Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[Legend of the Past]

You know what we need over there? Separation of church and state. Have a secular nation, and let people practice whatever religion they want. But if we can't manage it in America, no way we'll be able to manage it there. (Canada and certain European countries, on the other hand, do seem to be able to manage it.)

Wouldn't that be nice? Unfortunately, everyone would not agree because of their bias towards like everything in life. Everyone should have a right to practice their own religion (regarding flying planes into buildings for Mohammed, stupid towel heads like them need to get slapped) freely. But their will always be opposition of the people in regards to certain religious beliefs.

I wish some day we will all stop harming one another and killing each other. When will that time come when we finally say, what the hell are we doing, and why did we ever do shit like that?

Shockingly enough, the majority of Israelis support this. However, the orthodox Jews are very much considered of having a powerful pull over things. That's why we don't have a constitution; the Orthodox say 'But we have the Bible! Who needs a stinkin' constitution?' To this I would reply: 'Any country that wants to be unified. Like us.'
 
Oh, and Leebot, when discussion Israel, avoid saying seperation of 'Church and state'. That line is wrong due to the region we're discussing. And state. Of course, you're right. We need that, but like I said... I just hope this problem gets by.

[Lord J Esq]

Nuke them. Nuke them all. This moronic issue will be argued and fought to death until one side or the other has no one left. And you all know that. I'd rather both sides be eliminated than EVER allow one side to win, frankly no one deserves it.

What a grotesque suggestion, the more so because of the ignorance in which it was borne. I should rather we nuke the naysayers.

[Sentenal]

Yeah. You are right. Too bad Britain went behind the Palestinians back and did something the Palestinians didnt want. See, Israelis DID live in palestine before, but because the Zionist movement wanted their own state, they had to go and get their own state. The Israel went off to conquer Syria and Egypt (well parts)

Wait, let me get this straight.  Right now, your for the Palastinians getting their own state, but against the exact same thing for the Jews 60 years ago?  Double standard, anyone?

[Burning Zeppelin]

You know what we need over there? Separation of church and state. Have a secular nation, and let people practice whatever religion they want. But if we can't manage it in America, no way we'll be able to manage it there. (Canada and certain European countries, on the other hand, do seem to be able to manage it.)

Wouldn't that be nice? Unfortunately, everyone would not agree because of their bias towards like everything in life. Everyone should have a right to practice their own religion (regarding flying planes into buildings for Mohammed, stupid towel heads like them need to get slapped) freely. But their will always be opposition of the people in regards to certain religious beliefs.

I wish some day we will all stop harming one another and killing each other. When will that time come when we finally say, what the hell are we doing, and why did we ever do shit like that?

Oh yeah. Totally. They're doing it for Muhammad. I mean ALL Muslims believe that a dead person wishes them to fly planes into buildings  

None of you would believe me, but no Muslims want war. Period. Except in the "Final Days" context...

Lol. Towel heads. Good one  

[Leebot]

None of you would believe me, but no Muslims want war. Period. Except in the "Final Days" context...

Oh, I believe you. I have some familiarity with Islam, and I know that it on the whole advocates peace and tolerance. Judging Islam by those terrorists is like judging Christianity by the Ku Klux Klan.

[Legend of the Past]

I know Jihad never meant blowing yourself up on the bus, but history does state that Muhammad wasn't very good with keeping promises. That draws similarities with Arafat.

[Daniel Krispin]

Need one really bring religion into this?
I seriously think that this is in no measure a religous conflict, but almost solely a political - and racial - one. A land war, essentially. It's true that there are those few that use it as a way to band fantatics to their cause - and maybe, just maybe, a few of such leaders that actually believe it themselves. But by and large, I think those people are essentially after power, or a legacy, or some such thing. If they think they're doing it for God, it is their own ambition that has corrupted their faith till the point where they still see it as faith, but all it is is bloodlust masked with the name of religion. And it gives their faith a very bad name in the process.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but the idea of going to war against another people on religious grounds seems so foreign. Or maybe it's my western upbringing that instilled that in me. But for most of history, religion has just been an apt excuse for the warmonger. Ever since the old kings of the ancient world claimed their divine right to rule the world, since Assyria's kings went to war in conquest in the name of the god Ashur... and all the way down to such things as the Hundred Years War, the cause of religion has been a mask for the bloodthirsty people with political ambition. But for me... I can never see myself thinking 'God wants these people killed.'

[Legend of the Past]

You can't avoid going into religion here. Religion is the reason the Jews insisted on setteling here (It's a well known fact we could have been at Oganda, but chose not to because Israel is our religious home). Arabic terrorist organizations use religion to draw the masses around themselves and, excuse the term, brainwash citizens to become terrorist-bombers.

Asking us to take religion out of this is like asking to take out colonisation out of a discussion about the indians. You take out the reason. Right now it's a political struggle, but it started as religous and still has religion has quiet it's roots in it.

[Lord J Esq]

None of you would believe me, but no Muslims want war. Period. Except in the "Final Days" context...

Oh, I believe you. I have some familiarity with Islam, and I know that it on the whole advocates peace and tolerance. Judging Islam by those terrorists is like judging Christianity by the Ku Klux Klan.

Why should the observances of these religious people over here somehow overrule the observances of those religious people over there? On whose mortal authority are the peaceniks of Islam judged to be “truer” Muslims than those who believe in bringing war to their enemies? Join me below as I reply to Daniel Krispin’s post…

Need one really bring religion into this? I seriously think that this is in no measure a religous conflict, but almost solely a political - and racial - one. A land war, essentially.

If “this” is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or even the broader instability of the Middle East in general, it would be impossible not to bring religion into the discussion. Religion is at the heart of these conflicts. Perhaps your belief that religion has always been the victim of aggression rather than the perpetrator of it would influence your otherwise historically considerate mind.

There are political games afoot in the Middle East; this much is true. Every government in the region has its own strategic interests, and politics could no more be excluded from the equation than religion. I grant you this point without debate.

On the other hand, I would disagree completely that this is a “racial” conflict. Judaism is a religion, not a race, and many Jews consider it a slur to be referred to as their own racial group—for obvious reasons. Certainly many enemies of Israel or of Jews would like to think of Jews as comprising an inferior race, but these considerations have little biological veracity and the continuous dispersions of the historical Jewish people have actually given Jews a noteworthy racial diversity when considered as a group. If we must speak racially, many native Israelis are Semites—as are many Arabs. The Middle Eastern conflicts, and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular, are not Semitic in motivation.

