Lavos' Impact

[X-SOLDIER]

I'm aware that this is discussed in some detail on some other areas of the forums, but hopefully this idea will be enough to warrant it's own thread. According to the Encyclopedia, PD-1 is created upon Lavos's landing on the planet. I'm not sure the exact reference in game to confirm that  & it would be much appreciated if someone could fill me in on that as it might scrap this whole theory. I'm wondering if it could be possible that PD-1 would have been created upon or immediately prior to impact, shunting him into another dimension, and allowing Lavos to avoid a great deal of damage from the impact. Not to mention that it has time to heal if it did in fact take significant damage upon hittting the planet. This would explain Chrono & company's ability to damage it as well as it being able to withstand seemingly impossible amounts of damage from impact. Perhaps it fired one it's various attacks right before impact to give that extra split second it needed to escape into PD-1. Maybe even shredding a hold into another dimenstion was enough to cause the destrustion to the Reptites...

Anyways, just a bit of theorising, and I wanted to know what the rest of you thought.


X

[AuraTwilight]

Wow. Makes perfect sense. *Claps and applauds.*

[ClayAKAMe]

I haven't looked into it and suremthis is posted some where and don't get me for it.... What exactly is lavos.... what race is he frm.... Why earth.... how does it breed.

[AuraTwilight]

I haven't looked into it and suremthis is posted some where and don't get me for it.... What exactly is lavos.... what race is he frm.... Why earth.... how does it breed.

Holy hell, play the games. But to answer your questions

1) He's an alien
2) Coincidence
3) Asexually

[ChibiBob]

I haven't looked into it and suremthis is posted some where and don't get me for it.... What exactly is lavos.... what race is he frm.... Why earth.... how does it breed.

These questions have already been discussed in other topics and in the Encyclopedia -- please look there before inquiring, or at least create a new thread to ask your question, since it's unrelated to the topic at hand.

As for the author, great theorizing! I'd never thought of that before -- after all, how could something of such magnitude crash into a planet without causing more damage than a meager crater? The most oft-accepted theory on how the dinosaurs became extinct and we plummeted into an Ice Age also applies to the Chrono world (except by substituting a meteor's collision with Lavos's impact), but instead of the physical impact causing everything to go wacky, we would have to assume that Lavos's leeching off the planet's energy would cause a similar fate.

Also, I don't recall anything about the timelines actually appearing as spoken text in the game -- it's just a convenience created by those who developed the theories on the Chrono continuum to better explain how Lavos's impact and destruction could so drastically alter the dynamics of the universe without having to settle on the whole "storywriters' convenience" excuse.

[ClayAKAMe]

Sorry i asked. I've played CT but not cc.   Ive beaten CT 8 yrs in a row

[Chrono'99]

I haven't looked into it and suremthis is posted some where and don't get me for it.... What exactly is lavos.... what race is he frm.... Why earth.... how does it breed.

- Play the games.
- Read Lavos' entry in the site's encyclopedia.
- Read the one or two articles entirely dedicated to Lavos on the site.
- Read one of the hundreds topics about Lavos on the forum.

[X-SOLDIER]

Ok, since that'sbeen accepted as a relatively good explanation, I was wondering if anyone knows how long the red star was around before Lavos' impact, cause I have a few ideas on that as well, but a lot of it depends on how long the red star was around. Though Lavos is a pretty large creature, it's un likely that Lavos would be visible before re-entry, but if it was only the re-entry, the 'star' wouldn't last for very long.

Now the idea that it would be the destroyed world it was leaving would make sense but even if it was around for several years that would mean one of a few things. The world would either need to be relatively close, or Lavos would need to be travelling close to the speed of light which seems unlikely due to the damage it would inflict upon Lavos upon impact with the atmosphere, let alone the surface before it could escape into a pocket dimension. The biggest problem with this idea is the fact that though the world would have been raised to mostly ashes by it's predecessor, it likely would have made an explosion that would last long enough to create a long lasting object like the red star since the Lavos Spawn still reside there before leaving. There is a possibility that the explosion could be a result of them leaving the ashen world however.

Another idea is if you remember that the time gate that you use to reach Lavos is dark and red, and it COULD be that it was thrown out of another dimension / time / world into ours. Depending on the duration the red star appeared it could be a time gate that was opened, and unknown where it lead to, and it was forced out. This would explain why entrance into Lavos' dimension is distinctly different than travelling to another period in time as well as the fact that has the capability to create pocket dimensions upon landing, but still has a reason for analyzing DNA. This idea is more based around the idea that Lavos could have a greater history, and leaving an opening for a pre-CT game explaining it's origins, but it's probably the most far fetched of the ideas.

