Richard Dawkins- The Root of All Evil

[Radical_Dreamer]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8239331458224461127&q=root+of+all+evil

Part two of the show.

[Ramsus]

Seven pages of discussion over religion?

Most people can't think logically. Not very well anyway. It goes against the way in which our brains are programmed, which is why it's so easy for most people to fall victim to subtle fallacies. Most people don't have enough curiosity to care, and so there's no reason for them to put forth the effort to actually think. I mean, where are the material benefits?

That's why faith is so attractive, and why religion will always exist in one form or another. Killing God will only make gods of men, and I'd hate to be one of the many who wouldn't be gods in such a world.

Even if we teach science and reason, it won't make much of a difference. I've met plenty of people who find religion in some corner of science. These are people who call themselves open-minded atheists, yet all they've done is shifted their faith from Pastors to Professors -- from the Bible to some textbook they sort of read once.

Real thinkers are few and far between.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Ramsus should officially be delcared awesomest. thinker. ever. That was really deep, and quite true. Most people who don't belong to an organised religion might belong to their own religion, or faith. But I guess most of this discussion has been about organised religions (and possible atrocities), rather than religion itself.

[Hadriel]

Killing God will only make gods of men, and I'd hate to be one of the many who wouldn't be gods in such a world.

Even if we teach science and reason, it won't make much of a difference. I've met plenty of people who find religion in some corner of science. These are people who call themselves open-minded atheists, yet all they've done is shifted their faith from Pastors to Professors -- from the Bible to some textbook they sort of read once.

Real thinkers are few and far between.

What's wrong with making gods of men, and why wouldn't you be one?  You're highly intelligent and perfectly capable of contributing to such a society.  I believe all men should live like gods.  Why else would I propose the unlimited sale of hot sex robots as a serious solution to our economic and cultural problems?

[Ramsus]

Once God is destroyed, organized religion will become centered around people, real people, and only they shall be as gods.

[Hadriel]

I doubt that; in the absence of a god, people will worship themselves first and foremost.  The selfish nature of human beings can go a long way towards obscuring logic and good sense.

[Ramsus]

I doubt that; in the absence of a god, people will worship themselves first and foremost.  The selfish nature of human beings can go a long way towards obscuring logic and good sense.

Obscuring logic and good sense? Those are ideals that some people strive to, not something inherent within people themselves.

Take away God, and what changes? Merely the focus of people's faith. Everything else stays the same. People still work, raise families, and try to have some fun every now and then. Only now, instead of blindly believing in X, they'll blindly believe Y instead.

The true hedonists are easy to find in the lowest elements of society (although they exist at all levels). These are people who avoid work, scam welfare and consider the high points of their time on this world to be doing drugs and having sex. They'll exist with or without religion, but simply taking away religion won't turn someone into such a person.

[ChronoMagus]

YAY Ramsus! He understands the fault of humans... that they are followers.  That no religion really changes squat. 
Humans will follow mortals instead of Gods and that is actually much worse.  Why you ask... because what happens when the mortal god dies?  Common ieople go in a crazy frenzy and care so much about one human's death over everything else important going on.  Don't believe me, look at what happened when Arafat died.  Palestine went crazy.  They lost so much hope and pride and became an even more desperate nation.  When humans worship other humans, many many things are bound to go wrong.  Admiration is very different than worship, and religion is not merely admiring a deity, it is worshipping one.  Humans are very likely to have faults, but if they are a god, then people will follow them.  If a mass murder is viewed as a human god in one religion, then the people will follow his example without questions.

[ZeaLitY]

I believe this is why Lord J (and myself, after comparing notes and confirming my suspicion that Bruce Lee believed the exact same thing) does not advocate the use of the word "Humanist." It is enough for man to be a freethinking, spirited, dreaming individual. Placing a label on it is like concentrating on a finger pointing to the moon. Don't stare at the finger, or you'll miss all that heavenly glory. Picard didn't prance around calling himself an archbishop of humanism; he merely lived. I suppose then the term "humanism" is merely a boat to get someone across to greater understanding, similar to the term "Jeet Kune Do." It is merely there to introduce the mind to something novel; once a person has matured, one discards the Jeet Kune Do label and begins truly living according to his or her own way.

