Author Topic: Plot Adaptation Conflicts  (Read 1686 times)

ZeaLitY

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Plot Adaptation Conflicts
« on: April 14, 2006, 04:25:06 pm »
I'm hesitant to do this, but the plot needs to be revised for numerous reasons at this point. I believe there are now enough coders and mappers on the team to allow Crimson Echoes to come to fruition. The plot needs to be redone before this can happen. Recent developments and technical limitations are the factors behind this action.

1. Human Glenn and Schala aren't going to be playable characters; let's stop deceiving ourselves. This means Ayla and Frog are on board, though NPC Glenn can still feature in scenes (like a werewolf that changes on command).
2. A lot of the ending cannot be done on a Super Nintendo, or would be impossibly difficult to implement, requiring many graphics hacks.
3. I dreamt up a lot of the plot in the space of two nights after Temporal Flux came out, as I was excited about it though having no idea of the ROM's mechanics or the program's limitations.
4. As a result of that, the plot doesn't seem very Chrono. We want to take Trigger's action and joy and combine it with Cross's maturity and Kato's Chrono art and beauty, not drift back into Trigger action.

How should we do it? We do not have to scrap old work.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2006, 01:47:21 am by ZeaLitY »

DivineDragoonKain

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Plot Revision
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2006, 04:36:51 pm »
Yeah, looking at what's planned... It might be better to start fresh, or at least rewind a little. I'm sure lots of the current plots, areas and resources in works could still be used, but now that we understand better how the CT ROM works, we can get a better idea of what's actually possible.

I'd like to see the story work with the old Chrono conventions, as you said, and I think working out the bugs of the plot is just what the doctor ordered.

ZeaLitY

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Plot Revision
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2006, 12:44:19 am »
Let's get the damn ball rolling. We should have selected a theme firstly; we can do that now. I propose the themes are:

1. Time can be changed, most importantly in the present
2. Reconciling differences for peace (Reptites v. Humans v. Mystics)
3. Time should only be manipulated by those with extreme morality and responsibility (basically a sort of potshot at Belthasar as he is in Cross)

Feel free to discuss and evaluate. From there, we need to build a master outline.

Chrono'99

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Plot Revision
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2006, 07:04:45 am »
Are we 100% sure that Glenn or Schala can't be inserted? Ayla's running sprite isn't that small, thanks to her tail which increases the sprite's length. Glenn could be running like Magus, as someone proposed on the other topic.


Anyway... I actually just read the plot outline recently, so everything is still fresh in my head, but I have some stuff to expose.

People might not agree with this idea, but I think that (for example) simply replacing the Malakh-ar with Nus would give the game a more Chronoan feel, if you see what I mean and what it would suddenly change.

I believe there are also some problems with the current plot though that are not technical but just story-related. They might not all be "plot-holes" though, maybe just things that I misunderstood:


- What did Magus do for the 2 whole years in the Ice Age? Everybody knows that Schala was last seen in the Ocean Palace, so the ruins of the Black Omen should have been the very first place he searched at.

- I'm still not sure about Magus patronizing Dalton about his crimes... The Mystic War must have caused more deaths than Dalton's slavery of the Earthbound, especially since the Magus ALSO had slaves in his castle, and not just slaves, but undead slaves who implored the party to "kill" them to ease their pain.

- The time paradox with the Chrono Break:
Quote
According to the Frozen Flame, the Chrono Break banishes an entity from all timelines and permanently casts him into the Darkness Beyond Time. However, if Crono, Marle, and Lucca were banished from history, the Frozen Flame never would have escaped the Ocean Palace and resurrected King Zeal, which would mean that Sorin would never get altered or get the Chrono Break and thus he would not have been able to banish them.

...but isn't the purpose of the DBT precisely to make time loop impossible? The CB's logic seems different than what we see in the series, and the item seems basically impossible to use: you can't kill anybody with it, because if you did you would have created a timeline in which that person never existed... so you never had to kill him/her, but you did kill him/her... so you couldn't use the CB to begin with.

Also, is the reason for the party's decrease in power explained somewhere? I might have missed that part, but I think it's not explained.


Other stuff:

- Is Lavos really a unique person? CT and CC implies that the Lavos we see is just a grown Lavos Spawn, which gives birth to other Lavos Spawns which will parasitate other planets. CT:CE though reveals that Lavos is a unique person, and that all Lavos Spawns are his creations. Then did Lavos drift in space for all the time between his corruption as a Malakh-ar and 65,000,000 BC?

- Finally, I'm not sure about Lavos needing a "bioweapon" to do his dirty work. He certainly didn't need any to harvest DNA in CT. The original series implied that the Planet vs. Lavos struggle was more about survival of the fittest than good spirit vs. evil lord. So Lavos had that kind of parasitical nature, everything he did he could do it by himself, he never needed weapons. Even his only external tool, the Frozen Flame, is just in fact another part of himself, not a telephone that he left when he crashed on the planet.

Moreover, Calasperan and the dream of King Zeal is quite reminiscent of FFX's Zanarkand and the dream of the Fayth... so unfortunately, that somehow makes Geddon a bit too similar to FFX-2's Vegnagun (omg kigzeal = shuyin!!!111). I don't know, maybe this FFX feeling is what gives the current plot a slightly different tone than what we feel as "Chrono".

Daniel Krispin

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Plot Revision
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2006, 12:22:37 am »
Well, personally, I think that the people of Lavos should remain in. It lends the grandeur that will tie in between the simpler Trigger and more complex Cross. Secondly, I was also very much in favour of the idea of Calasparan, so I'd like that to remain, if possible. Furthermore, what I liked far best from the entire plot was the Founding of Guardia segment, with Cedric the Executer fighting Antaeus. That absolutely must be present.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Plot Adaptation Conflicts
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2006, 05:31:35 pm »
- What did Magus do for the 2 whole years in the Ice Age? Everybody knows that Schala was last seen in the Ocean Palace, so the ruins of the Black Omen should have been the very first place he searched at.

I've got an idea for this. What if Magus somehow was able to leave 12000 B.C., and only returned 2 years later -- though only something like a few months passed for him? What he did those few months could be a big mystery whose repercussions and consequences later give the party a hard time, and he has to reluctantly reveal what happened.

We can even do a Back to the Future II type situation, where Magus could have initially gone to 602 A.D., and the party meets that version of him there later in the game. However, it might be tough to explain Time Bastard and stuff to people...

- I'm still not sure about Magus patronizing Dalton about his crimes... The Mystic War must have caused more deaths than Dalton's slavery of the Earthbound, especially since the Magus ALSO had slaves in his castle, and not just slaves, but undead slaves who implored the party to "kill" them to ease their pain.

This can be fixed; just dialogue.

- The time paradox with the Chrono Break:

I wanted the Chrono Break to be some kind of time-based assassination device -- a one-way Gate to the Darkness Beyond Time. I think we can do this and have it backfire and get used on Schala, since that would neatly send her to the DBT for Chrono Cross. Of course, the confrontation in which this occurs has to take place at the Ocean Palace for continuity's sake.

- Cedric the Executor vs. Antaeus

We might even make a 1 A.D. overworld at this point, and this part was a triumph for names and history. There's no question it will be in the game.

- Calasperan

We might be able to do this, though on not such a grand level. We'll have to see.