Stuff you hate

[tushantin]

My brother says he wants to die.

He sees people with better qualifications, better money and better social life. He sees people having fun, and apparently that outer shell is all he cares about. He doesn't seem to see life beyond riches, booze and cigarette.

Why can't some people see that there's more to life than riches and material satisfaction? Why can't these people say that a better world is out there, filled with empathy, personal exploration and great deal of creativity? In a way they always think that being creative is either hard or risky, and thus not worth it. But they never try...

[Sajainta]

Why can't some people see that there's more to life than riches and material satisfaction? Why can't these people say that a better world is out there, filled with empathy, personal exploration and great deal of creativity? In a way they always think that being creative is either hard or risky, and thus not worth it. But they never try...

Because in many cases that is what they so conspicuously lack.  I had friends like your brother who felt the same way, but they were much poorer than he was (I assume your family isn't poor, since you are literate and you have access to a computer).  And to be honest, I could not blame them.  It is difficult to find comfort in creativity or internal exploration when you are hungry and not sheltered from the elements.  Material satisfaction would ease their hunger, give them shelter, and give them clean water.  Those of us who have access to those three things--and much, much more--are privileged enough to ask the questions you are asking.  They do not have that privilege.

It is, however, disheartening for those of us with privilege to see other people with privilege (like your brother) desire only money.  But I just wanted to point out to you that not everyone in your brother's position is in the wrong.  There is more to life than money, and I know that as well as you do, but we are very fortunate in that we don't have to worry about where our next meal is coming from, or where we are going to sleep tonight.  Most people are not that fortunate.  To many of them, there is nothing more important than survival, and surviving means having access to money.

[tushantin]

Thank you, Saj. Thank you very much for your insight. 

I didn't get the answer I was looking for, but for now, I have visions of better prospect. While I have known plenty of the those you speak of it is ironic that I never gave much thought about them. I may not be able to change my brother, but I can at least bring the elements of necessity, the Agents, to the less fortunate; for this, I vow to myself to develop a well-structured plan to achieving that plan. Everything has to start somewhere after all.

And yet uncertainty seeps through those facets of ideals. Countless people, especially who are privileged, rely on basic instincts and personal, flawed understanding that relating themselves with local ethos or comparing value. How can we bring light to those who shut themselves away?

[ZeaLitY]

Fuck Oktoberfest. It's sexist as all fuck. Yay, beer and tits! Fucking stupid. Reform it or trash it.

Quintili Vare, legiones redde!

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

But I do like the sausages of Oktoberfest!!!

[Lord J Esq]

A note: Daily Kos regularly commissions opinion polls from PPP. Though Daily Kos is a Democratic site and PPP usually works with interests on the left, its methods are objective and its numbers are well-regarded in the industry.

You may remember, not so long ago, the commercialization of an effective vaccine which prevents the human papilloma virus, HPV. In females, nearly all cervical cancer begins as a result of contracting HPV. The availability of an effective and safe vaccine heralded the beginning of the end of cervical cancer, with the potential to eventually save thousands of lives every year in the United States alone.

Fringe movements on both the right and the left, however, believe that vaccination is evil and should be abolished. The talking point comes up often in Tea Party circles, and recently Tea Party presidential candidate Michele Bachmann attacked Tea Party pretender presidential candidate Rick Perry for signing an executive order in Texas mandating the HPV vaccine for sixth-graders. (His order contained an opt-out clause for anyone who wanted their daughter not to be vaccinated, so it wasn't really mandatory.) Bachmann's attack gained some traction, which inspired Daily Kos to commission a national opinion poll on vaccination.

Check out the results:



That's crazy. Sick. Disgusting. Liberals are the group most likely to support an HPV vaccination requirement, and even just one-third of them support it!

The spin at Daily Kos is that the people queried by the poll reacted badly to the "mandatory" component, but it doesn't really matter. Given the implausibility of voluntary vaccination programs achieving total population coverage, opposing a mandatory program is the same as opposing the vaccine itself.

We've let the anti-vaccine people dominate this issue for so long that large portions of the public support their view. More broadly, we've fostered a culture which resents mandates and requirements in general, making it very difficult to impose anything that people do not freely want to do. That reveals a very immature grasp, on our society's part, of the concept of self-determination.

To touch on the religious aspect of this vaccine disgrace, sometimes people express incredulity when I or others argue that most religious sexism results from a desire to control females through their sexuality. Even though the argument is sound, it can be difficult to perceive in the frame of specific issues. Here's an issue where it is almost crystal clear. The HPV vaccine will virtually eliminate a female's risk of cervical cancer, which strikes about 12,000 people a year and has a one-third mortality rate. Many people oppose the vaccine not because of the whole "It'll short out my kid's brain!" argument, but because they fear it will encourage their daughters to have unauthorized sex.

But think about that for just a moment. Think about the logical implications.

"Honey, we're teaching you the value of abstinence until marriage because that's how Jesus wants you to do it. And, just to reinforce the lesson, we're not letting you get a vaccine that--should you fall short in your commitment to THE LORD--will spare you from a painful and deadly cancer. If you screw up, you deserve to die a horrible death. That'll prepare you for the eternal agony of Hell. Have a good night!"

