Stuff you hate

[Katie Skyye]

I hate the way people react when I say I want to visit Japan.

It's like they think I want to go simply because it's Japan, the center of nerdy culture, or because "Japan is cool" or for any other reason than the reasons I actually want to go. I've had people try to dissuade me, with reasons ranging from "the weather sucks" to "Japanese don't want you there." Some of them know people who have been, and complain about terribad Tokyo traffic and how humid it is in summer. It's like they think I have this life goal of visiting Japan and they have to make sure I understand that there is more to life than Japan. Or that I don't know what I'm getting into if I travel there, despite the fact that I've done a pretty decent amount of reading up on what travel there is like.

Seriously, I want to visit Japan. I don't want to live there, and I don't ONLY want to visit Japan.

I have traveled a lot in my short life. I've been to England, France, Germany, Italy, Bali, New Zealand, all over the US of A, Canada, and a few more places I'm forgetting, and my mom has been to all of those and more, like Spain, Morocco, Egypt, Panama, and more I'm sure, because she sailed as a merchant marine for over 20 years.

Most of those places, I visited before I turned seven. I barely remember them. I want to go back to them all someday, and if things in Africa/the Middle East ever calm down again, I want to check out THOSE places, too! And all the other places I haven't been, one of which is Japan.

I want to go there because I want to go ALL of the places! All the places worth visiting, anyway! And there are a lot!

Also I want an authentic katana to add to my sword collection, so traveling to Japan will prolly have to wait until I have enough money to afford one and ship it back home. n_n'

[Radical_Dreamer]

I hate the way people react when I say I want to visit Japan.

It's like they think I want to go simply because it's Japan, the center of nerdy culture, or because "Japan is cool" or for any other reason than the reasons I actually want to go. I've had people try to dissuade me, with reasons ranging from "the weather sucks" to "Japanese don't want you there." Some of them know people who have been, and complain about terribad Tokyo traffic and how humid it is in summer. It's like they think I have this life goal of visiting Japan and they have to make sure I understand that there is more to life than Japan. Or that I don't know what I'm getting into if I travel there, despite the fact that I've done a pretty decent amount of reading up on what travel there is like.

Seriously, I want to visit Japan. I don't want to live there, and I don't ONLY want to visit Japan.

I have traveled a lot in my short life. I've been to England, France, Germany, Italy, Bali, New Zealand, all over the US of A, Canada, and a few more places I'm forgetting, and my mom has been to all of those and more, like Spain, Morocco, Egypt, Panama, and more I'm sure, because she sailed as a merchant marine for over 20 years.

Most of those places, I visited before I turned seven. I barely remember them. I want to go back to them all someday, and if things in Africa/the Middle East ever calm down again, I want to check out THOSE places, too! And all the other places I haven't been, one of which is Japan.

I want to go there because I want to go ALL of the places! All the places worth visiting, anyway! And there are a lot!

Also I want an authentic katana to add to my sword collection, so traveling to Japan will prolly have to wait until I have enough money to afford one and ship it back home. n_n'

When you talk about going to Japan, do you tell people about your wanderlust and your history of travel, or do you tell them that you want to buy a katana while you're there?

[Katie Skyye]

Well, most of my friends know very well that I'm working on a sword collection, and that has literally only come up ONCE, so it's not like I'm going around all "YAY KATANA."

And I usually just add it as an aside...I don't feel like I should have to explain my reasoning every time it comes up. I have talked about wanting to go to other places, and no one has reacted as negatively as when I mention travel to Japan.

[Sajainta]

To be honest I don't blame people (especially Japanese people) for being skeptical of others who express interest in going to Japan, because Japanese culture has become so fetishized and appropriated.  It's the rare person who wants to visit Japan because they love traveling.  Most people I know who want to visit Japan are all "ooh anime and manga and samurai and video games and geisha and cool swords and Tokyo street fashion and ball-jointed dolls ooh ooh kawaii desu" etc. etc. etc.