As an aside, you did not mention the word specifically, but there is room to ask whether Judaism is an ethnicity. This depends on how you define ethnicity, and I personally would not consider it to be a productive discussion in this context, because the same people who like to think of Judaism as a race are apt to call it an ethnicity as well, and then allege “Same thing.”

So far we have it that you are right about the conflict as containing a measure of political intrigue, and wrong about it as being racist in nature. Therefore when you describe a “land war,” you are saying the right thing for the wrong reasons. Yes, the dispute between Israel and its neighbors, including the Palestinian territories in particular, and between the various Arab states who are fond of quarreling amongst themselves as well, is certainly a “land war,” but this is not a war for oil or farmland. This is a war over sacred land—at least in the eyes of the combatants—which absolutely necessitates a religious component. The additional factor is the strategic defense of each of the nations involved; no one wants to be drawn off the map. Nevertheless, it is overwhelmingly a set of religious rather than strategic concerns that make Israel such a tempting foe for Muslims. Be open-minded and admit this truth; this is not your religion under the microscope, and so you have nothing to lose.

It's true that there are those few that use [religion] as a way to band fantatics to their cause - and maybe, just maybe, a few of such leaders that actually believe it themselves. But by and large, I think those people are essentially after power, or a legacy, or some such thing. If they think they're doing it for God, it is their own ambition that has corrupted their faith till the point where they still see it as faith, but all it is is bloodlust masked with the name of religion. And it gives their faith a very bad name in the process.

This is what Leebot mentioned, in so many words: the old “hijacked religion” belief. By this theory, when religious people commit crimes in the name of their religion, a chorus arises to sing that these people are not genuine believers taken by holy zeal, but evil terrorists and thugs whose interests are selfish and unrighteous. This is a very common argument nowadays, used by conciliatory but shortsighted people to defend against blanket statements like “all Muslims want to kill Americans.” Yet for all its good intentions this bit of rhetoric is just plain phony, and I will tell you why:

Step outside of every religion, just for a moment, and look at the world from an agnostic point of view: The Earth is crawling with competing faiths, most of which contrarily claim that their dogma alone is God’s Truth. These religions can’t all be right, and even at best the vast majority of them are wrong. Stepping back into your own religion, you can agree: Yours is right; theirs are not.

As it goes between the world’s religions, so it goes between the adherents of any one religion. Every religion on Earth has sects or denominations which represent conflicting dogma within a larger religious mythos. Christianity is famous for its extremely diverse, wildly violent sectarianism. But Islam has its own sects too, which are famous in their own right for fighting incessantly with one another in the name of a Higher plan. You can agree with this, too; you admitted once to being an unapologetic, old-world Lutheran, and you have gone out of your way to impose it upon me that you distance yourself from the tactics and beliefs of the American Religious Right. So those “other Christians” over there are out of line, yes? Prolly going to Hell, too. Well, you can bet that most people who belong to a religious sect with your degree of fervor feel the same way you do.

As it goes between sects, so it goes between individuals. Religious sects never represent a harmony of thought. The only religious harmony in the world is the solo, and individuals who belong to the same religion and the same sect in that religion will still find “very important” points of contention amongst themselves, worthy in their eyes of an unending quarrel. If the infighting gets bad enough, old leaders will be deposed, or new sects will form, or a massacre will silence the opposition. But the fighting always continues. Everybody thinks they alone are right, either they themselves or their surrogate demagogues, and their quarreling outpaces the multitudes and outlives the generations. No devout person has ever sincerely told me, “I am against God’s Will in this, while my enemies’ ways are true.” At the end of the day, religious people all want exactly the same thing: They want to be acknowledged that their particular faith is God’s Own. And many of them will die, and kill, for that acknowledgement. That is religious zeal.

What is so pathetic is that the acknowledgement they crave is not God’s, but those of their fellow human beings, which brings me back to my original question: Who among us is authorized to judge this? Who among us in the mortal world has the authority to say “I speak for GOD”? When two people look at the same Bible verse and draw divergent conclusions, who arbitrates the dispute? Likewise, who gets to decide that Muslims whose zeal compels them to dive-bomb skyscrapers are less “Muslim” than those who would abhor the violent slaughter of civilian lives and the wanton destruction of valuable property? The holy texts themselves? Nope. Religious extremism is almost always the product of people acting in their faith. What was it that Luther himself did? Was that selfish terrorism, do you think?

Don’t tell me about Cardinals and fatwahs. The same question arises again: Who invests these Cardinals with their power? Who declares the Sheiks to be representative of God’s Will? Even if the holy texts really are the Word of God, who resolves disputes in the interpretation? Who has the power to speak for God?

At the end of the day, any institution on Earth that claims to possess this authority is lying to itself, and deluding its people. Religions strive for a unified, official dogma, leading to the creation of councils and hierarchies and orders, but these artifices are always going to be the handiwork of human beings. Yes, yes, each will claim that God has blessed or otherwise sanctioned the legitimacy of whatever council, but that is just another statement of what I said before: Everyone thinks their own faith is the real McCoy. No one can prove their claim; it is always a matter of faith.

The fact of the matter is, Daniel—and you too, Leebot—that for every Mother Theresa there is a Grand Inquisitor Torquemada. We may wish, for our own selfish purposes, to believe that one was God’s child while the other was not, but the faith of these two people was sincere, and the same ineffability of faith that the devout claim protects their religion from the realities of science and industry, also prevents them from ever passing absolute judgment as to the sincerity and righteousness of their fellow human beings. The same shield that protects their belief from reality, isolates each believer unto his or her own, lonely island.

I am prepared to accept that the terrorists who struck us on September 11 were sincere, devout Muslims, whose actions were honestly committed in God’s name, not for their own glory but for His, not for their own vengeance but for His. I am prepared to accept that just as I am prepared to accept the claims of those who call themselves Muslim but would categorically renounce such destructive deeds. Anybody gets to belong to whatever religion they want, and they get to interpret their religion however they want. Whether or not their faith is true is a matter for them and God, not for you or I.

So consider this, Daniel Krispin: You are not God. You have no authority to decide which Muslims are true Muslims. It is not going to destroy your faith to admit that the faith of other people is, however misplaced, equally sincere. And to deny this truth further, will disservice none more than you. You speak crudely of ambition, but ambition is not an enemy of the Almighty. It is the enabler of our own will. What we do with our willpower can be holy, or profane. Do not dismiss criminal acts as inherently, implicitly, or unknowingly nonreligious, when the perpetrators of these acts sincerely devote their earthly actions to a Higher power. You have no authority to decide what another person’s faith will be.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but the idea of going to war against another people on religious grounds seems so foreign.

