Stuff you hate

[Lord J Esq]

Sex scandals. I hate them. Nobody wins. Everybody loses. If the accusers are lying, they've besmirched someone's reputation and made it that much harder for actual abuse victims to press their cases. If they're not lying, then they are victims of crime.

In politics, sex scandals often generate a lot of fodder for the other side. Right now, GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain is accused of sexual harassment. Many liberals are leaping on it.

I stay away from them. I never know who's right and who wrong, and I hate to exploit those kinds of crimes for gain. I also hate the ignorance or malevolence that would cause people to make up such serious charges.

[tushantin]

Sex scandals. I hate them. Nobody wins. Everybody loses. If the accusers are lying, they've besmirched someone's reputation and made it that much harder for actual abuse victims to press their cases. If they're not lying, then they are victims of crime.

In politics, sex scandals often generate a lot of fodder for the other side. Right now, GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain is accused of sexual harassment. Many liberals are leaping on it.

I stay away from them. I never know who's right and who wrong, and I hate to exploit those kinds of crimes for gain. I also hate the ignorance or malevolence that would cause people to make up such serious charges.

A seemingly unsolvable case? Sounds like the job for...

[Lord J Esq]

Hah. I'm a Miles Edgeworth fan, myself.

But I didn't necessarily mean unsolvable. It's just that we in the lay public can scarcely know who's telling the truth and who's not when it comes to these acrimonious cases.

[tushantin]

I had cold meat for lunch today.

...

The philosophical and psychological musing that followed in my head is something I can't describe at the Compendium, although a few people who know me can already guess. But I can say this:

1) Unlike anybody else who enjoys a good chicken, I have to make a special effort to eat meat.
2) My best companion is human nature. But my worst enemy is also human nature.
3) I always felt left behind because not many people think like me. Now I'm grateful that they don't.

[Thought]

The response of some Republicans to the Herman Cain scandal is utterly repulsive. While many defenses have been raised for Cain, the one I am referring it is Republican claims that Cain is innocent because there is no such thing as sexual harassment, or that while it might once have existed, it no longer does.

[Bard_of_Time]

The response of some Republicans to the Herman Cain scandal is utterly repulsive. While many defenses have been raised for Cain, the one I am referring it is Republican claims that Cain is innocent because there is no such thing as sexual harassment, or that while it might once have existed, it no longer does.

Wait.

Are they saying that the idea of sexually harassing someone is fictitious, and that even if it did happen, it doesn't happen anymore?

...

What is WRONG with these people?

[Lord J Esq]

Yes, that's what they're saying. A few days ago I read the article Thought is talking about. The conservatives perceive this scandal as a liberal assault on Cain. They're willing to assert with full force of faith from the very beginning that the scandal is manufactured, and that either it never happened at all (which is dubious given the settlement monies paid out) or that the females in question are somehow responsible for Cain's harassment (if indeed it occurred).

As to what's wrong with them, dispiritingly, very little is wrong with them. Just two things, really. One, they are scientifically illiterate and critically barren insofar as they are willing to apply logic and reason to their political thinking. Two, they exist in a political movement that promotes some truly horrifying points of view. Humans, by their social nature, are quite apt to go along with the prevailing social norms--no matter how terrible.

[Lord J Esq]

Five separate accusers, now.

Sigh...

And if I ran for president they'd say no because I'm not a Christian.

Living in Jesus Country, we are...

[xcalibur]

In one place you'll see witches being burned by Christian fanatics. In another you'll see a white guy kicking a black just for the heck of it.

In another, it's Atheists bullying and beating a religious person, even if the latter did not intend any harm.

Oh yeah, those are like, totally equal. And we all know how common it is for roving packs of atheists to go around beating up religious people.



The "persecution" of the religious by atheists boils down to having their Dominionist little bubble burst when the godless demand equal rights and freedom from religion. If we have the guts to deal with death without afterlife, they should be able to muster the tiny, tiny strength to tolerate dissent.

Atheists aren't so bad. They can be pretty belligerent and intractable at times, but they're not as bad as religious extremists in general.

It always bothers me when I hear statements like "Without religion there wouldn't be any wars". But of course there would. Wars have been fought over territory, control of trade routes, national pride, non-religious ideologies and many other reasons. Have there been religious wars?, definitely. But religion is only one dividing factor amongst many others.