It was similar to when I lived in Scotland and Americans would come over and say shit like "Oh I feel like I just BELONG here because my great-great-fucking whatever grandmother was Scottish and Scotland is my TRUE HOME I'm going to buy a kilt in a tartan that's for the completely wrong clan".  The Scots couldn't stand that.

Americans get cultures in a can.  They get anime and gothic lolita dresses, and kilts and celtic knots and "sexy accents", and so many of them think that's all there is to it.  I'm not Scottish, but I lived there long enough to know that it's fucking annoying when people visit your country because they've fetishized it and think your culture (or what they perceive to be your culture) is just so "cool" and "oh I'm Scottish too och aye ye wee laddie".

I'm all for traveling and experiencing new cultures, and if people want to visit Japan because they think it's so ~sugoi~ that's their choice.  But appropriating a culture and condensing it to random cool shit that you like is disrespectful, and most people I know who want to go to Japan want to go for those exact reasons.

[Truthordeal]

Thanks Saj. I wrote a reply to Katie earlier today saying I would be skeptical of her saying that at first as well, but everything I typed came across more harsh or offensive than I would've liked, so I gave up after an hour. I don't think it was anything incredibly insensiitve, but the word "weeaboo" came up a few times and I'm pretty sure I'd have pissed someone off.

[Sajainta]

It's such a shame that so many people fangirl over Japan, because then it's assumed that those who do love traveling and want to visit Japan for reasons completely unrelated to hobbies are just fangirls and fanboys.  Of course, it's ten times more annoying to Japanese people when their culture is so stereotyped.

I've been to Japan twice (not counting times I've just been through the Narita airport, because that doesn't count).  It's a nice country and the people are very polite and I liked the food...but it's just another country.  There are just as many unique and fascinating things about, say, Papau New Guinea as there are in Japan.  I can't stand it when people act like Japan is the centre of the universe, or the best country in the world, or both.

Even worse are people who expect to be welcomed with open arms in Japan just because they love Japanese pop culture.  Yeeaaahh...no.  I know this girl who loves Harry Potter, Shakespeare, the Beatles, Jane Austen, etc. and is naive enough to think that her dream of moving to England consists of English people completely accepting her just because she likes a few English things.  Yeah, that's not how it works.  You can live in another country for years and still be seen as a foreigner.  I mean fuck, that's how a lot of people view immigrants in the US.  A lot of people still see second or third generation Latino or Malay or Ugandan families as "foreigners".  Why do so many Japanese-stuff obsessed Americans assume it'll be any different for them?

Oooohhhh I could rant about stuff like this for ages.

This has been a TCK rant.

[Katie Skyye]

It's the rare person who wants to visit Japan because they love traveling.  Most people I know who want to visit Japan are all "ooh anime and manga and samurai and video games and geisha and cool swords and Tokyo street fashion and ball-jointed dolls ooh ooh kawaii desu" etc. etc. etc.

Well, I mean, that's part of it. I wouldn't go if I didn't think it was interesting! I like the architecture and want to visit temples and look at Tokyo street fashion because I love clothing design (in general, not just Japanese) and I happen to like Loita clothing but I'd rather design my own thank you and I LOVE sushi! Also hot springs! And hopefully festivals! But I'm not all HERPDERP I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT JAPAN IS LIKE EXCEPT WHAT I READ IN THE ANIMES TIEM TO TRAVUL LOLS VIDEO GAMES
I want to go different places for different reasons, after all.
I want to go to England mainly because I want to see Stonehenge and because I've been there but all I can remember is walking down a cobblestone street when it was overcast and really fucking windy.
And Venice was so damn awesome. I want to go back because ahhh it was sooo coool and I want to see more of Italy, like Rome, and Florence...and eat delicious foood~
To be honest, there are a few countries I want to go to just because OMG THIS COUNTRY KAWAII DESU, to put it one way. I mean, I just want to visit Australia because come on, it's Australia!
And there are plenty of places that are cool that I don't really want to visit. I like Russian accents and that colorful church is awesome but I don't want to travel there! >_< Not to mention most of Africa because it's dangerous as hell right now! (though really pretty ;w; )

[Thought]

Why do so many Japanese-stuff obsessed Americans assume it'll be any different for them?