Your faith is an interesting country.

[GrayLensman]

It's a well known fact we could have been at Oganda, but chose not to because Israel is our religious home.

I looked up Uganda on Wikipedia, and I'm genuinely curious how that would have turned out.

[Burning Zeppelin]

I realize that on the Jewish side its all about religion, but Islam has nothing to do with this. Them (the Palestinians) would not listen to anything lest it be a command from God. Thats why rebels are using terrorism, as a grounds to gain the support of the masses. Except for the age old "Islam~Jew Hatred" which basically started with Zionism (If God wants us to kill Jews so much, why are they a protected religion in an Islamic Caliphate?    ), religion on the Muslims side doesn't come in here. You must realize that not all Palestinians are Muslim. Many are Christian, and quite a lot are actually Jewish. So basically, you're right Legend.

None of you would believe me, but no Muslims want war. Period. Except in the "Final Days" context...

Oh, I believe you. I have some familiarity with Islam, and I know that it on the whole advocates peace and tolerance. Judging Islam by those terrorists is like judging Christianity by the Ku Klux Klan.

Why should the observances of these religious people over here somehow overrule the observances of those religious people over there? On whose mortal authority are the peaceniks of Islam judged to be “truer” Muslims than those who believe in bringing war to their enemies?

Why you ask? The whole goal of Islam was to make the Muslim people, or ummah one. It is basically forbidden to split the Ummah into sects. That is why so many sheiks and imams and what have you say.

"Boy...if anyone asks you whether you are Shi'ite or Sunni...say you are a Muslim"

The point of that was is that Josh said that why are peaceful muslims deemed truer Muslims than warmongers. Whose authority you say? Well, most Muslims believe in God...so I would say...wait...umm...possibly...God. Seriously, you may think that war is a giant part of Islam, but it is not. I don't see war in the things that make you a Muslim. I however see giving to the poor a necessity. How 'bout the fact that patience and cleansliness are some of the giant parts in being a Muslim?

This is definetely not a racial conflict (I hate when people call this a war -.- ) and quite possibly not a religious one. This is Land, plain and simple. It is not because it is holy. It is the land. Land. The most precious, most fought over, most loved possession. Strangely enough, the thing is that this denies Arafat his martydom. He is not fighting for God. He is fighting for his people. Well, was. A cause that is noble, I'll give him that, but a cause not embedded into Islam. One could argue that he is fighting oppression. Josh will almost definetely take this the wrong way, but hey, I've grown to love him, and put up with his oh so cute antics.

And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. [2:191]

and turn them out from where they have Turned you out: if anything this is what the Muslims are using as a basis to attack the Israelis. However...Such is the reward of those who suppress faith: One could debate about this, and whether they actually are supressing faith or not.

More quotes, possibly to do with this topic...

   * "You are neither hard-hearted nor of fierce character, nor one who shouts in the markets. You do not return evil for evil, but excuse and forgive." (Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 362)

    * "Do not kill any old person, any child or any woman" (Abu Dawud)

    * "Do not kill the monks in monasteries" or "Do not kill the people who are sitting in places of worship". (Musnad of Ibn Hanbal)

Sunnis believe that one of the most general and encompassing rules of warfare in Islam was given by Abu Bakr to an Islamic army set out for Syria. Abu Bakr was Muhammad's first successor and is considered by Sunnis to have been his closest friend.

Abu Bakr is reputed to have said:

    * "Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone."

It is not like we don't want peace Josh. Christians do, Jews do, Hindus do, Buddhists do...and so forth. I know where you are going, but ask any Muslim on the street, and s/he will tell you that they wouldn't mind a world with all the religions, and that as long as there is peace, it is good. But I know where you are going, and sadly, you are almost definetely right.

I know Jihad never meant blowing yourself up on the bus, but history does state that Muhammad wasn't very good with keeping promises. That draws similarities with Arafat.

Explain. I'll counter you afterwards    and say how during his time, the Jewish tribes broke the promises too.

You can't avoid going into religion here. Religion is the reason the Jews insisted on setteling here (It's a well known fact we could have been at Oganda, but chose not to because Israel is our religious home). Arabic terrorist organizations use religion to draw the masses around themselves and, excuse the term, brainwash citizens to become terrorist-bombers.

Asking us to take religion out of this is like asking to take out colonisation out of a discussion about the indians. You take out the reason. Right now it's a political struggle, but it started as religous and still has religion has quiet it's roots in it.

Zionism

[Lord J Esq]

I realize that on the Jewish side its all about religion, but Islam has nothing to do with this.

Denial. How can you seriously deny that Islam is not a guiding factor in this regional conflict? In a single stroke you have missed the entire point of my last post, which is that we do not have the authority to decide who is interpreting his or her religion "correctly," and who is not. Islamic militancy is no less a part of Islam than is Islamic altruism. For all your claims that any Muslim would preach peace and tolerance, there are millions who want blood, and thousands who have taken it. You cannot defend your religion by saying that people who commit violence in service of the same god you worship are not true believers whose actions are sincere. Islamic scripture has enough invocations to violence, and more than enough room for interpretation of toward the same end, to provide a religious grounding for what has become the most bloodthirsty and violent religion in modern times. Why deny what is so brazenly obvious? Are you truly that naïve, or do you have an agenda?

Islam is not a place, or a people. When it comes to describing Islam's near-universal enmity toward Israel--and toward the West--what we are talking about is a religious grudge. Despite the assertions of the faithful, no religion is absolute in its nature. Every religion changes with the times as people demand different things from it. Islam has become the main opponent of the postindustrial developed world. To a large extent, Islamic hatred of Israel and of the West has always been religious in nature. However, to the extent this contempt was also rooted in geopolitics, Islam has since become the grounds for expressing and justifying that as well. Such is what Daniel meant when he said that those who conceal their actions in the shrouds of religion are not being true to that religion, but what he ignored--and what you have also failed to see--is that a religion answers to its practitioners, and not the other way around. No matter how immutable a holy text may be, there is a different interpretation of it for every pair of eyes on the planet. No matter how obvious "God's will" may seem to you, others will find it equally obvious that God's will is something quite different. It will always be this way, because religion denies rational truth in favor of personal faith. The scientific tools that might conclusively establish an "official" version of Islam, or any other religion, are always rejected by the devout. No sacular or sacred authority can impose itself on the faith of religious believers, because faith is inherently an irrational thing and answers to no external power. Not even God could resolve this mess, short of overriding the will of everybody on Earth. (Or cooking the books.) (In fact, most human institutions are like this; it is just as unreasonable to expect that one perfectly uniform political party comprising all citizens would result from the singularness of the US Constitution.)