However you feel about religion, it's a social force that I'm sure is going to stay around as long as we're human. The best we can do is support open-minded thought and reason and disenfranchise the noisy extremists.

I'm a deist, btw.

[Lord J Esq]

I think there's always going to be faith, but there doesn't always have to be religion, and spiritualism. The desire to believe is evolved into us, and every person (genetic engineering notwithstanding) will have to learn to cope with that predilection, and restrain it appropriately, but an individual's subscription to any social institution built around faith is subject to their assessment of that institution's credibility and appeal. We can definitely wipe out religion for the vast majority of the population, given time, education, and material prosperity.

[xcalibur]

The response of some Republicans to the Herman Cain scandal is utterly repulsive. While many defenses have been raised for Cain, the one I am referring it is Republican claims that Cain is innocent because there is no such thing as sexual harassment, or that while it might once have existed, it no longer does.

Wait.

Are they saying that the idea of sexually harassing someone is fictitious, and that even if it did happen, it doesn't happen anymore?

...

What is WRONG with these people?

The first thing a man will do for his ideals is lie - Joseph Schumpeter.

[tushantin]

I'm a deist, btw.

Nice perception! I wasn't aware we had any Deists on the Compendium, but it's great to have a new perspective! That said, I'm going to study more into the philosophy.

[xcalibur]

I think there's always going to be faith, but there doesn't always have to be religion, and spiritualism. The desire to believe is evolved into us, and every person (genetic engineering notwithstanding) will have to learn to cope with that predilection, and restrain it appropriately, but an individual's subscription to any social institution built around faith is subject to their assessment of that institution's credibility and appeal. We can definitely wipe out religion for the vast majority of the population, given time, education, and material prosperity.

I find this doubtful. Religion is a highly persistent force, and as you said it's built into our psychology. Primitive tribes had their animist beliefs, somewhat more advanced societies developed paganism with various personalities as gods, and then there are thought out, structured religions with cosmology and detailed scriptures. It has always been around. Once a viable religion starts, it can grow quickly, and even major suppression can't stop it. The Romans trampled their Christians, only for the Christians to eventually take over. Atheist communist governments have suppressed religion in their respective countries, only for it to persist and grow again after governmental collapse.

You might argue that organized religion is susceptible to education and information. That may be true, but religious organizations are just as varied and pervasive as ever. The same technology that helps an individual research and become aware has flung religious traditions around the world. We might be able to defeat theocracy, but not organized religion.

I predict that when we eventually colonize space, as we must, religion will continue to be present. A collapse of religion in the world is simply not realistic.

[tushantin]

That's an excellent point of view, xcalibur. Although Religion cannot be eradicated, however, there are some instances of control of religious ethnics either by the government or the people themselves. I always talked about the superiority of the Indian culture for its tolerance, but leaving that aside there are other examples where Governments manage to intervene to curb chaos and restlessness among the groups.

Just for information, here's the situation in Kazakhstan where unity of both religious and non-religious folks was the result of the Government, and not the People: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Kazakhstan

[Lord J Esq]

@ xcalibur:

I agree that total elimination is not likely, so long as we assume natural born humans. Religion is extremely sticky a concept; once created it's very difficult for it to go extinct. However, you misunderstood me when I said that the propensity toward faith is built into the human condition. Faith, yes. Religion, no. Religion is an invention, far more malleable than the faith impulse underpinning it, and has already eliminated previous versions of itself many times as a part of the social evolution.

That's important. It gives us with an opening to eventually correct this tremendous mistake without resorting to the same tools of oppression and conquest which religion itself uses to spread and endure. Through education, we may make people more scientifically literate, more critical, and more disposed toward philosophical fulfillment. Religion provides various benefits that are available more purely elsewhere in life. It also lays a heavy hand on the mores of society, which can easily build resentment toward it (among those who cannot escape the hand) or apathy toward it (among those who can). Meanwhile, through continued prosperity, we can give people the kind of lifestyles which naturally lead away from religion.

Religion has already imploded over the last century. Life as we know it would not be possible otherwise. Today, secular societies dominate many corners of the Earth, and many segments of people within societies are secular. In short, I think you give too much credit to religion's staying power. Its strongest roots lie in the ignorant, the downtrodden, and the indoctrinated. All of those conditions are correctable.