The Doom Sickle's Power

[V_Translanka]

Now now...I'm not expecting a vast assortment of theories on this or anything...I don't even know if there really is a lot to discuss on this...But...

After a brief, and I'm talkin' pretty fuggin' BRIEF here, visit to an old haunt of mine, the Square Insider (is it just me, or should they limit animated sigs just a TAD?) Chrono Series Forum, someone named TranceKuja brought up how he felt this weapon gave Magus extra power.

He said that it was his feelings for his fallen comrads that gives Magus that extra boost. I always thought it was more along the lines of a Magus-Works-Better-Alone (or at least likes to work alone) type of thing...What do you think?

[Empiric]

I always saw it as a Weapon-will-steal-your-soul kinda thing.

[Daniel Krispin]

I would mostly agree with Empiric, I think. Of course it really doesn't harm his comrades, but from it draws its strength from their fall. Sort of fueled by the black wind that Magus always feels, or something similar; a weapon that is with connected to dark fate and death.

[ZeaLitY]

It is true that Magus feels the Black Wind when death is or is about to occur. He feels it as a child in Enhasa, and prior to the battle with Frog. Additionally, he may have detected it just before vanquishing Ozzie in the Ozzie's Fort Sidequest. 'Spiritual power' is alluded to throughout Chrono Trigger, namely in the functioning of the Masamune and the Mammon Machine, and perhaps it is this that empowers the DoomSickle.

[V_Translanka]

Ah yes, that all makes sence...To add to the Black Wind exposition...Direa says to Serge, "Hmm? There is an odd wind that is whirling about. I have heard that such wind-bearers appear at times, but..." I've always thought this refered to the Black Wind, and it fits w/Serge as he is dead in Direa's timeline. Neat-O!

[XchrononetX]

Well, not to sound like I make easy generalizations about these things, but I thought that either it was the "Magus works best alone, or prefers to show his true power to nobody" type of thing, or a simple "Damn, there's nothing to do but to go all out because I'm the only one left" act of desperation type of thing. I don't think it utilizes souls or has any amount of spiritual energy at all, much to the fact that it is the exact opposite of the Masamune, or any product of the red rock for that matter, because it doesn't cultivate dreams or a holy force, but constructs Doom when met with Doom.

[Akuma]

Tons of weapons have certain abilities you don't see a topic for like Rainbow's critical hit rate or something. It's just an extra effect nothing more.

[chronotriggerfreak]

Well, not to sound like I make easy generalizations about these things, but I thought that either it was the "Magus works best alone, or prefers to show his true power to nobody" type of thing, or a simple "Damn, there's nothing to do but to go all out because I'm the only one left" act of desperation type of thing. I don't think it utilizes souls or has any amount of spiritual energy at all, much to the fact that it is the exact opposite of the Masamune, or any product of the red rock for that matter, because it doesn't cultivate dreams or a holy force, but constructs Doom when met with Doom.

Opposite of the Masamune? What did you base that on? I've never heard anything of the sort. If anything, the Masamune is the opposite of itself, depending on which dimension and time period you're in. I've really never thought of any other weapon but the Red Knife having any sort of connection to the Masamune. Anyway, even if it really were the opposite of the Masamune, that would mean it feeds on darker spiritual energy--evil energy, malicious thoughts, nightmares--for such a power, not that it has no power whatsoever.

Besides, if your theory were to hold any merit, Magus would have to get this bonus from all his weapons. If the Doom Sickle is as powerless as you say, then what makes Magus get the "last-ditch effort" bonus with it alone?

TranceKuja's theory is a little far-fetched. When has Magus ever shown any sort of feeling for his acquaintances? For that is all they are--co-workers, part of a grander corporation, but never close partners, and much less friends. Magus will work with them to get what he wants. It always puts me off when people assume that deep down, under the harsh, stereotypical interior, Magus has genuine care and compassion for people. In reality, the only person he could ever feel for is Schala. Everyone else is either a pawn or dead to him, unless you count Lavos as a person, in which case Lavos is also the only "person" he could ever have anything similar to contempt or, on the extreme, hatred for. Really, he's not an emotional person, no matter how may cell layes, bones, and internal organs you shove out of the way to look for proof.

V_Translanka's theory I would approve of, if it didn't have the vital flaw that if it were true, Magus would get the same bonus no matter what weapon he chose. If it could be modified in some way that his lonesome preference somehow fueled the weapon (which really wouldn't be a difficult change), I'd find it acceptable. Otherwise, I can only identify with Empiric's theory, using Guardian_of_Ages' post as a vital corollary.

[XchrononetX]

I thought I had explained that this was just a generalization, not fact. It's just the way I feel, but if you so wish to debate, sounds like fun!
Firstly, the Masamune isn't the opposite of itself, the only reason it EVER went evil was because Masa and Mune's souls had fallen asleep, and when they awoke, they knew what the sword could do. You see, the sword, like all weapons apparantly, have their own will, and this one just happened to be mischievious. The Masamune is surely not the opposite of itself.
The main reason I thought that it was an opposite of the Masamune in general, is because it implies Doom, whereas the Masamune implies justice and a clean soul. Holy vs. Evil type of thing, if you will... I HATE making such a simple generalization about these mirror weapons, but that's the quickest way to say it. In practice, the Masamune is spiritual, and the Doombo (hahaha, don't shoot me) here happens to be evil in practice.
Also, my act of desperation theory, leaves me to think that it only works with this weapon because Magus only POSSESSES this power with this weapon. After all, after the end of your "companions" lives, Magus suddenly increases strength by leaps and bounds. I hardly feel that this is the action of the weapon itself, but rather the weapon responding to Magus' anger and desperation. I also think that Magus realizes that he can tap into this power, but as he pretty much ALWAYS keeps his cool, he usually doesn't.
Well, that's just the way I've always thought of it, and there you have it. Oh, and as to the extent of his love for his companions, I never said he loved them, although I always thought that he had some unspoken respect that he had for them. This can be sited in Radical Dreamers where Magil *cough*Magus*cough* states that he knew the owner of the "evil sword Masamune" and when prompted by kid whether they were friends, he says nothing, but when asked if they were enemies, he hesitates and says "...No". Thank you and goodnight .