Them (the Palestinians) would not listen to anything lest it be a command from God. Thats why rebels are using terrorism, as a grounds to gain the support of the masses. Except for the age old "Islam~Jew Hatred" which basically started with Zionism (If God wants us to kill Jews so much, why are they a protected religion in an Islamic Caliphate?    ), religion on the Muslims side doesn't come in here.

Zeppy, if your life were as miserable, or empty, as some people's are, and you felt that a particular Enemy was the cause of all your woe, you too might resort to terrorism in hopes of shedding your oppressor's yokes and improving the quality of life of yourself and those you care about. Terrorism is perfectly understandable, whether or not you would condone it yourself. Yet you speak of Palestinian militants as rebels, and their  tactic of choice you call terrorism. This is a misreading. Never mind that your "rebels" now control the Palestinian government; it is their religion that fuels their continuing hatred. It is their religion that is the aggressor in all of this, and not the bystander. Islam has become the conduit for their hate, just as it has for the hatred of Muslims everywhere on Earth. Islamic militancy resonates with ordinary Palestinian people and with Muslims all over the world--people who behead innocent civilians in Iraq, loot businesses and burn cars in France to protest their own inability to assimilate, and riot all over the Earth in revenge for a political cartoon. Christians have their own reasons for calling Islamic militancy "Islamofascism," but their phrase is not far from the truth. It is not the devilish work of terrorists who corrupt Islam for their own gains; it is Islam itself which gives form to these terrorists in the first place.

How could you deny it? Israel is a small, mostly arid country with few natural resources and no oil. There is no geographical reason for it to be so enormously despised. And the "Zionism" that you and many secular liberals vilify so ignorantly is just the cultural movement that led to Israel's creation in the first place, and the politics of its subsequent self-preservation. Zionism and Israel are inseparable; you cannot support one and not the other. Those who rail against Zionism are attacking Israel. And what is the only prize of any worth in Israel? Sacred land. Sacred land, as in "holy," or "reflecting religious values." And who controls Israel? The Jews! The fact that this thread exists at all, and has evolved into a repugnant "Where should Israel be relocated to?" game is just another piece of evidence supporting the overwhelmingly obvious truth that religion in general and Islam in particular are immensely rooted in this entire morass.

You must realize that not all Palestinians are Muslim. Many are Christian, and quite a lot are actually Jewish.

This is a red herring. The CIA World Factbook reports the Muslim population of the Gaza strip to be 98.7 percent, and 75 percent in the West Bank. It is not Christians and Jews who represent the prevailing character of the Palestinian people as a whole. Your attempts to mislead are rebuffed.

None of you would believe me, but no Muslims want war. Period. Except in the "Final Days" context...

Oh, I believe you. I have some familiarity with Islam, and I know that it on the whole advocates peace and tolerance. Judging Islam by those terrorists is like judging Christianity by the Ku Klux Klan.

Why should the observances of these religious people over here somehow overrule the observances of those religious people over there? On whose mortal authority are the peaceniks of Islam judged to be “truer” Muslims than those who believe in bringing war to their enemies?

Why you ask? The whole goal of Islam was to make the Muslim people, or ummah one. It is basically forbidden to split the Ummah into sects. That is why so many sheiks and imams and what have you say.

"Boy...if anyone asks you whether you are Shi'ite or Sunni...say you are a Muslim"

Leebot is simply wrong on this point; call it a misguided attempt to separate terrorism from its benefactor religion--and see my previous post.

As for you, Burning Z, I contest any number of your claims. I don't care if it is "forbidden" to split the Muslim people into sects; that is what has happened. By your logic, every Muslim in the world who affiliates with any sect is in violation of religious doctrine and is therefore somehow less of a Muslim. Poppycock! Shi'ite, Sunni...are these factions just a delusion? Is the civil war in Iraq just a bad dream? Will we wake up tomorrow and find that every Muslim alive has renounced all sectarianism? No. The divisions between Muslim sects, however ridiculous they may seem to nonreligious people like me (I like the way Jon Stewart described it), are sincere points of contention that many religious devouts believe to be irreconcilable.

The point of that was is that Josh said that why are peaceful muslims deemed truer Muslims than warmongers. Whose authority you say? Well, most Muslims believe in God...so I would say...wait...umm...possibly...God.

Let me try again to explain my point. Why are peaceful Muslims deemed truer to their god's will than warmonger Muslims? Because warmongers and pacifists alike claim to be of the same religion, and you--you, Burning Z--have no authority to say whether one party's claims are superior.

By appealing to the authority of God, you failed to understand the very crucial idea I have been describing in this post and in my last: You are not God. You have no authority to say what God thinks of the religious faith of others. Warmongers believe in God too, and they might say you are the one who is not a true Muslim. Are they wrong? Yes, they are as wrong as you are. No human being--and no religious order--has the divine authority to decide whether other people are sincere in their faith. God commands some to be tolerant; God commands others to shed blood. Only God can say whose deeds are good and whose are bad. This is the price of faith: Believers renounce their authority to eliminate the sincerity of the faith of others. If one person in the whole world is allowed to take a belief on faith, then everyone is allowed to believe whatever they like, on faith. When we read the Holy Book, we have only our own human faculties to interpret it.

So don't tell me that because Muslims believe in God, this somehow translates into a blessing from God on your version of Islam and not someone else's. You may fool many people with that kind of spurious logic, but you won't fool me.

Seriously, you may think that war is a giant part of Islam, but it is not. I don't see war in the things that make you a Muslim. I however see giving to the poor a necessity. How 'bout the fact that patience and cleansliness are some of the giant parts in being a Muslim?

Islam is the bloodiest religion in modern times. Believe it or don't, but the truth is still the same. Islam in this century is like Christianity of centuries past: The scourge of all that is decent, and the enabler of all that is profane. Islam is insanity. When one person believes in illusions, we call this person disturbed. But when one billion believe in the same illusions, we call it a religion. I can tolerate benign religions; we all have some eccentricities, after all. But militant religions I will not suffer. Islam, in its current form, is even worse an evil than the Christianity that threatens my own country with tyrannical theocratic rule. Islam has positioned itself--through the voices of its followers--as the enemy of the entire West, and is so violent that it even turns on itself from day to day. Fanatical Muslims want blood, and yet they are still Muslims. This is not the Earth of your childhood or of your daydreams. It is time for you to grow up and understand that religion is a dangerous thing, whether or not the religion itself is "good" or "bad." Dangerous.