Amen.

Whether it be out of religious fervor, or conspiracy theories, or plain old anarchism, this country is all kinds of fucked up if 57 percent of citizens oppose the HPV vaccination mandate and another 21 percent aren't sure. All kinds.

[Kodokami]

Many people oppose the vaccine not because of the whole "It'll short out my kid's brain!" argument, but because they fear it will encourage their daughters to have unauthorized sex.

Seriously? That's the number one reason for opposition?

[tushantin]

Many people oppose the vaccine not because of the whole "It'll short out my kid's brain!" argument, but because they fear it will encourage their daughters to have unauthorized sex.

Seriously? That's the number one reason for opposition?

From a mook's point of view, that actually makes sense. From a Super-Mook's (aka, my) point of view.... *brings out Shotgun* WHERE'S THAT MEATHEAD? WHERE IS HE?! SUPPORT VACCINATION OR YOU'RE GETTING AN EARLY TICKET TO HELL!

[tushantin]

*pukes* Processed yogurt is disgusting! Fuck Nestle, fuck Amul! I don't know what the fuck they put in that yogurt and call it "processed". I prefer my yogurt organic from local dairy stores, thank you.

[Lord J Esq]

What does the word "organic" mean to you in this case?

[tushantin]

What does the word "organic" mean to you in this case?

In simplistic terms, something that's not processed with preservatives, unnecessary filtering, artificial flavoring and chemicals, etc. I like my food full, fresh and real, which is why I don't buy "packs" from supermarts or big stores and prefer to get the real things from local farm distributions and dairies. Even "Fat Free" milk is a pointless abomination of the term food.

Not only do they taste horrible but there's very little nutritional value to them (many of these "processed" foods also contain elements that are indigestible by human beings). It's heart-breaking that some companies are willing to slow-poison their consumers just so they can take cheaper alternatives and make more sales.

Fuck you, Capitalism...

[rushingwind]

What does the word "organic" mean to you in this case?

In simplistic terms, something that's not processed with preservatives, unnecessary filtering, artificial flavoring and chemicals, etc. I like my food full, fresh and real, which is why I don't buy "packs" from supermarts or big stores and prefer to get the real things from local farm distributions and dairies. Even "Fat Free" milk is a pointless abomination of the term food.

Not only do they taste horrible but there's very little nutritional value to them (many of these "processed" foods also contain elements that are indigestible by human beings). It's heart-breaking that some companies are willing to slow-poison their consumers just so they can take cheaper alternatives and make more sales.

Fuck you, Capitalism...

I would like to note, just briefly, that water itself is a chemical. It's dihydrogen oxide. It makes up something like 85% of your body! Just because food contains chemicals does not mean those chemicals are necessarily bad for you.

Fiber is also 100% indigestible. It's probably the most indigestible thing anyone could eat, lest you start eating mud. But you'll get a lot of that from every single fruit or vegetable you eat! When we eat something that is indigestible, it passes through our systems. That's all. (Unless you eat a bona fide poison like arsenic. You'd know within a minute of consumption that something was seriously wrong on that one!)

The idea that food loses all its nutritional value when processed is also a fallacy. That would suggest somehow we're fundamentally changing what the original food is composed of at the molecular level simply by creating a heterogeneous mixture with other ingredients. This view disregards everything we know about basic chemistry. It may surprise you to learn that many processed foods are actually more nutritious than their unprocessed counterparts! For example, many cereals and milk products are fortified with folic acid, calcium, and other trace minerals.

There's also the false belief that fruits and vegetables that are mass grown (or not organic) have little/no nutritional value. If the nutrients weren't in the soil for the fruit, guess what? It wouldn't grow at all. Your organic fruit is going to have nearly the same chemical makeup as a non-organic counterpart. (Some of the people who advocate this stuff hard-core say that you should take all kinds of herbs to supplement your diet. Sometimes, I want to ask these people what they think herbs grow in. Soil! So somehow, the fruit is nutritionally deficient, but the herbs are not?)

The alternative health market is a big-money industry, something that often gets overlooked since real medicine is also a billion dollar industry. They preach things like "diet cure" and "eat only organic," and their false messages kill many people who might otherwise have seeked proper medical care for their ailments. That's my biggest issue with these kinds of things--they do real, serious harm, and people get hurt and die because of it (especially when it comes to supposed cancer cures).

Does the food taste better, though? Maybe! (At least I think so when it comes to some foods!) Since a lot of organic food won't use cheap fillers, you'll probably end up with better tasting food. For those who prefer organic for the taste, it's all good.

And cheap yogurt is often disgusting, I agree. I don't care for the taste of the fillers. Personally, I like plain, unsweetened premium greek yogurt the best! Get a cup, add a spoonful of honey, and mmmmmm. Delicious treat with lots of awesome muscle-building protein.

[Synchronization]

I'll qualify my post by admitting that I am by far the most obsessive dieter on this forum.  Now your point about fiber is a seldom cited one but certainly true. In particular if you are trying to lose weight, you will burn significant energy digesting fiber which is why i wont recommend full plates of broccoli or fibrous vegetables in that case.  Tushantin also has a good point though, the ratio of healthy food to unhealthy garbage available in large supermarket chains is almost astronomical.

