Stuff you hate

[tushantin]

Let's make that 200! The more hate we have the more we can work together to fix things with love.

Today's hate: I despise the fact that I get mentally exhausted when writing large ballads. *scratches his head* Sometimes limitless zeal isn't as limitless as we think.

And to note that I also need to write a serenade! 

[Syna]

People are so quick to assume that females are weak, and I rather suspect that it's because sexism is so ubiquitously entrenched that they think so, rather than that they're just lying fools who knowingly participate in a sexist culture and then spout lies to deny their crimes. (There are some of the latter, but I think the former are far more numerous.)

I agree, and my experiences with chivalrous attitudes has made me consider this issue closely a number of times. When a male performs a chivalrous act, and an act which is very explicitly performed because I am female and cannot be interpreted as mere generosity, I have often been at a loss for how to respond. Most of the time these males really do not mean it in any kind of patronizing way. I don't even think they consider females inferior, much of the time -- they are just mistaken about our capabilities, or want to show respect in a way they do not recognize as dysfunctional, or want to validate their identities as males to society at large.

To that end I tend to let go of actions like someone's opening the door for me or pulling out a chair. Such actions could be theoretically performed for anyone and any method I'd have of stopping these would likely be blanketly alienating. By way of rebelling against it, however, I often hold open the door for whoever is behind me and of course if their hands are not free or are otherwise incapacitated. When someone tries to pick something up for me, however, or help me with something, I tend to smile and say no thanks. (This has happened, hilariously, when I'm in the process of loading up a barbell -- it's like, yes dude, I can pick this up, in fact, I plan on lifting three or five times as much, thanks!) Of yet no one has reacted defensively (and a couple of times, they have been kind and apologetic about it), so I think this is probably effective. It neither implicates the male directly nor seems ungrateful for the part of his gesture which is simply motivated by kindness.

It's difficult, though. Though chivalry is a complex topic, I do think most of its manifestations are sexist, and resisting it seems to evoke the most defensive and stubborn anti-feminism..

[tushantin]

It neither implicates the male directly nor seems ungrateful for the part of his gesture which is simply motivated by kindness.

And indeed it is motivated by kindness. Now courtesy can begin anywhere in major social situations, and while there are portion (or majority, whatever you assume) with chivalrous intent, how would you know that every respectful behavior was out of what intent?

Just a simple thing to contemplate on: While a man opening the door for a woman may look chivalrous in nature, it may actually be out of kindness and emotional generosity towards a stranger. Perhaps he does that for both men and women? How would you recognize chivalry from a courteous one?

[tushantin]

Since we're on the topic, double post.

I despise the media and capitalism sometimes. Simply to promote a product and rake in profits they harvest on the intrigue and needs of common people and turn culture upside down.

An example would be ads encouraging little girls to dream "they can be Princesses". While I admit everyone dreams of grandeur from time to time, I personally don't like the terms of "Princess", especially when an individual can hardly be one (inventing broken dreams, aye), but also pushing sexism into the young, or rejecting the possibility that there can be so much more for an individual to become or how capable and independent a woman can truly be.

What's worse is that the girls buy into this sort of thing (as children do), and their parents support it. It enforces the idea of chivalry and "women are weak" factor, while males pride themselves as knights.

This reminds me of something Ashley told me once:
"While every girl in my dreamt of being princesses, I desired to be the President."

[Syna]

Just a simple thing to contemplate on: While a man opening the door for a woman may look chivalrous in nature, it may actually be out of kindness and emotional generosity towards a stranger. Perhaps he does that for both men and women? How would you recognize chivalry from a courteous one?

That's exactly my point -- I don't know, and I prefer to err on the side of charity and politeness. So in the case of things like door-opening I tend to be generous in my assumption that they are motivated by courtesy. In the case of males trying to lift things for me, that's more obviously something they do because I'm female; though even in that case, in the rare situation that I am genuinely struggling (usually because I'm not as tall as they are and the object is bulky) I will of course be grateful for their offer.

However, often chivalry is just the default, as in the case of the man who thought I couldn't load my barbell on my own, even though I was carrying the weight capably. In those cases I feel the best outcome is gently refusing to let them help, which will hopefully implicitly point to their benevolent sexism.

