My perspective on a controversial topic...

[Rom Manic]

I've been thinking alot, lately...And I've had this discussion before, with a few other people.

We all know in one sense or the other what Aldolf Hither did in the Holocaust.  It is the biggest massacre since Stalin killed 11 million Ukrainians, and probably second to many other genocides in unrecorded history.

But what I have been thinking about is an underlying presence in the slaughter.  Any Christian will tell you that a sinner can beg for forgiveness and go to heaven, just as any who follow God's will go to heaven.

So my question to you is this:

Was it such a travesty that 8 million Jews are now in Heaven, after living generation after generation in ridicule, and especially after being rounded up and tortured and killed during WWII?

They say God will come for his people, the true believers.  I say he has already come for the Jews, and that they have all been saved.  And now it remains to be seen whether he will come for the Christians too.

Just my opinion on a possibility that may be true or may not be...And just to be clear, I think the Nazi's and anyone like them are despicable (*cough* China *cough*).

[Burning Zeppelin]

Well, you must look at it this way. There is no certainty that they will go to heaven, now is there? Christianity is not confirmed to be the right way, neither are any other religions, neither is religion period. So yeah. And yes, it was a travesty. They died. Period.

[Daniel Krispin]

It happens. It's one of those things in history. Concentration camps, for example, have been around since the Boer War when the British thought them up. Doesn't change the fact that it was a bad thing, but there have been bad things like that throughout history. The Assyrians kept peace in their empire by a policy of terror: flaying and beheading those who resisted. The Democracy of Athens actually voted to have the city of Milos I think it was utterly destroyed, its men killed and women and children sold into slavery. Just like our generation age does not have a monopoly on what is good, neither does it have the monopoly on what is evil. When one looks enough at history, one begins to see that nothing ever really changes in human nature. That is what history teaches. The holocaust is one in a long line of atrocities. It happened before, it happened then, and unfortunately, something like it WILL happen again.

My grandmother was in a concentration camp shortly after WWII, and she always says there were good soldiers and bad soldiers, and that terrible things happened, but such is life. I'd think it would be similar for the Jews. So to respond to what you said... they're very little good in it at all, save for the wise who will take it as a lesson. But there are few of those.

[Lord J Esq]

I guess my perspective on this is that I believe in life before death. Why do people believe so firmly in the goodness an afterlife that almost certainly doesn't exist, then turn around and ruthlessly reject the goodness of the only life we know does exist: this one?

[Legend of the Past]

If God WILL come for someone, you can be sure the majority of Christians aren't gonna be his target. They want to kill anyone who's different, except the good little Lutherans. (>_>)

But one must act to make sure he has a good life NOW instead of worrying about having a good life after his brain shuts down and his consiousness fades. Life's too short to wonder about 'what happans when'.

[CyberSarkany]

If God WILL come for someone, you can be sure the majority of Christians aren't gonna be his target. They want to kill anyone who's different, except the good little Lutherans. (>_>)

I know what you mean

There are always different kind of believers. Most people around me are Lutherans, yet the fewest know the Bible, know the difference between Calvinism(don't know if called that way in english...) and Lutherans, or even the difference between Evangelism and Katholics. They actually don't care about it. Being forced into this religion, like me, most of them don't like it. But I for example am actually quiet interested in religion, not to perform or believe in it, but to learn about humans from it
...most people here don't like that attitide...yeah...Lutherans...

[Rom Manic]

I think saying that the Afterlife doesn't exist has the same credibility as saying it does.  How would you know?  Is it more likely that there IS an afterlife, or that there is not?

Christianity is not confirmed to be the right way, neither are any other religions, neither is religion period.

Any religion is the right way for some people, but whatever you lay your faith in ultimately decides who you are and what you believe.  Atheist, Christian, Buddhist...Religion is a way of life, and there is never a right way because we are all different, we all have the ability to make our own decisions, and those are gifts we all share.

Like I said, the Kingdom of Heaven is reserved for those who truly believe.  The Jews, the Christians, and most other religions have their own vision of the great beyond, so wherever your faith lies is where you will be in the end.

