Why does the Red Stone interact with Lavos so well?

[XchrononetX]

Well, primitive man was attracted to shiney, glowing objects, so the "glow" theory sounds pretty good . Also, it's been made fact that primitive man didn't have a proper understanding of the power of the rock, and Zealian culture was the first to do so.
Yes, it does seem like the dreamstone acts like a "conductor" of sorts for multiple forms of energy, as when you fight the Mammon Machine it also utilizes the energy you use to attack it. So, it's not really a connection with Lavos, but a connection with energy in general. Lavos also possesses this ability, so I guess the fact of the matter is, Lavos and the dreamstone are forever connected by fate... Pretty cool stuff.

[koolkame]

XchrononetX:

So, it's not really a connection with Lavos, but a connection with energy in general.

I like that. Simple and to the point. Now to complicate things.

Has anyone noticed the red center of the teleporter in CC? I always thought that was Dreamstone. If Marle's pendant (a partially completed Time Egg) could warp a person through time using the teleporter, who's to say a device couldn't be built using the material it was made out of to warp between the two shattered dimensions? I'm probably way off base but i had to put it out there.

[Hadriel]

Conservation of Momentum makes it highly unlikely that Lavos smacked into a meteoroid and shot it to Earth, making Dreamstone out of it.  If the rock was small enough to have taken on enough of Lavos' momentum to arrive any substantial length of time before Lavos, it likely wouldn't have survived either Lavos hitting it or the descent through the atmosphere.  The likelihood of Lavos hitting the asteroid at the correct angle to create the trajectory required to bring it to our world is also rather slim in the vastness of interstellar space, unless he somehow saw fit to crash through an Empire Strikes Back-style asteroid field, which is more likely a destroyed planet, considering the distances between asteroids in the Sol system's belt.  Another planet could have existed here millions of years in the past, but once you get to that level of supposition it's time to call upon Occam's almighty razor.

It seems the most likely scenario that Dreamstone is the Earth's ultimate weapon against aggressors -- possibly a manifestation of the spirit of the planet.

[Leebot]

Conservation of Momentum makes it highly unlikely that Lavos smacked into a meteoroid and shot it to Earth, making Dreamstone out of it. If the rock was small enough to have taken on enough of Lavos' momentum to arrive any substantial length of time before Lavos, it likely wouldn't have survived either Lavos hitting it or the descent through the atmosphere. The likelihood of Lavos hitting the asteroid at the correct angle to create the trajectory required to bring it to our world is also rather slim in the vastness of interstellar space, unless he somehow saw fit to crash through an Empire Strikes Back-style asteroid field, which is more likely a destroyed planet, considering the distances between asteroids in the Sol system's belt. Another planet could have existed here millions of years in the past, but once you get to that level of supposition it's time to call upon Occam's almighty razor.

I just have to say it: Good physics; good logic. Bravo.

[V_Translanka]

I don't think the Red Rock applies to all energy. When you're fighting the Mammon Machine, it's still absorbing Lavos Energy, only indirectly (or even directly depending on how you look at the MM absorbing Lavos's Energy).

Also, about the meteor thing, I was just going to say it wouldn't work because then the rock would already be charged with Lavos Energy to begin with, which it is not.

[Hadriel]

I just have to say it: Good physics; good logic. Bravo.

I was going to refrain from acknowledging that at the risk of sounding conceited, but upon further thought I think it's all right.  Thank you.

However, the issue's still open, so don't stop throwing ideas out there.  As for me, I'm blank for now -- I need a muse.  

*returns to writing story*

[Empiric]

Meh, just an occasional visitor stopping back in to annoyingly reintroduce old theories that are pertinant to todays questions.

Empiric Wrote

The Dreamstone would have had to undergo a lot to become what Ayla held in her hand to give to Crono. Remember that in *our* timeline, we are just unsurfacing gems that used to be dinosaurs and other life; several ways for Ayla to have a well formed gem:

1.) The Dreamstone is of Volcanic origin and thus a newly formed gem (Unlikely since Zeal is capable of mining it to build the mammon machine and other things. However, after seeing the active magma in Prehistoric Age, its not a complete impossibility.) However, minerals created in this manner are not known for being very hardy when used as construction materials. They are not durable, and less likely to survive for long periods of time.