[ZeaLitY]

Yes, I fucking hate the shit out of men who talk about chivalry and how it's "so unfair to men, because we're expected to hold the door open to women," completely missing the point that this is patronizing them and done on the assumption that they're weak and need protection and special attention. Fuck those idiots.

And then a lot of their childish responses are "NOT HOLDING THE DOOR OPEN FOR THAT ***BITCH***" or "SLUT DIDNT HOLD THE DOOR OPEN FOR ME!" Nevermind that maybe she didn't open the door for you because most women know that giving attention to some men, even in a small nice gesture, is going to be interpreted as sexual interest! It's been psychologically fucking PROVEN and verified in studies that men interpret nice gestures as sexual interest much more than women. Assholes.

Their reaction is just like the one about the fucking draft. "Oh, it's so unfair that men get drafted and not women!" Yeah, nevermind that this is completely culturally a part of the trope that men are strong, brave, honorable defenders of the national hearth and women are homemakers who maintain the home front, and can't possibly be good soldiers or officers! But Johnny MRA in his fucking caveman stupor can't realize such an obvious fucking truth. "WOMEN SHOULD BE DRAFTED TOO!!" How about NO ONE SHOULD BE FUCKING DRAFTED? TWO WRONGS IN A PATRIARCHAL, MILITARIZED SHIT-WORLD DON'T MAKE A FUCKING RIGHT, YOU PIECE OF SHIT.

I swear to all fuck, it's inescapable. I can't watch a fucking TV show or movie, visit a website, go outside, anything, without coming into contact with patriarchy. I just want to fucking destroy it. Completely tear it apart in a primal rage. I know the enemy, and it's fucking patriarchy. Fuck it to all hell.

And if you ever, ever are around someone or know someone who makes a sandwich/kitchen joke, disown them. Fuck them back to the stone age. They can rub two sticks together to make fire, because that's the level of refinement their fucking minds are on. God, people are so fucking stupid it breaks my mind.

[tushantin]

Why do I imagine Z having a Vegeta's (Christopher Sabbat) voice?

I swear to all fuck, it's inescapable. I can't watch a fucking TV show or movie, visit a website, go outside, anything, without coming into contact with patriarchy.

And if you ever, ever are around someone or know someone who makes a sandwich/kitchen joke, disown them.

That just gave me an idea.

One of the primary forces that keep Patriarchy persistent in culture is media (and jokes). How about we have anti-Patriarchy movies, stories and jokes? Similar to that "Matrix Patriarchy" comic thingy? (That said, I'm actually working on one, but don't know how to place the ending punch)

After all, culture begins from the hearts of the people. Show them a better way, tell em a story, and viola!

[Katie Skyye]

And if you ever, ever are around someone or know someone who makes a sandwich/kitchen joke, disown them.

...but I actually find those kinds of jokes really funny most of the time. >3> I know my friends well enough to know that they're not being serious about it. And as for anyone else--I don't even pay attention to them, so I wouldn't know if they're making those sorts of jokes.

Don't worry, I understand what you're saying, and yes, they're inherently detrimental to the eradication of sexism, but...yeah. I definitely laugh at those jokes...though it's mainly because it's such overblown sexism that it's absurd. The fact that there are actually people who think that way in a non-joking manner is completely disgusting, though... :/ I see your point, but it prolly won't have any effect on my sense of humor.

[Truthordeal]

If Pope's Rape of the Lock sought to teach us anything, it's that good humor and good sense are essential. Overblown sexist behaviors can be as funny just as any other type of absurdist humor. But it's important to know when someone's trying to be absurd and when they actually believe it. I have a feeling that most of the "sammich" jokes on the Internet come from a source that does, in fact, have that misogynistic attitude. So it's not so much that they can't be funny, but most of the time those jokes come from that He-Man Woman Hater impulse we've developed.

[ZeaLitY]

Not here. First person to make a kitchen joke gets summarily fucking dealt with.