Science doesn't prove anything about religion, either.  It would be like proving a needle is impossible to find in a haystack because it may be there, and it may be not.  You just have to start digging in to see for yourself

[Daniel Krispin]

I think saying that the Afterlife doesn't exist has the same credibility as saying it does.  How would you know?  Is it more likely that there IS an afterlife, or that there is not?

And thus not knowing what follows death, to fear it is to fear the unknown, and such fear being foolish makes the fear of death foolish. That is what Socrates said (or, maybe, Plato through Socrates.)

By the way, to CyberSnarky, it's true, not many know the Bible. And many more think they do, but don't. And it is called Calvinism in English. Not many people know this but, during the Reformation, the Lutherans were more opposed to the Calvinists than to the Catholics. Personally, I'm still quite religious. I was born into it, but never resented that. I suppose it's because my parents never made it seem like we were forced to go to church, and it became something of my own free will. Also, I was never taught the wishy-washy feeling-type religion that most kids get (you know, the 'Jesus is awesome' type stuff) - my father pulled me from Sunday School, actually. As a result, I have a more scholarly view on it all, my father being a theologian. But hey, kudos to you if you know the difference between those denominations - not many do, as you said.

[V_Translanka]

Boo frickity hoo, people died (no way!)...That was years ago. It's more than time to get over it. People die every day. And, anyways, it shouldn't matter how one dies. And, when you think about it, I'm sure there were a few chimo bastard jews in there that were killed as well so all was probably evened out in the end, eh? Eh?

w/e

[ChronoMagus]

It was a travesty.  If not how they died or how many died, the reason they died was.  No one should have to die simply because they were born Jewish or Muslim or Christian or whatever.  People should die for their actions.  We cannot judge who goes to heaven or hell (assuming they exist), who will be damned or blessed.  We are mortals.  We don't know everything, we never will know everything.  We cannot decide if a person was innocent unless we knew everything about that person.  But the reason the Jews (and homosexuals, gypsies, handicaps, etc.) died was the reason it is a travestry more than any other factor.

[Lord J Esq]

Boo frickity hoo, people died (no way!)...That was years ago. It's more than time to get over it. People die every day. And, anyways, it shouldn't matter how one dies. And, when you think about it, I'm sure there were a few chimo bastard jews in there that were killed as well so all was probably evened out in the end, eh? Eh?

w/e

Ah, the bliss of life immersed in the popular culture. I could almost envy you, were it not that I knew better. But your irreverent lifestyle depends upon the machinery of a society that must necessarily concern itself with such unpleasant things as major genocide. Your freedom not to care about such things is what your ancestors fought to achieve...but the victory seems a bit empty to me, honestly.

[V_Translanka]

Well, yeah, too bad that people died for their beliefs (silly thing beliefs)...but people probably shouldn't die for living where hurricanes come and go, but they do (/did)...No matter the reason, the fact that someone dies should outweigh the reason of the death. But who really cares in the end? When you think about it, it should only matter who dies and whether they were good or bad (whether they were advancing or hindering society)...I mean, to just say, aw, chimos shouldn't die because they believe in Christ or w/e even when they die w/people who aren't chimos is going out-of-bounds. Some people should die. Pretty much everyone deserves to die...

But now I'm just spouting...or am I?

[Rom Manic]

Jews are people.  During the Holocaust, they died for being JEWISH.  Do not take what I say in another context, anyone of you.  Read again what was said in both my posts and you will understand what this whole topic is about, which is NOT asking about people's fathers, or differences between faith's, or the ongoing defamation of Christianity, or hurricanes, OR the fact that I should get over their deaths.

I asked you a question to learn how you feel.  Very few of you have answered.

[V_Translanka]

I thought I answered by posing my own beliefs...or at least a brief smattering of words that formed something similar to beliefs...heh heh...brief beliefs...say THAT five times fast!

But alas, I lose my train of thought rather easily...

I think death is bad. Who likes death? Thanos is pretty much alone on that one...



I don't think that why someone dies is as important as who dies. People who suck should die before people who...hm, don't suck so much. So, yeah, I'm sure that at least half (give or take) of the Holocaust was some kind of travesty, but who's to say? They're all dead now anyways. Who's to say that one of the people that died wouldn't have become some monster ten times as horrific as Hitler himself? I'm just sayin...Death is what it is no matter why it occurs...But maybe I'm thinking on a simplistic level about the whole thing...