2.) The gem is a small 'meteorite' that fell from Lavos early; however, this is also hard to imagine, since there would have to have been One HECK of a meteor shower of Red stones that fell with Lavos. This could also be more plausible if it just broke off of Lavos as he burrowed under the earth, creating a seam of Red crystals that would lead too Lavos. However, The environmental conditions (The coldness the villagers complain of; reduced animal population) could be the result of a massive meteor shower that kicked dust into the atmosphere... Perhaps Azala's prediction was not only an omen of disaster and bloodshed, but a prediction regarding how Lavos would rule by salting the earth with his red stones?

3.) The gem could have been cooking in the earth for years, since the beginning of time. The only question would be how the humans got their hands on it in the first place; considering they did not seem to have any motivation for mining. Mining typically evolves after farming, when the need for construction materials and bargaining pieces appears. Ayla's tribe used natural items for bargaining chips, thus I dont think they would have mined for those kind of materials.
Thus, unless the Red Stone have found its way to the surface by itself through natural erosion and tectonic movement: like field stones; the Red Stone might have been a throwaway of the Reptites, who DID have a mineral dependent society.
Just think, the reptites might have evolved through the entities plans using the dreamstone. As a society grows it gets harder to control resources, and some of it falls into the palms of a less sophisticated race: the humans. These ape descendents evolve due to the leftover energy eminating from the dreamstone, and become a threat to the Reptites, who cant have anyone competing with them; Darwins survival of the fittest. The Reptites would have won however (Creating one of the CT timelines), if Lavos had not of come and created the Ice Age that killed off the Reptites. With the Entities influence dwindling slightly, Lavos used the dreamstones, something already tuned to biological energy, to jumpstart human evolution thricefold, getting them ready for the genetic devouring that is too come.
This could also be what seperates that world from all the others, that specific genetic 'edge' that focuses that Lavos to the planet. These crystals were not necessary, just something the entity and then Lavos used to steer the planet.

Could the entity have originally slowly controlled human/reptite evolution through the red stone until Lavos appeared, who overrode this biological/spiritual capacitor and put the humans on evolutionary overdrive?

and Empiric also wrote "Battery Theory"

Earlier on it was stated that the Masamune was effective against Magus because It absorbed/distorted the energy of Lavos that permeated Magus's being. I propose that purpose be taken a step further, in that Melchior created the Masamune to be a 'receptacle' of Lavos power. Fighting fire with fire. The Red Weapon was the untuned form of Masamune, and thus was attuned to Lavos's energy when it was plunged into the Mammon Machine, thus 'completing' it, with Masa and Mune as a sort of 'guardian' or keeper of the absorbed energies.

As the battles continued, the Masamune absorbed more and more of the latent energy of Lavos. How Masamune Two of CT fits in (As I see it) would be that Cyrus's spirit joined with the blade and 'increased' the energy of Lavos that could be harnassed.

Frog faces off against the true form of Lavos with the others, holding the Masamune in his hands. One slash, two slashes, each one would have absorbed more of Lavos's power, pure and untainted (relative).

After Lavos is dispatched, Masa and Mune sleep, knowing that the threat is 'over.' Cyrus goes on to his great reward, reincarnated, or completely nullified as time sees fit. In their ignorence (and the two have litterally proven they are airheads) they figure no more Lavos, no need for the sword; little do they know that in fact Lavos still exists, albeit in a somewhat different form. Lavos takes over the Masamune while the two sleep, creating the 'Demon Blade' of CC out of the pulsing-dangerous energy that the sword had accumulated over time.

This could also explain why Doreen was so angry with Masa and Mune, who had been sleeping on the job, letting Lavos use the accumulated energies of the sword as a form of avatar for himself.

This would explain the dual nature of the sword somewhat, for while it would 'reflect' the will of the weilder, it would also have the will of Lavos acting upon it. It would take someone of strong will to balance the ying/yang aspect of the powers. Masamune is the positive aspect of the power. Demon Blade is the negative aspect of the power.

With this theory the Hero's medal that Frog was so attached to would in fact be Psychosomatic as earlier stated, as it would focus the intention of the weilder of the blade. This would mean the Hero Medal would NOT have to be the same for both Frog and Pierre. One must have an ideal to focus on, a banner to hold high and say "this is what I strive for." It would be a power to enforce the mental-positive Masamune aspect.