People don't realize that rape, FGM, and other ostensible displays of sexism are the tip of the iceberg, the symptom of the underlying problem: deeply misogynist culture. And the trappings of a deeply misogynist culture are "innocent kitchen jokes" and other pervasive sexist bullshit that undermine everything. It's the little stuff, like girls being made to receive pink toys and act a certain way from infancy, that flower into the fucked up world we have today. And how would you fucking feel if you were a victim of sexual abuse, domestic abuse, or even just a woman aware of the systematic oppression of females in this world and had to occupy a forum with people who made kitchen jokes? Hostile as fuck. Telling a woman to go back to the kitchen is like telling a black person to get back to the cotton fields. Now please tell me, when we obviously wouldn't tolerate the latter, how the first is fucking tolerated?

[rushingwind]

The very fact that we condone sexist jokes, such as the kitchen jokes spoken of here, are indicative of a huge problem. Instead of recognizing them as representative of an underlying problem that absolutely DOES exist, we satirize and laugh at the plight of the women. I used to laugh at those jokes a long time ago, too. However, knowing what I know now, I realize my behavior was rooted in sheer ignorance. I laughed about it because I thought, "Oh, of course, he doesn't really mean it." All the while, I completely missed the point: Our society is saying it's totally okay to make fun of women like that. This is not okay.

Zeality's comparison about joking to a black person to get back to the cotton fields is exactly equivalent. 50 or 60 years ago, it would have been "just a joke," and we'd have been telling people to lighten up (sound familiar?). I hope in about 50 years (hopefully much less), we'll understand that the kitchen jokes are exactly the same. And we'll stop.

[Lord J Esq]

It's true. Those kinds of jokes lose all their humor once you begin to truly understand the built-in malice behind them.

[Sajainta]

The very fact that we condone sexist jokes, such as the kitchen jokes spoken of here, are indicative of a huge problem. Instead of recognizing them as representative of an underlying problem that absolutely DOES exist, we satirize and laugh at the plight of the women. I used to laugh at those jokes a long time ago, too. However, knowing what I know now, I realize my behavior was rooted in sheer ignorance. I laughed about it because I thought, "Oh, of course, he doesn't really mean it." All the while, I completely missed the point: Our society is saying it's totally okay to make fun of women like that. This is not okay.

Quoted for emphasis.

Also, being a member of a marginalized group and finding a joke at the expense of said marginalized group humourous is irrelevant.  It's still offensive.  I know a bisexual person who thinks homophobic jokes are funny.  I know rape survivors who have no problem with rape jokes or shit like "lawlz I totally just raped my econ exam".  I don't care.  Those jokes are still offensive.  If you're a woman who finds "get back in the kitchen" comments to be hilarious, that is totally up to you.  It's still offensive.  It's still sexist.

[Lord J Esq]

Glenn Beck Wants Fat People to Die

This clip is somewhat old. I am so very pleased that he's off Fox News and out of the public limelight. What a piece of garbage.

Anyhow, usually when a headline suggests that somebody wants people to die, the story behind it is that they are advocating for a policy that will have the unacknowledged or outright-denied effect of causing people to die. Not this time. Beck actually said that fat people should die. Not the people who are merely Beck-fat, of course--which he noted. No, he meant the "really" fat ones, whose "skin grows into the couch."

I should not need to point it out, but, in case I do, bigotry against fat people does not magically become acceptable after some arbitrary threshold of fatness. If somebody weighs 1000 pounds, you're still as much of a bigot for mistreating them on the basis of being fat as you are if they weigh 200.

[tushantin]

The divergence of reaction towards Kitchen Jokes is actually pretty interesting, and it's not about tolerance either; rather based on faith towards a person's intentions. Strangely enough, the reactions diverge because of the joker's intentions in the first place, and we often end up forgiving the person because he actually didn't mean it. The problem is, he didn't mean it based on his innocent ignorance of the circumstances, or what the words may impose, and hence forgiven: he acts, not out of ill will, but out of conformity because "everybody's doing it, and it's funny".

While the most rational idea is simply to forgive and move on, or try to reach an understanding, the intolerant reaction itself may prove useful in discouraging gender-based mockery as whole to raise awareness that such acts may be harmful. I'm still pondering and observing on what kind of reaction may have what effects in this situation.

Glenn Beck Wants Fat People to Die

Ouch...

Glenn Beck, y u so mean?