As an aside, it's interesting that Bruce Lee's philosophy has virtually taken popular root once and for all in the form of "mixed martial arts", the official name for regular fighting in UFC. I say virtually because "Mixed Martial Arts" is still disconnected from the higher philosophies and lessons Bruce Lee was trying to get across. It's like "fighting" versus being an "artist of life." Well, whatever; Lee is still openly credited as the "father of mixed martial arts."

As a second aside, this does make me question the "bright" movement, of which Dawkins is a member. It's an effort to make the word "bright" a noun. Even with good intentions, it sounds like fancy elitism.

[Burning Zeppelin]

I'm not against God. I'm against the Misuse of God.

[ZeaLitY]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/03/haggard.allegations/index.html

Ted Haggard's in the news bigtime for buying the services of a male prostitute and methamphetamines. The gay male learned of Haggard's preaching against same-sex marriage and decided to blow the lid off everything.

If anything, this may have the effect of blowing Haggard's proposed ban out of the water in Colorado.

[Radical_Dreamer]

I rewatched that segment from Root of All Evil? again a couple minutes ago. I love it when Haggard cautions Dawkins against being arrogant. Tsk, tsk. I hope (no doubt vainly) that his flock will show a little more skepticism in where they turn for moral leadership now.

[Lord J Esq]

I was going to post this very news, but you've both already beaten me to it. I see the Compendium is in good hands.

[Corey Taylor]

I read this thread for 3 hours straight. There was no point in it. It didn't change anyone's personal beliefs. It didn't give anyone any kind of satisfaction to learn that Lord J gave a big F you to their religion. All this thread did, well the religious discussion, was make Lord J write too much and waste time. I highly doubt that someone took to heart that religion is for "mental patients". Yes, there were a few good points here and there. I was definately looking forward to greenganon's opinion to J's. The whole thread was about someone being religious and Lord J explaining every detail of his belief to prove, or try to prove, that there is no reason for religion.

Seven pages of discussion over religion?

But in my belief, religion is real. I believe in a God. I am in fact Baptist. I know he brought this up in this discussion, but I agree with Lord J that people take religion too far as to starting a religious war because you think your religion is the "right" religion and that everyone should follow.

Religion is not all that bad though. It gives better self control to those who believe that if you sin you go to hell. [quote author=Ramsus  I'm probably not thinking as logically as many of you were but. If you are Christian, there is no way to kill God.
As for atheists *cough* Lord J *cough*, what's the point. You will think you can do what you want because you don't have to worry about a dark afterlife or a fiery afterlife. I see no real reason as to why religion is a bad thing, J. I'm stupid and half of this probably didn't make sense but I wanted to get my shot at the Almighty Lord J.

[Lord J Esq]

I read this thread for 3 hours straight. There was no point in it. It didn't change anyone's personal beliefs.

Is that so? I think you would disagree:

I'm stupid and half of this probably didn't make sense but I wanted to get my shot at the Almighty Lord J.

You may not realize it, and you don't need to, but your very own quote is a testament to my effectiveness in this thread. I'm not out here to change minds; just to fight ignorance.

But in my belief, religion is real.

Nobody has said otherwise.

I believe in a God. I am in fact Baptist.

Nor are you an asset to the credibility of that dubious cause...

Religion is not all that bad though. It gives better self control to those who believe that if you sin you go to hell.

Religion also gives people an excuse to control others and corrupt society. It is a drug, a way of granting oneself unimpeachable yet unprovable moral authority--the very worst form of absolute power.

As for atheists *cough* Lord J *cough*, what's the point.

I am not an atheist. But the point of atheism is rather straightforward: "Don't delude yourself."

You will think you can do what you want because you don't have to worry about a dark afterlife or a fiery afterlife.

You would be a fool to paint me as a freewheeling rogue who has no sense of propriety, no ethics, or no conviction. How old are you, anyway, to put together such a ridiculous argument? Let me put it to you in terms you can understand: To quote an old saying, "I believe in life before death."

I see no real reason as to why religion is a bad thing, J.

You don't see much of anything on this subject. Come back when you're tall enough to peek over the grownup's table.