Deny this at the peril of us all.

This is definetely not a racial conflict (I hate when people call this a war -.- ) and quite possibly not a religious one. This is Land, plain and simple. It is not because it is holy. It is the land. Land. The most precious, most fought over, most loved possession.

The Palestinian people are as new to the region as the Israelis. This is not about land. Ireland and Irish terrorism against Britain--that was about land. (But, of course, there was also a Christian sectarian conflict to puff everything up to even more insane proportions. See a trend?) As I said before, Israel is an unremarkable piece of land, and the Palestinian people who claim it were not even a people until the mid-twentieth century. Only religion can explain the motive for, and continuation of, this pointless war. Israel is the capital of the four-way religious war between Islam and Judaism, Islam and Christianity, Islam and the West, and Christianity and Judaism.

Josh will almost definetely take this the wrong way, but hey, I've grown to love him, and put up with his oh so cute antics.

It is a slow day at work, and I am glad to have something to write about. It is always a pleasure to bring reality and enlightenment to the great Burning Zeppelin.

And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. [2:191]

I think you should sit down and actually read that book of yours sometime. Fortunately for you, there are those who have already done so, and can guide your reading with helpful commentary as to the grounds on which militants might base their militancy, or justify the strife between Islam and other religions, or between the sects of Islam. Here is a sample:

2: The Cow

# Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6

# Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10

# A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

# Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90

# Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61

# For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104

# For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114

# Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126

# The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162

# They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167

# Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174

# How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175

# Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

# War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

# Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217

# Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

3: The Family of 'Imran

# Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4

# Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10

# Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12

# Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21

# Theirs will be a painful doom. 3:77

# All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 3:85

# Disbelievers will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:87-88

# Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 3:91

# Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 3:105-6

# Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 3:116

# The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131

# We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151

# Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176

# Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177

# Disbelievers will have a shamful doom. 3:178

# Disbelievers will go to Hell. 3:196

4: The Women

# Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 4:14

# For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom. :18

# For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 4:37

# Hell is sufficient for their burning. 4:55

# Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56

# Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74

# Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76

# Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89

# If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91

# Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 4:115

# Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137

# For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138

# Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 4:140

# The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 4:145

# You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151

# For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1

# God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169

5: The Table Spread

# Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5

# Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10

# Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33

# Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 5:36

# Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 5:37

# Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38

# Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 5:41

# Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45

# Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72

# Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73

# Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86

6: The Cattle

# Many generations have been destroyed by Allah. 6:6

# Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 6:49

# Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70

# When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93

# Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 6:113

# Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 6:125

# Allah will send everyone the Fire, except those he chooses to deliver. 6:128

# Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah's will. 6:137

7: The Heights

# How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 7:4-5

# Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 7:36

# Entire nations have entered the Fire. Some get a double torment. 7:38

# Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 7:40-41

# Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: "Pour water on us." But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 7:50

8: Spoils of War

# Allah will throw fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, and smite their necks and fingers. 8:12

# Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 8:14

# When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 8:15-16

# Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17

# Those who disbelieve will be gathered into hell. 8:36

# The angels smite the face and backs of disbelievers, saying: "Taste the punishment of burning!" 8:50

# The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. 8:55

# Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60

9: Repentance

# Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 9:3

# Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 9:5

# Don't let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 9:17

# Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis. 9:34

# Those who are tormented in the Fire will have their foreheads and backs branded. 9:35

# If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39

# Disbelievers go to hell. 9:49

# Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 9:60

# Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 9:63

# Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 9:68

# Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73

# Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 9:74

# Those who refuse to give their wealth and lives to Allah will face the fire of hell. 9:81-83

# For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 9:90

# The unbelieving Arabs will be punished by Allah with an evil fortune. 9:97-98, 101

# Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111

# Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 9:113

# Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123

10: Jonah

# Disbelievers will have a boiling drink and a painful doom. 10:4

# Those who neglect Allah's revelations will make their home in the Fire. 10:7-8

# Allah has destroyed entire generations. 10:13

# On the last day Allah will kill all the disbelievers (and then he will torture them forever in hell). 10:45

# Those who disbelieved will face a dreadful doom. 10:70

# Allah drowned those who disbelieved his revelations. 10:73

# Moses asked Allah to harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they would not believe until they saw the painful doom. 10:88

11: Hud

# Those in the Fire will suffer as long as the heavens and earth endure. 11:106-7

# Allah will fill hell with humans and jinn. 11:119

13: The Thunder

# Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire 13:5

# Those who do not answer Allah's call will go to hell. 13:18

# Disbelievers will be tormented in this life, and suffer even more pain in the Hereafter. 13:33-34

# The reward for disbelievers is the Fire. 13:35

14: Abraham

# Woe unto the disbelievers. Theirs will be an awful doom. 14:2

# Those who are in hell will be forced to drink festering water which they can hardly swallow. They will want to die, but they will not be able to. Theirs is a harsh doom. 14:16-17

# Those in hell will be chained together. Their clothing will be made of pitch and fire will cover their faces. 14:49-50

16: The Bee

# Disbelievers are evil and will dwell in hell forever. 16:27-29

# Allah will add doom to doom for those who disbelieve. 16:88

# Those who oppose Islam will face an awful doom. 16:94

17: The Children of Israel

# Allah made hell to be a dungeon for disbelievers. 17:8

# Allah has prepared a painful doom for those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 17:10

# Allah destroyed entire towns. 17:16

# How many generations Allah has destroyed since Noah! 17:17

# Allah intends to burn people in hell. 17:18

# Allah will destroy every town before the Day of Resurrection. 17:58

# Allah will send disbelievers astray. Then he'll burn them in hell, increasing the flames from time to time. 17:97-98

18: The Cave

# Allah has prepared a Fire for the disbelievers. When they want a shower, Allah will give them a shower of molten lead to burn their faces. 18:29

# Those who are condemned to the Fire know they will have no way to escape. 18:53

# There is an appointed time in which the doomed will find no escape. 18:58

# Allah has destroyed many towns. 18:59

# On a certain day, Allah will present hell, in plain view, to the disbelievers. 18:100

# Allah will welcome the disbelievers into hell. 18:102

# The good works of disbelievers are all in vain. They will go to hell anyway. 18:104-105

# Hell is the reward for disbelievers because they made a jest of Allah's revelations and messengers. 18:106

19: Mary

# Allah will pluck out from every sect those who should burn in hell. 19:69-70

# Allah will record what disbelievers say and then prolong their torment. 19:77-79

# Allah has sent the devils on the disbelievers to confuse them. 19:83

# Allah has destroyed many generations. 19:98

20: Ta Ha

# Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 20:6

# The people cried out for mercy, but Allah killed them anyway. 20:15

21: The Prophets

# Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 21:6

# Disbelievers will not be able to put out the fire on their faces and backs. They will be stupefied and no one will help them. 21:39-40

