going to destroy/doom civilazations, however.

*sigh*  My will to argue with you has died, since its not like your going to listen to me.

[Maelstrom]

Reducing our own impact on global warming does not necessarily lead society to socialism.  It's only an aspect of socialism, and not everything about socialism is bad, nor is every aspect of capitalism good.  Ultimately, your society ought to find some compromise between the two, because "pure" versions of each are really bad (see Gilded Age in the late 19th century, and "communist" Russia/China).  After all, people in neither system are free: communism because no one has wealth, and capitalism because the many are at the mercy of the few.