Record of fate

[Diru]

I played and finished this game 5 years ago and it just hit me...how is it that FATE is still influencing people in home world through the records of fate if FATE was unable to intervene with home world?

However...
   Ever since the formation of
   the Dead Sea 10 years ago...
   FATE has been unable to intervene
   directly with World 01(home world).
   The best FATE could do was cross
   the dimension and receive data
   through the Records of Fate.
   And with much difficulty, FATE
   succeeded in binding Miguel
   to the Dead Sea as a watchman...

A fisher man in home world says that the record of fate told him not to go fishing today so this shows that fate is still influencing people in home world and to my assumption is still trying to keep people away from the main continent one way or another and if thats the cause why would FATE let Fargo become a pirate in another world? He could easily access the main continent in his ship and he could just as easily cause a major change in the history that fate knows.

I was always under the impression(despite the obvious) that home world, despite being the false reality, was the "true" reality since the people of home world were not bond by FATE's predetermined history(ironic for people who blieve in fate) they were free to make their own decisions like the girl in arni who decided to become a traveling poet but in another world was told to give up that dream due to FATEs intervention(samething with the guy who took up fishing instead of worshipping a straw doll...). Thats just my view anyway, so if anyone can interject and help clear this up

[grey_the_angel]

plot device.

[ChibiBob]

plot device.

-snort.- Well, that's an intelligent, well-thought-out reply.

I always thought the Records of Fate in Home World were merely a remnant of FATE's influence through the dimension of his downfall. Another World's FATE, as stated in the game, CAN use the Records of Fate of both worlds to keep an eye on the progression of events, but its influence on Home World is marginal — at best, it can only issue advice and hope the natives obey, while in Another World its power of persuasion is absolute. This would explain why the Home World people's lives are still relatively influenced by the Record of Fate, but can nevertheless live of their own free will — it's like both peoples think of the Records as gods of sorts, as seers into the future, but Another contains FATE's actual existence, while Home's FATE is pretty much dead in the water, only able to alter the Dead Sea and nothing else outside its boundaries.

And, about the whole "true reality-false reality" thing — Another World is viewed as the true reality of the Chronoverse because of one single event: Serge's death. It was "predetermined," if you will; who could have possibly guessed that Schala's daughter-clone would enter the picture and muck everything up? Since Serge was supposed to have died, and Another World follows through with said future, then Another World would have to be the true reality. Home World was only created because of Schala's interference in the past. Home World might have been the better future, since people did exert as much free will as circumstances would allow; however, Another World is the future that has already been slated to occur, and Home World is its bastardization, a dimensional split that caused a large enough rift in time and space to allow for Lavos to still spread destruction in 1999AD.

I hoped that helped better than "plot device."

[grey_the_angel]

except that the records weren't installed till AFTER the time crash, to precent everything from mucking over even worse. That also doesn't explain how fate still managed to influence people in the people in homeworld arni. when fate himself stated he couldn't do more that record data. Or why it would record serge's unwritten destiny and not simply send his ass off to die somewhere, if he did infact, have control of people.

I said plot device cause of it's extreme convience. Sometimes, there's no real arguments to be said.

[AuraTwilight]

Well yea, but El Nido was born during the Time Crash, so that's kind've a given. And like ChibiBob said, FATE has power in both worlds, just one over the other, in that in Another he can actually control individuals, and in Home world he can just tell them to do something and hope they listen, and they usually do due to conditioning. And FATE wouldn't leave "Serge's ass to die somewhere." It needs that ass to get to the Frozen Flame

[grey_the_angel]

Well yea, but El Nido was born during the Time Crash, so that's kind've a given. And like ChibiBob said, FATE has power in both worlds, just one over the other, in that in Another he can actually control individuals, and in Home world he can just tell them to do something and hope they listen, and they usually do due to conditioning. And FATE wouldn't leave "Serge's ass to die somewhere." It needs that ass to get to the Frozen Flame

not really, fate was trying to kill serge from the get-go, and all he needed was his form to get to the frozen flame itself.

I think fate was like "well, I need him to put things back, but I also need him dead, so either way's good."

[Chrono'99]

except that the records weren't installed till AFTER the time crash, to precent everything from mucking over even worse. That also doesn't explain how fate still managed to influence people in the people in homeworld arni. when fate himself stated he couldn't do more that record data. Or why it would record serge's unwritten destiny and not simply send his ass off to die somewhere, if he did infact, have control of people.

I said plot device cause of it's extreme convience. Sometimes, there's no real arguments to be said.

Serge is the Arbiter of Time. He's basically the only person that FATE can't manipulate with Records.

[Zaperking]

Serge is the Arbiter of Time. He's basically the only person that FATE can't manipulate with Records.

Where did that come from?
 He's the chosen one by Belthasar and Schala. Sending Electrical signals into someones brain to stimulate action has nothing to do with Arbital Status. Heck, Serge can't even use or has not even demonstrated any of the powers that Dark Serge was able to unleash. Also, what is see from the whole situation is that The Flame evolved Serge, or gave him some kind of unnatural leap in his genes, thats why Dark Serge has it too. It's in his genes, like how everyone has the genetic code for the larger brain that the humans developed upon contact with the flame in 3,000,000BC or such.