# Every person alive at the time of the flood was evil. So Allah drowned them all. 21:77

# The disbelievers will stare in terror at what Allah has in store for them. 21:97-99

22: The Pilgrimage

# When the doom of Allah comes, pregnant women will suffer miscarriages, and men will act like they are drunk. 22:1-2

# The devil will guide some to the punishment of the Flame. 22:3-4

# Those who turn from the way of Allah will face ignominy in this world and burning in the next. 22:9

# Whoever thinks that Allah will not give Muhammad victory should go hang himself. 22:15

# Disbelievers will wear garments of fire, boiling fluid will be poured on their heads, their bellies and skin will be melted, they will be tormented with iron hooks, and when they try to escape they will be driven back with the taunt: Taste the doom of burning. 22:19-22

# Allah will provide the disbelievers with a painful doom. 22:25

# How many towns Allah has destroyed! 22:45

# Those who disregard Allah's revelations are the owners of the Fire. 22:51

# Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will have a shameful doom. 22:57

# Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will burn in the Fire. 22:72

23: The Believers

# Allah told Noah not to bother pleading for the people he was about to drown. 23:27

# Those who don't believe in the Hereafter will receive extreme punishment from Allah. 23:74-77

# When fire burns their faces, they will be glum. 23:104

24: Light

# Scourge adulterers and adulteresses with 100 stripes. Do not show them any pity. Have a party of believers watch the punishment. 24:2

# Disbelievers will never escape the Fire that will be their home. 24:57

25: Criterion

# Those who deny the coming of the Hour will be chained together and burned with fire. They will pray for their own destruction. 25:11-13

# Allah will force the evil-doers to taste great torment. 25:19

# It will be a hard day for disbelievers and wrong-doers. They will gnaw on their hands and wish they had chosen Islam. 25:26-27

# Those who deny Muhammad's revelations will be destroyed. 25:36

# Allah drowned everyone in the flood of Noah, and has prepared a painful doom for evil-doers. 25:37

26: The Poets

# Allah destroyed the people in Lot's town with a dreadful rain. 26:172-3

# Many will not believe until they see the painful doom. 26:201

# Those who believe in another god are doomed. 26:213

27: The Ant

# Allah leads those who do not believe in the Hereafter astray by making things work out OK in this life, so that he can torment them forever in the next. They will get the worst punishment and will be the greatest losers. 27:4-5

# "Allah destroyed them and their people, every one." 27:51

# Allah sent a dreadful rain on "those who stayed behind." 27:58

# Whoever does something wrong will be thrown into the Fire. 27:90

28: The Story

# Allah has completely destroyed many communities. 28:58

# Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying: Where are My partners whom ye imagined? 28:62-64

# Allah caused the earth to swallow Korah. 28:79-81

29: The Spider

# Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah have no hope of mercy. For such there is a painful doom. 29:23

# The doom of hell will come upon disbelievers suddenly, when they least expect it. 29:53-55

# The worst thing you can do is tell a lie about Allah. Hell is the home of disbelievers. 29:68

30: The Romans

# Allah seals the heart of disbelievers. (And then he burns them in the Fire.) 30:59

31: Luqman

# Those who mislead others from Allah's way and mock Islam will have a painful doom. 31:6-7

# Allah will give disbelievers a little comfort for a little while, and then he'll torment them forever with a heavy doom. 31:23-24

32: The Prostration

# Allah will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together. 32:13

# Allah: Taste the doom of immortality because of what ye used to do. 32:14

# Those who used to deny the Fire will be tormented in it forever. 32:20

# The worst thing you can do is to deny the revelations of Allah. 32:22

33: The Clans

# Allah cast panic into the hearts of the disbelievers. He killed some, and enslaved others. 33:25-26

# Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 33:60-61

# Allah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming fire, wherein they will abide forever. 33:64-65

# The disbelievers will be burned in the Fire with a double torment. 33:66-68

34: Saba

# Those who challenge the revelations of Muhammad will have a painful doom. 34:5

# Those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will be tormented. 34:8

# But some of the jinn Allah burned with flaming Fire. 34:12

# Those who strive against Allah's revelations will be brought to the doom. 34:38

# Those who worshipped the jinn will taste the doom of the Fire. 34:41

# Those who are cast into hell be terrified when they see that they have no escape. Then they will believe. But it will be too late. 34:51-52

35: The Angels

# Those who disbelieve will have an awful doom. 35:7

# Disbelievers will burn forever in the fire of hell. Allah will keep them alive so that he can torture them forever. When they repent and ask for mercy, he will ignore them. 35:36-7
36: Ya Sin

# Allah has blinded the disbelievers so that they cannot see the truth. So it don't bother warning them. They will go to hell anyway. 36:8-10

# Allah has destroyed many entire generations. 36:31

# If Allah feels like it, he will drown everyone. 36:43

# Allah will burn the disbelievers in hell. 36:63-4

37: Those Who Set the Ranks

# Those who "did wrong" will go to hell, and their wives will go to hell with them (no matter how they behaved). 37:22-23

# Those who refuse to believe in Muhammad's revelations will face a painful doom. 37:31-38

# Those in hell must eat from a tree with the heads of devils, and then drink boiling water. After that they return to hell. 37:62-68

# Allah drowned everyone except Noah and his family in the flood. 37:82

# Allah tells Abraham in a dream to sacrifice his son. (But is the son Ishmael or Isaac?) 37:102

# Allah killed everyone in Sodom except for Lot and his family. 37:136

# No one is against Allah, except those who burn in hell. 37:162-3

38: Sad

# Allah has destroyed many generations. 38:3

# Those who doubt will soon taste Allah's doom. 38:8

# Those who deny the messengers deserve doom. 38:14

# Those who wander from the way of Allah will have an awful doom. 38:26

# Those who disbelieve will burn in the Fire. 38:27

# David slashed their legs and necks (with Allah's approval). 38:33

# The transgressors will roast in the Fire and be forced to drink boiling liquids followed by ice cold drinks. 38:55-9

# Iblis asks Allah to let him hang around and mislead humans. Allah allows him to do so, and Iblis leads all humans to hell except for the single-minded slaves. Allah agrees, and plans to fill hell with Iblis and his followers. 38:79-85