[rushingwind]

I'll qualify my post by admitting that I am by far the most obsessive dieter on this forum.  Now your point about fiber is a seldom cited one but certainly true. In particular if you are trying to lose weight, you will burn significant energy digesting fiber which is why i wont recommend full plates of broccoli or fibrous vegetables in that case.  Tushantin also has a good point though, the ratio of healthy food to unhealthy garbage available in large supermarket chains is almost astronomical.

Indigestible doesn't mean you spend a lot of energy digesting it. It means your body doesn't digest it at all. Many vegetables are low calorie because of this, and they're good on a diet because fiber takes up room in your stomach that digestible (and therefore, caloric) food would inhabit. Celery, for example, is almost entirely fiber and water, neither of which you get any calories from. As for whether your body burns energy trying to digest that which is indigestible, well, I don't know. Anyone with a biology/medical background care to chime in?

(On that note, beware of common diet science: 90% is stuff that gets repeated so often that people just assume it's true.)

I'm curious, why would you not suggest plates full of vegetables? If your statement about fiber being energy-consuming to digest were true, wouldn't you want to eat more to lose weight?

Oh, I agree that eating your veggies is far better than indulging in microwaveable Tostino's pizza rolls, or other crap like that. You'll clog up your arteries eating nothing but stuff like that! And when you're eating things that provide you with necessary trace minerals and vitamins, that's always good for your body. That's not exactly what I was getting at in the former post. I suppose I was being a little unfair to Tushantin, as this can be a topic I get upset about. The alternative health market would tell you that eating all organic foods would cure you of everything. People have died following that advice, believing themselves to be better off without modern medicine's care, and that is what I rail against. (Which was not what Tushantin was saying at all... Sorry about that!)

Basically, your frozen/microwaveable veggies are just as good for you as the fresh ones. It's kind of silly to think otherwise, as freezing doesn't destroy the nutrients within. It doesn't make sense to claim that stuff magically loses it's nutritional value because it has some added margarine/fillers (not that the margarine is good for you, but that's not my point, heh).

I will add here, as a footnote, that I'm no expert at biology or digestive science, so I could always be wrong on some of these points.

[tushantin]

RW, I never meant all chemicals were bad. XD Vinegar and lemon are usually harmless preservatives in the right conditions, but making shit up on processed or organic food simply isn't. I don't trust corporates when they say processed food is healthier, nor do I trust them when they say organic food is "magical", but being a consumer I have the rights to know where my food comes from and how did it get here. Well, this would be a long talk (and I don't have sufficient time for a month), but I logged in to tell ya this, so I'll just be brief.

To be honest, my body can easily tell me what food is processed and what's freshly organic even if I were to eat them blind-folded. When I have uncut bread freshly baked from a bakery I feel good, but when I have sliced bread from factories I suddenly lose my appetite. This isn't a placebo either -- it's been like this since childhood, and I had little to no knowledge about processed food. Somehow, perhaps because I'm used to the rural conditions at Bengal, my body rejects foodstuffs that have been chemically or unnecessarily tampered with, and thus I can recognize organic from artificial. The case is the same for fruits, vegetables and what have you.

I also hate the lies that companies reproduce just to sell their products: I recently saw several of them falsely claiming that their "milk additives" (flavours and stuff, something like coffee but not) help children grow taller, or make them smarter, or something about "Hyper Memory Molecules". While I'm not a major in chemistry and biology, I can recognize that this is certainly fake, simply to have people agree with a douch in a labcoat. I'm not saying that these additives aren't healthy, though (some are, others not so much), but one would still be curious as to where they get their ingredients from. A lot of times some of their "cheaper ingredients" are disguised in plain sight.

And then I came upon this article.

My point: I don't want mass produced crap! I want quality crap! I don't want my tomatoes lying in beakers for several weeks until they make sure it has better fresh-span before it gets to me; I want my tomatoes straight from the filthy soil, dammit! I don't want the company's unnecessary generosity of "filtering" elements for me and adding this and that, sweet and sour, or even (God forbid) creating artificial variants. I simply want the real thing. True, the local dairy keepers (cottage industries, mind you) live in a filthy hovel, but at least their product is fresh and real (coincidentally, that's also where I buy Lassi, the kind of drink you can never properly make with processed yogurt); I'd prefer their yogurt than the mass-produced ones, and it's wholesome indeed. This is also why I walk into a local bakery for a snack instead of going into KFC (like most normal people do, I assume, but I'm not normal). This is also why I support father going to farmers' markets instead of supermarts. This is also why I prefer fruit juice to Pepsi (although, I do like Pepsi, but that's besides the point).

Humans are natural folks, not labrats. They deserve natural food. They deserve a natural life.

Today's hate: money. I fucking hate money! And today I've realized how money breaks a person with ages-full of pain. Today I understand why the poverty-stricken parents do what they do.

But I'm just not that kinda guy. I will polish shoes at a corner of a street and earn a penny, but I will never beg or kiss some rich bloke's feet!