For those of you asking why didn't the Masamune aspect turn everyone who weilded the blade into a raving peace zealot, remember the intention of good has never theoretically been to dominate evil, but instead to create the balance that is necessary for existence to flourish. The reason why the Demon Form DID make weilders become death zealots and jealous is because the intention of evil is indeed to overtake and sway the balance in its favor

[Hiroshino]

I always thought that the Dreamstone's rarity was due to Zeal Palace's over excessive use of the stone. Think about it; Zeal used the Dreamstone aka the Red Rock to create many things such as the Pendant, Amulet (Janus' Amulet is made of Dreamstone last I heard), the Epoch, the Mammon Machine, Masamune, Red Knife, etc. It was used to keep the Zeal Palace Continents floating. And before that it was used as currency. Both Melchior and Gaspar mention how Dreamstone was once used as currency when you are trying to reforge the Masamune. Just talk to Gaspar when you are trying to find the Dreamstone to repair the Masamune and he'll mention it. So will Melchior when you speak to him and show him the piece of the Masamune.

I also noticed something. Lavos absorbs the Planet's energy, Dreamstone absorbs Lavos' energy, Dreamstone is from the Planet...Lavos draws the Planet's energy, Dreamstone draws Lavos' energy, Dreamstone is from the Planet....notice a circle here?

Another thing to take into consideration. The Planet is the Entity right? Well, Dreamstone came from the Planet, which means it came from the Entity right? Well, the Entity is capable of dreaming, and the Red Rock, which is the Dreamstone, gave man (humanity) the ability to Love, Hate, and Dream. Notice how Love and Hate were born and the ability to Dream all came from that Red Rock (Dreamstone) that man (humanity) found that came from the Entity (the Planet) that is also able to dream and possibly Love and Hate? If that made any sense, which I hope it did, do you guys see any connections here?

[Zatopek]

I also noticed something. Lavos absorbs the Planet's energy, Dreamstone absorbs Lavos' energy, Dreamstone is from the Planet...Lavos draws the Planet's energy, Dreamstone draws Lavos' energy, Dreamstone is from the Planet....notice a circle here?

Another thing to take into consideration. The Planet is the Entity right? Well, Dreamstone came from the Planet, which means it came from the Entity right? Well, the Entity is capable of dreaming, and the Red Rock, which is the Dreamstone, gave man (humanity) the ability to Love, Hate, and Dream. Notice how Love and Hate were born and the ability to Dream all came from that Red Rock (Dreamstone) that man (humanity) found that came from the Entity (the Planet) that is also able to dream and possibly Love and Hate? If that made any sense, which I hope it did, do you guys see any connections here?

Very good theories, especially the Lavos draining planet's energy which drains Lavos' energy through Dreamstone circle theory.

[kazmaka]

firstly, the red knife IS the masamune. i would agree that the reason theres not much dreamstone left is because:

1) there wasnt much to begin with (could be wrong, merely a guess)
2) the zealian empire used an abundance of it, i would assume there whole city incorparated it, due to its ability to derive energy from sources (eg. lavos) it could of also absorbed the power of the sun stone, into a way the zealians could use it to keep their city in the sky.

i would say the rock existed in the planet since the begining of time, at a wild assumption i would say it contains "the soul" of the planet, not quite the soul but i cant think of a word to use instead.

[V_Translanka]

It could also be that there are more deposits of Dreamstone in the planet that simply have yet to be discovered...Maybe (farfetched, I know) their locations were hidden by Lavos somehow?

[Hiroshino]

i would agree that the reason theres not much dreamstone left is because:

1) there wasnt much to begin with (could be wrong, merely a guess)

Dreamstone once flourished before the fall of Zeal. Probably more so before Zeal became highly advanced, who knows. But there was a lot more to go around than there ever would be in the later eras such as the middle ages up to the distant future. Zeal, I would think, used up its available sources of Dreamstone or most of it at least. If Lavos hadn't done what it did in the dark ages, I think Zeal would have lasted for some time, but I can't say for sure.

2) the zealian empire used an abundance of it, i would assume there whole city incorparated it, due to its ability to derive energy from sources (eg. lavos) it could of also absorbed the power of the sun stone, into a way the zealians could use it to keep their city in the sky.