39: The Troops

# Tell the disbelievers to enjoy themselves now, because later they will be owners of the Fire. 39:8

# The losers will be those who lose themselves and their families on the Day of Resurrection. They will be surrounded by fire. 39:15-16

# No one will be able to help those that Allah torments in the Fire. 39:19

# The worst thing you can do is tell a lie against Allah. The home of disbelievers is hell. 39:32

# Those who lie about Allah will be sent to hell and will have their faces blackened. 39:60

# Those who disbelieve will be driven into hell. 39:71-72

40: The Believer

# Allah sent an awful punishment at the time of Noah. 40:5

# Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 40:6

# When the doom comes, the hearts of the doomed will choke in their throats, and no one will help them. 40:18

# Those who ignore Allah's "clear proofs" will be seized and punished severely. 40:22

# The prodigals will be owners of the Fire. 40:43

# The doomed will be exposed to the Fire morning and evening. 40:46

# Those in hell will beg to be relieved from the Fire's torment for just a day. But the prayer of a disbeliever is in vain. 40:49-50

# Those who bicker about Allah's revelations are filled with pride. 40:56

# Those who scorn Allah will go to hell. 40:60

# Those who deny the revelations of Allah are perverted. 40:63

# Those who deny the Scripture and Allah's messengers will be dragged through boiling water and thrust into the Fire. 40:70-72

# Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my parnters that you used to believe in? 40:73

# Thus does Allah send astray the disbelievers (in his guidance). 40:74

# Those who scorn will go to hell. 40:76

# When they see Allah's doom they will believe in Allah. But their faith will not save them. The disbelievers will be ruined. 40:84-85

41: Fusilat

# Allah will make life miserable for those who deny his revelations and then he will torment them forever in the Hereafter. And they will not be helped. 41:15-16

# The enemies of Allah will be gathered into the Fire where their skin, ears, and eyes will testify against them. 41:19-20

# Allah will make those who disbelieve taste an awful doom. Their immortal home will be the Fire, since they denied Allah's revelations. 41:27-28

# Those who disbelieve will taste hard punishment. 41:50

42: Counsel

# While some lounge in the Garden, others will roast in the Flame. 42:7

# Those who argue about Allah will have his wrath upon them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 42:16

# For wrong-doers there is a painful doom. 42:21

# Allah sometimes kills people for misbehaving. 42:34

# Allah sends some people astray and then punishes them for it by burning them in the Fire. 42:44-46

43: Ornaments of Gold

# When the Egyptians angered Allah, he drowned them all. 43:55

# Those who argue and do wrong will have a painful doom that will come upon them suddenly. 43:65-66

# The guilty are tormented forever in hell. Allah will not relax their punishment. 43:74-75

# "But they will come to know."
Allah will torment disbelievers forever in hell. 43:88-89

44: Smoke

# Those in torment will claim to believe and ask Allah for relief. But he will refuse since they will return to their disbelief. 44:11-16

# Those in hell must eat from a tree like molten brass that burns their bellies. Then boiling water will be poured on their heads. 44:43-48

45: Crouching

# Those who hear and reject Allah's revelations are sinful liars. Give them tidings of a painful doom. 45:7-8

# Those who joke about Allah's revelations will go to hell. Theirs will be an awful doom. 45:9-10

# Those who disbelieve in Allah's revelations will have a painful doom of wrath. 45:11

46: The Wind-Curved Sandals

# Disbelievers will be rewarded with the ignominious doom of the Fire. 46:20

# The guilty will face a wind with a painful torment. 46:25

# Allah has destroyed entire towns. 46:27

# Allah will taunt the disbelievers that he torments in the fire, saying: "Taste the doom for that ye disbelieved." 46:34

47: Muhammad

# Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded. 47:4

# Allah will damn the disbelievers and make all their actions fruitless. 47:8-9

# Disbelievers may eat and be happy now, but the Fire will be their final home. 47:12

# Those in the Garden will drink delicious wine, while those in the Fire will drink boiling water that will tear apart their intestines. 47:15

# Allah curses people by making them deaf and blind. 47:23

# Angels will gather them together and smite their faces and backs. 47:27

48: Victory

# Those who think an evil thought concerning Allah will be cursed and sent to hell by him. 48:6

# Allah has prepared a flame for the disbelievers. 48:13

# If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom. 48:16-17

# But if you're willing to fight for Allah, he will provide you with lots of booty. 48:19-20

# Allah punished those who disbelieved with a painful punishment. 48:25

# Those with Muhammad are ruthless toward disbelievers and merciful toward themselves. 48:29

50: Oaf

# Allah has destroyed many entire generations. 50:36

51: The Winnowing Winds

# Accursed are the conjecturers who ask: When is the Day of Judgment? It is the day they will be tormented by the Fire. 51:10-14

52: The Mount

# Those who deny the existence of hell will be thrust into its Fire. 52:11-16

54: The Moon

# Allah sent a storm of stones on Lot's folk, killing all but Lot's family. 54:34

# The suffering in hell will be more wretched and bitter than anything experienced on earth. 54:46-48

# Allah destroyed many people, but does anyone remember anymore? 54:51

55: The Beneficent

# The guilty deny hell. But after they die they go circling between it and fierce, boiling water. 55:43-44

56: The Event

# But those on his left hand will face scorching wind, scalding water, and black smoke. 57:56:42-43

# Those who deny Allah and the Hereafter will eat from the Zaqqum tree and drink boiling water. 57:56:51-54

# Allah will welcome the rejecters and erring with boiling water and a roasting in the hell fire. 57:56:92-94

57: Iron

# The home of disbelievers is the Fire, a hapless journey's end. 57:15

# Those who disbelieve and deny Allah's revelations are the owners of the fire. 57:19

58: She That Disputeth

# For disbelievers is a painful doom. 58:4

# Don't make friends with Allah's enemies. For those who do so, Allah has prepared a dreadful doom. 58:14-15

# Those who turn others away from the way of Allah will have a shameful doom. They are rightful owners of the Fire. 58:16-17

59: Exile

# Allah cast fear into the hearts of the disbelieving People of the Scripture. Their home in the Hereafter will be the Fire. 59:2-3