[Diru]

Not really answering my quesiton you know -___-

well anyway

I always thought the Records of Fate in Home World were merely a remnant of FATE's influence through the dimension of his downfall. Another World's FATE, as stated in the game, CAN use the Records of Fate of both worlds to keep an eye on the progression of events, but its influence on Home World is marginal — at best, it can only issue advice and hope the natives obey, while in Another World its power of persuasion is absolute. This would explain why the Home World people's lives are still relatively influenced by the Record of Fate, but can nevertheless live of their own free will — it's like both peoples think of the Records as gods of sorts, as seers into the future, but Another contains FATE's actual existence, while Home's FATE is pretty much dead in the water, only able to alter the Dead Sea and nothing else outside its boundaries.[/quote]

Wouldn't that completely contridict my qoute from the game and didn't you sort of contridict your self as well ?

It says that FATE was unable to intervene directly with home world that the best FATE could do was cross dimensions and receive data through the Records of Fate, they never said that remnants of FATE still linger in home worlds record of fate. Also if FATE was having difficulties just trying to bind Miguel to the Dead Sea as its guardian how do you except it to to offer any sort of advice and hope people follow it?

[AuraTwilight]

Exactly, it can't intervene DIRECTLY, so it needs to proxy through the Records of Fate.

[Diru]

yes...that^ would explain this little detail,
"the best FATE could do was cross dimensions and RECIEVE DATA through the Records of Fate"

but not my initial question,
how can FATE from another world still use the records of fate in home world?


this is turning into a fallacy -___-

[AuraTwilight]

FATE can look into other dimensions. Surely she can send simple commands and hope they're received.

[ChibiBob]

Yep. Besides, we have proof that FATE can at least look into the other dimensions from the Radical Dreamers ~ Le Tresor Interdit ~ reference in Chronopolis — how on Earth could she know it even existed without having some kind of foothold in that dimension? Thus, the Records of FATE.

how can FATE from another world still use the records of fate in home world?

She doesn't use them in the sense that the Another World Records operate.

Think about it as, say, the FBI headquarters.
(All hypothetical, of course, it's just the best example to use.)

The FBI mainframe (in this example, FATE herself) is networked to all the other computers in the FBI headquarters and can recieve and transmit information directly from their hard drives, as well as alter anything necessary. It can override password protection and reprogram all the computers it's networked to, it's just that powerful — like FATE can influence the El Nido population to such a point that she can alter their behavior and actions. This is Another World.

The FBI mainframe can also access all other computers in the nation through the internet; however, although it can read through all the files and leave you a nice little C&D-the-cheapo-porn-downloading E-mail in your inbox, it can't actually alter any of the data stored within your hard drive — therefore, you can use your computer as you see fit, without worrying that the FBI's gonna screw around in any of your -cough- personal collection. This is Home World.

In Another World FATE can reprogram minds. In Home World FATE can just scold you for eating up her hard drive space with your naughties and tell you to knock it off, but you can do as you please and laugh at her ineffectiveness, 'cause you're just not on her network and she can't do a blasted thing about it.

[cupn00dles]

Yep. Besides, we have proof that FATE can at least look into the other dimensions from the Radical Dreamers ~ Le Tresor Interdit ~ reference in Chronopolis

Not to mention the fact that there are two screens in that (or in some other, can't remember for sure) room, one monitoring home and the other one another...

[uzerzero]

Working on completing Chrono Cross for the umpteenth time around 

I just reached Chronopolis and am almost to FATE. In the room on the 4th floor, the one that you can't access unless you talk to the chief down by the docks, they reveal what the Records of Fate were intended for. There are two screens behind it, which, ironically enough, show pictures from events that happened PRIOR to your arrival at Chronopolis. The camera on the left is zoomed in on the Viper Manor Ruins in Home World, where it just shows a broken gate. No Dario, no Porre guards, nothing. On the right, it'z zoomed in on the gates of Viper Manor, which I believe shows Solt and Peppor at the entrance. Although I can't be too sure of this.


<theory>
Chronopolis was originally a research facility that was started in the El Nido archipelago, before there was any land (besides Gaea's Navel) or anything. Presumably so that they could continue their research there without anyone in the world knowing about it. In my theory, up until the Time Crash, there was nothing in El Nido. At the time of the Time Crash, FATE decided that in order to prevent any further screw-ups in the future, she would create the El Nido Archipelago and populate it. The reason you can't see this in Chrono Trigger is because in that timeline, the Archipelago had not been created yet. So in 7600 BC, El Nido was populated. FATE also instigated all of the Records of Fate in an attempt to control her paradise. In the Home World, when Serge was attacked by the panther-demon, Schala/Kid heard his screams and saved him. At this point, the dimensions split, which was FATE's reaction to what had just happened. In one dimension, everything went as planned, following Serge's death. In the other dimension, Serge lives and FATE tries to manipulate him into coming back so that she can use him. So therefore, since Another World is "her dimension" she has complete control over it and all of its actions. But since the Home World is not directly her dimension, merely an offspring, she does not have complete control over it, only a way of glimpsing at it and trying her hardest to plant ideas in people's heads. But she really had no choice. If she hadn't split the dimensions, she would have been destroyed. Survival of the fittest.
</theory>

More or less, the Home World Records of Fate function perfectly in the eyes of the people, but in the eyes of FATE, they are broken. It would be like a security camera with a built in speaker. If the speaker is broken, all you can do is see what happens, you can't actually instruct anyone.

Anyways, that's my theory. I'm sure there's holes in it, but keep in mind, it is just a theory.