Yeah, many things were made from the Dreamstone. I would think that the Dreamstone is what helped the continents of Zeal float above the clouds like they did. Magic would be a good guess as to how that happened but the power of the Dreamstone and even the Sun Stone could have been used for this purpose. The people of Zeal did use up the Sun Stone because I think someone in Zeal mentions how it'd be aeons before they'd see that glow again, or something along that line. But, Melchior could have also used it to make elemental weapons as well. There was after all, the blue pyramid on the northern Zeal continent, also known as the Forbidden Palace. I think just about everyone was forbidden to access that place. Someone even mentioned there being a key, but you don't ever get it in the game, to my knowledge and memory.

You could even say that the people of Zeal once used the energy of the planet but once they discovered the energy and power of Lavos, someone in Zeal says something about how they don't need the energy of the tired old planet anymore.

i would say the rock existed in the planet since the begining of time, at a wild assumption i would say it contains "the soul" of the planet, not quite the soul but i cant think of a word to use instead."

Perhaps the Dreamstone contains the energy of the planet. It would appear that the stone originated from within the planet itself so maybe it harbors some of the planet's energy.

It could also be that there are more deposits of Dreamstone in the planet that simply have yet to be discovered...Maybe (farfetched, I know) their locations were hidden by Lavos somehow?

Yes, there very well could be. It could be possible that the people in the dark ages who mined for the Dreamstone didn't know all of the areas of where to find it. I figure that after the fall of Zeal, people never bothered to look for anymore Dreamstone. And even though many people sought out the Dreamstone in earlier times such as the dark ages, they most likely didn't know all of where to look or even after all of that time of mining for the Dreamstone and putting it to use and all that, there was still more to be found in the planet. But since nobody bothered to look more after the fall of Zeal, they never found it.

[teh Schala]

I have a small theory, but it is a bit far-fetched...

The Planet and the Dreamstone are creators of dreams, hope, life, etc. . As for Lavos, he could be a sort of destroyer of dreams (one of his attack is named "Dreamless"),

Actually, I've just found something that lends some hefty credence to that.  Lavos being the destroyer of dreams is a pretty easy connection to make -- I mean, he destroys everything! -- but the Dreamstone connection is a little harder to get evidence for.  However, take a look at one of Belthasar's books...  This is in his private room in Kajar...

It all began aeons ago, when man's ancestors picked up a shard of a strange red rock...  Its power, which was beyond human comprehension, cultivated dreams...  In turn, love and hate were born...  Only time will see how it all ends.

This almost exactly backs up the theories mentioned in this thread.  The rock cultivates dreams, giving birth to love and hate.  Thoughts?

[kazmaka]

It could also be that there are more deposits of Dreamstone in the planet that simply have yet to be discovered...Maybe (farfetched, I know) their locations were hidden by Lavos somehow?

actaully that would make a lot of sense for two reasons :

1) we knows dreamstone was in abundance when lavos crashed, we know he pushed the tyrano lair deep under the earth, so why not so dreamstone in the area as well?
2) the tyrano lair was built next to a giant pool of lava, maybe one of the places you would expect there to be a lot of dreamstone.

"Perhaps the Dreamstone contains the energy of the planet. It would appear that the stone originated from within the planet itself so maybe it harbors some of the planet's energy. "

thankyou, you expressed that much better than i did, if we assume the planet is the entity, which we do, it could be possible these stones contain the planets energy, and thusly contain the power to absorb energy from certain sources, well lavos, who infact got his energy from the planet, so its all the same energy.

You could even say that the people of Zeal once used the energy of the planet but once they discovered the energy and power of Lavos, someone in Zeal says something about how they don't need the energy of the tired old planet anymore.

lavos's energy is the planets energy, although the zealians wouldnt of known this, i thought what the person meant when he said that line was that they didnt need the resources of the planet anymore because lavos was so much more powerful, like having a planet run on bike dynamos and sudenly introduce nuclear power, they would ditch all the bike dymanos at a wink.

but you don't ever get it in the game, to my knowledge and memory.

either your knowledge or your memory, possibly both, are you decieving you, marle's pendant is the key to the pyramid, albeit only when it is charged from the mammon machine.

[z3r0h3r0]

What about this theory: When Lavos was approaching the Earth, either small fragments of him broke off and hit the Earth before him, or he knocked around a few meteoroids on the way, which got charged with some of his power, hit Earth first, and the rocks became known as Dreamstones.

sorry i know this is a page back, but this cant be right you get the hunk of dreamstone to fix the masamune from alaya before lavos even lands therefore dreamstone existed on the planet before lavos existed there