# The disbelievers fear the believers more than Allah. 59:13

# The devil and disbelievers will be in the Fire. 59:16-17

61: The Ranks

# Allah loves those who fight for him. 61:4

64: Mutual Disillusion

# Those who disbelieve will have a painful doom. 64:5

# Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 64:10

66: Banning

# The fuel of the Fire is men and stones. 66:6

# Be stern with disbelievers. They are going to Hell anyway. 66:9

67: The Sovereignty

# Allah has prepared for the devils a doom of flame. 67:5

# Disbelievers will go to hell where they will hear its roaring and boiling. 67:6-7

# Who will protect the disbelievers from a painful doom? (Nobody) 67:28

68: The Pen

# Those who consider the Quran to be "mere fables" will be branded on the nose.68:15-16

69: The Reality

# Those who do not believe in Allah will be chained up and cast into hell-fire where they will eat filth. 69:30-35

70: The Ascending Stairways

# Doom is about to fall on all disbelievers. Only worshippers (Muslims) and those who preserve their chastity (except with their wives and slave girls) will be spared from "the fires of hell" that are "eagar to roast." 70:1-30

# Disbelievers will enter hell with frantic with fear, knowing they will be tortured forever by Allah. 70:36, 44

71: Noah

# Those that Allah drowned in Noah's flood were then tortured forever in the Fire. 71:25

# Noah asked Allah to drown all the disbelievers. 71:26

72: The Jinn

# The fires of hell will be fueled with the bodies of idolators and unbelievers. They will experience an ever-greater torment. 72:15-17

# Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will dwell forever in the fire of hell. 72:23

73: The Enshrouded One

# The fires of hell will be fueled with the bodies of idolators and unbelievers. They will experience an ever-greater torment. 72:15-17

# Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will dwell forever in the fire of hell. 72:23

74: The Cloaked One

# The last day will be a day of anguish for disbelievers. 74:9-10

# Those who are stubborn to Allah's revelations will face a fearful doom. 74:16-17

# The fire of hell shrivels humans and spares nothing. 74:27-29

# Allah has appointed angels to tend the Fire and has prepared stumbling blocks for those who disbelieve. He sends some people (whoever he wants) astray. 74:31

75: The Rising of the Dead

# Those who pay attention to this life and ignore the Hereafter will suffer forever in hell. 75:20-29

76: "Time" or "Man"

# Allah has prepared chains, manacles, and a raging fire for the disbelievers. 76:4

# Allah has prepared a painful doom for evil-doers. 76:31

77: The Emissaries

# Allah destroyed "the former folk." 77:16

# Woe unto the repudiators on that day! 77:19, 77:24, 77:28, 77:34, 77:40, 77:45, 77:49

79: "Those Who Drag Forth"

# Those who rebel by choosing this life over the next will go to hell. 79:37-39

82: The Cleaving

# The wicked will burn in hell forever. 82:14-16

83: The Defrauding

# Those who reject  Allah's revelations will burn in hell. 83:10-17

# The disbelievers used to laugh at the believers. But the final laugh will be on them. 83:29-36

84: The Sundering

# Some folks will be thrown into a scorching fire. 84:11-12

# Disbelievers will be given a painful doom. 84:22-24

85: The Mansions of the Stars

# Those who persecute Muslims, without repenting, will burn in hell. 85:10

87: The Most High

# Those who are flung into the great Fire will neither live nor die. 87:12-13

88: The Overwhelming

# On that day many will be sad and weary. Scorched by the fire, drinking boiling water, with only bitter thorn-fruit to eat. 88:2-7

# Allah will punish disbelievers with the direst punishment. 88:23-24

89: The Dawn

# Allah poured the disaster of His punishment upon those who rebelled against him. 89:11-13

90: The City

# Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will have the Fire placed over them like an awning. 90:19-20

91: The Sign

# "Allah doomed them for their sin" and burned their houses. 91:14

92: The Night

# Those who deny Allah's revelations must endure the flaming fire. 92:14-16

96: The Clot

# Allah will grab those who deny His guidance by the forelock and call the guards of hell. 96:13-18

98: The Clear Proof

# Those who disbelieve will abide in the fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. 98:6

101: The Calamity

# What is the Calamity? It is a day when dead people's bodies will be scattered like moths, consumed in a raging fire. 101:1-11

102: Rivalry in Worldly Increase

# Allah will show humans hellfire and then he will ask them about pleasure. 102:5-7

104: The Traducer

# Some rich folks will be flung into the Consuming One, the fire of Allah. 104:4-6

111: Palm Fibre

# Abu Lahab will die and be plunged in flaming Fire. His wife will have on her neck a halter of palm fiber. 111:1-5

[Legend of the Past]

I looked up Uganda on Wikipedia, and I'm genuinely curious how that would have turned out.

Fascinating little fact, no? Britain offered it as a replacement for Israel when Hertzel struggled to get Turky to give us a charter over Israel. That was before WWI, between the 1880's and the first decade of the 20th century.

Explain. I'll counter you afterwards Razz and say how during his time, the Jewish tribes broke the promises too.

Listen, you learned your stuff from Muslims. If that's a lie, it woulden't be the first on the planet that did. Like the Christians saying we were plotting to take over the world.

Now for the explanation. Muhammad broke his promise to El-Medina, that he will have a truce with them for ten years in reward for safe passage. Arafat broke EVERY promise for peace he's EVER made to Israel. There isn't a SINGLE promise he's kept. A Muslim leader looks up to Muhammad, Muhammad breaks promises, so does the leader.

Besides, what promise did WE break?

[Daniel Krispin]

Okay, I'm out of this one. Obviously I had no clue what I was talking about when I said that religion wasn't a major factor in this. Yesterday was not one of my better thinking days.

[Leebot]

None of you would believe me, but no Muslims want war. Period. Except in the "Final Days" context...

Oh, I believe you. I have some familiarity with Islam, and I know that it on the whole advocates peace and tolerance. Judging Islam by those terrorists is like judging Christianity by the Ku Klux Klan.

Why should the observances of these religious people over here somehow overrule the observances of those religious people over there? On whose mortal authority are the peaceniks of Islam judged to be “truer” Muslims than those who believe in bringing war to their enemies? Join me below as I reply to Daniel Krispin’s post…

Well, you kinda missed my meaning there, but perhaps I should have been more specific.

First of all, I did make a mistake in my response. I responded as if it were an "on average" statement rather than the blanket "No Muslims want war." My point is that I don't judge the people who belong to a religion just because others who share the same allegiance commit heinous acts.

Men have two levers: fear and self-interest.

Your list of quotes from the Quran (I believe it was) brought this to my mind. This quote does a very good job of explaining why most religions work in convincing people: They pull both levers at the same time. They threaten you with eternal torment if you disbelieve, and offer you eternal rewards if you believe.