It's 'cause we're Americans; who doesn't love us? With our apple pies, our Barny Stinsons, freedoms (don't forget, every other country is comprised entirely of serfs), and size (I mean really, who wouldn't be jealous of our length and girth?), it is entirely understandable that people would assume that other countries are just waiting with William-Bate'd breath for our awesomeness to arrive.

[xcalibur]

to make an analogy with fetishizing and canning cultures:

It would be like someone who never played through Chrono Trigger, and only saw other people play parts of it, posting here like "LOL HEY GUIZE im gods gift to your forum because I think that guy with the spiky red hair is way cool lolz! Lavos is a big bad porcupine!". Then they'd mention their groundbreaking theory that Zeal might have something to do with Atlantis.

I'm sort of exaggerating, but I think the analogy works. Clearly there's a lot of depth to the plot and content, which is what brought us here. And I'd think Compendiumites would be irked if someone came along with a very superficial view and experience of the game and expected to be congratulated for it.

Nations and civilizations are even more complex and deep-rooted. Visiting out of superficial interest and expecting that to make you a full-fledged member of that culture is misguided at best, and arrogant/disrespectful at worst.

[Katie Skyye]

Visiting out of superficial interest and expecting that to make you a full-fledged member of that culture is misguided at best, and arrogant/disrespectful at worst.

Well, all I really want is to visit and be a tourist for a while, when it comes right down to it. Like I said earlier, I'm not interested in living there, and I have zero desire to be Japanese (though someone quipped that "You'd fit in there just fine...because you're short." SIIIGH~).

That analogy was pretty good, though. XD

[xcalibur]

Visiting out of superficial interest and expecting that to make you a full-fledged member of that culture is misguided at best, and arrogant/disrespectful at worst.

Well, all I really want is to visit and be a tourist for a while, when it comes right down to it. Like I said earlier, I'm not interested in living there, and I have zero desire to be Japanese (though someone quipped that "You'd fit in there just fine...because you're short." SIIIGH~).

That analogy was pretty good, though. XD

lol, thanks.

and I wasn't directing that at you, I was just responding to the topic in general. there's nothing wrong with tourism in and of itself.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

There's nothing wrong for wanting to share a portion of another culture because of a common interest. If it's anime that makes you like Japanese, bull-fighting that draws you to Spain, or effing Flight of the Conchords that makes me like New Zealand, so what? That's the beautiful thing that makes the world so great - we can share these little things. There's nothing wrong, nothing misguided, nothing elitist to identify with a culture based upon a common ground. Because frankly, the anime culture is a subculture of Japan and can exist elsewhere. Bull-fighting is a subculture of Spain and can exist elsewhere. So on and so forth. No culture is a single entity comprised of simple values and concepts. Take a look around you - how many cultures do you see around you?

For those of you who have traveled and lived overseas, what's the first thing someone does when they find out you're an American? They identify with you on some level. I spent a year in Europe and most of the time when they found out I was American they identified with me by telling me something they loved that was American. Whether it was a band, or a television show, etc.

And you know what? There's an American subculture that loves Japanese anime. There's an equally large Japanese subculture that loves American westerns. Seven Samurai = designed to be a Japanese western equivalent.

Americans get cultures in a can.

You're a world traveler, Saj, are you not? Surely you see that this exists everywhere. This isn't isolated to the US. Don't villify this as an "American" concept, because it's not.

[Sajainta]

You're a world traveler, Saj, are you not? Surely you see that this exists everywhere. This isn't isolated to the US. Don't villify this as an "American" concept, because it's not.

Yes, I know it exists everywhere.  I wasn't vilifying anything American, nor did I say it was an American thing only.  I was referring to America throughout my posts because I was responding to Americans.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Okay, good. Just wanted to make sure.

[Truthordeal]

"Hey, you're English! I heard you people like dry, dark comedy with a lot of sarcasm. I bet we can share some jokes later."

"Hey, you're English! I will now quote Monty Python incessantly at you, because that is all your culture consists of."

^One of those I dislike, the other's ok.