[Radical_Dreamer]

Opposite of the Masamune? What did you base that on? I've never heard anything of the sort. If anything, the Masamune is the opposite of itself, depending on which dimension and time period you're in. I've really never thought of any other weapon but the Red Knife having any sort of connection to the Masamune.

Yes, you have heard something of the sort. It was called the "Einlanzer" and it was the opposite of the Masamune.

[XchrononetX]

The Einlanzer was the opposite of the Masamune in which Masa and Mune lie dormant, this is no longer a truth...

[ZeaLitY]

Firstly, the Masamune isn't the opposite of itself.

He was just making a point. The Einlanzer is only the opposite of the Masamune in that it was forged by the Dragonians. Humans/Dragonians/whatever, the swords aren't that "opposite." Both are holy.

[Daniel Krispin]

You know, this is probably going a little far (and isn't about the Doom Sickle)...but maybe the Einlanzer is a twin to the Masamune in the same way that Terra Tower and Chronopolis are twin. What I have always thought on that matter is what follows. Terra Tower is the future of a Reptite dominated timeline. Now, the Dreamstone exists in both (because it existed before any such split, I would think). In the human timeline it is used to forge both the Mammon Machine and the Masamune. What of the Reptite timeline? I don't think it unlikely that the same could have been done by the Reptites, though after their subsequent loss of the war they would have lost it to humanity. Thus we have a sword that is effectively a brother to the Masamune, and so has the power to circumvent its evil at Death's Door. I think it's a logical assumption.
Anyway, in regards to the Sickle, I still maintain what I did before. Let's see, the dictionary give the definition of "doom" as being: 1) fate (that's an old sense of the word, I think) 2)a terrible fate; ruin; death 3.)judgement 4.)the end of the world
Well, I think we can discount "4"...that would be more in the line of Lavos. "1" doesn't mean much in this regard. But 2 and 3... well, 3 could mean that it pronounces judgement on the enemy for their defeat of the others, but I personally don't think that works. That leaves 2, which is easily most plausable. Ruin, death...fits nicely with Janus. And bolsters the arguments that have been brought up regarding Janus' perception of the Black Wind. It is said in old Greek myth, and thence into our own myth, that the grim reaper Thanatos comes to bear people away to Hades; perhaps such a summons is what the sickle feels. Actually, there being a feeling of death, a premonition and such, is not an uncommon thing in legend and such. Most likely it is such a feeling or aura that is what empowers the sickle.

[chronotriggerfreak]

Yes, you have heard something of the sort. It was called the "Einlanzer" and it was the opposite of the Masamune.

Seeing as how I've never actually played all the way through Chrono Cross and most of my information was gathered here, I'm not surprised that I've never actually heard that much about the Einlanzer or its connection to the Masamune--it was never a topic I felt interested in discussing.

Firstly, the Masamune isn't the opposite of itself, the only reason it EVER went evil was because Masa and Mune's souls had fallen asleep, and when they awoke, they knew what the sword could do. You see, the sword, like all weapons apparantly, have their own will, and this one just happened to be mischievious. The Masamune is surely not the opposite of itself.

I never said it was the opposite of itself. I was just saying that, if anything, one incarnation of the Masamune was the opposite of the previous incarnation, and that since that's obviously not true, neither is the assumption that the Doom Sickle is naturally evil and therefore the Masamune's adversary. This might be speculated on more appropriately if, say, Magus wielded the Doom Sickle in fighting Frog, but since you don't find the Doom Sickle until later, that's not a possibility.

Oh, and as to the extent of his love for his companions, I never said he loved them, although I always thought that he had some unspoken respect that he had for them. This can be sited in Radical Dreamers where Magil *cough*Magus*cough* states that he knew the owner of the "evil sword Masamune" and when prompted by kid whether they were friends, he says nothing, but when asked if they were enemies, he hesitates and says "...No". Thank you and goodnight .

I never said you said he loved them; I was referring to the user mentioned in V_Translanka's first post, which suggested that he did. That is blatantly false. Like I mentioned when refuting TranceKuja's theory, though, Magus is incapable of holding hatred for anyone/thing but Lavos and he cannot love anyone but Schala. That would be why he said "No." Respect is not an emotion, verily, so that may indeed be true. However, they are not likely to be his friends, as I mentioned. And quite honestly, Magus has never really shown his emotions, good or bad, for anyone--they are only so obviously hinted at in Schala's case that we naturally and assuredly come to assume he still loves her. Anything else we cannot know for sure.

[XchrononetX]

Anger and frustration are both emotions, and they are well expemplified by Magus Zeal. He also expressed fear, another emotion, for Schala, and even as a child expressed fear for himself when thrown into the time warp. Magus shows emotions quite readily enough, he just doesn't know it yet . Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Magus' role as the anti-hero, but you have to admit that he has shown emotions from time to time.
Also, I was just trying to prove that he didn't hate any of his former enemies like Frog or Crono and co. I was simply trying to disprove this, because I'm tired of people saying that there was indeed hatred, even though I didn't really think that was the point that you were trying to drive anyway. I just hear something similar, get on my soapbox, all because it reminds me of other things I've heard, horrible little habit of mine.
BTW, I would like to complement on this debate, as I don't really get to have any intelligent conversation in school (sad, no?). Kudos, I love debate .