Another thing that this brings up is if Lavos was fully ready when it came down. The exploding world theory means that Lavos would have been no larger/more powerful than any of the other Lavos Spawn when it impacted because it would be leaving another world in the same way, and it only seems to advance itself from drawing the information from other lifeforms, which there don't seem to be too many of in the long space travel over unless it was information it had obtained from it's predecessor. If it was a gate, that would provide a logical explanation of how it obtained the ability to create a pocket dimension upon / during impact that's different than the other ones used in CT, regardless of it having analyzed only things from this world.

What it really breaks down to is if Lavos is spawned (the exploding world), or created (the red gate). Since we don't really know that for sure it's 50/50, but I like the created theory more as it leaves Lavos as a sole entity, and leaves the possibility of the universe being destroyed by Lavoids every small. (after all FATE, time, and everything/one else has had a hard enough time coping with just one of them.


X

[AuraTwilight]

I like to think of Lavos as similar to Galactus. The original Lavos was born at the Big Bang, going from planet to planet, inseminating them, killing them off and sending it's spawn to continue it's work. The planets Lavos destroys are planets with no evolutionary potential, wastes of space and whatnot, and the planets that do defeat him are planets that can evolve and help lead all living things to a "higher dimension" (The Sea of Zurvan?) And that, just like Galactus, all the damage Lavos does will be paid back in full and more so, the good Lavos does far outclassing the bad. (Since he did save our asses against the Reptites and all, and because of Lavos, Schala became a higher, possibly quasi-dimensional being corresponding to an Ascended Master.)

[Sentenal]

Actually, I don't like the first idea.  Lavos crashed into the Earth.  That is not up for debate.  If Lavos entered the Pocket Dimension before he hit the planet, there would be no hole in the ground.  He would have just disappeared into the Pocket Dimension.

Hell, Ayla even comments on how fast Lavos burrowed into the ground.

[X-SOLDIER]

AuraTwilight: (The Sea of Zuruvan is the Sea of Time 1, 2) That's a really interesting idea on Lavos, and I admit that I like it quite a bit except for the fact that I like to think that the Lavos / Lavos Spawn you fight in CT are the only ones of their kind so there's not a possibility of the events recurring. I'll go over this in more detail in just a bit.

As for the Red Star, I have a few more quick points to bring up. This MAY just be a subtlety that's not specific in translation.

[Man]
   Red star in sky.
   See during daytime!

 [Woman]
   Red star grow strong!
   Bad sign...

The fact that it's visible during the daytime - can it still be seen at night? If not it suggests the gate theory a little more strongly. The main point outside of this is from two of our main characters - Lucca and Robo. They both reach a similiar conclusion - It appears that the immense energy that Lavos radiates alters time and creates Gates. This would (likely) mean that if there WERE more than one full grown Lavoid, it would also cause distortions in time. If in fact it were born/created and it's power continued to grow and distort time into the first Gate (the Red Star) until it actually ripped out of it's own time and fell. This also suggests the fact that the Lavos that fell was full grown upon impact. Unless the Lavos Spawn continue to grow and advance through their travels through space (to the point where upon impact they are already capapble of distorting reality), Lavos was likely the only one of its kind.


Sentenal: Frog is the only one who suggests it will burrow underground, Ayla just comments that it's already underground, and it's extremely fast. I'm not saying that no part of Lavos never impacted, as we know this for a fact to be untrue because of the Frozen Flame. If it did open a pocket dimension, my point was that it wasn't fast enough to prevent all damage done to him (kind of like a really big object flying through a small door) so that most of the damage would be to his exterior and superficial, something though could be regenerated. Also, in the great amount of debris that would be hurled into the air, it's not likely that it would be that simple to determine if Lavos was physically burrowing or sinking into a pocket dimension. Either way, you're left with a huge amount of debris and clouds of dust.

If you don't like that idea still there's always the possibility that the beam he generates from its 'mouth' could have provided some amount of force to slow him just before impact, as well as created a massive hole for him to burrow into with frightening speed. My main point is I'm trying to develop a logical way that something like Lavos could survive the fall, yet still manage to the damaged by Chrono and Company. Also, there's a large fire where Lavos impacted which suggests to support this theory.


X

[Chrono'99]

Lavos isn't unique. He's just part of a species.

Lucca: Now I understand...

   It lives on a planet for as long as
   possible, stealing away the most vital
   resources...

   It combined the DNA it found here
   with its own, and gave birth to those
   creatures up on Death Peak.

   Eventually the young must migrate to
   other planets...to repeat the cycle...

[Mother Brain]
   Listen well, humans.
   
   Lavos's children will one day have to
   leave to seek new planets, and prey.
   
   This world COULD sustain them...if
   humans were not around...

As for how Lavos survived the impact, maybe he only barely survived it. We never see him between 65,000,000 B.C. and 12,000 B.C. He could have been heavily damaged, and even if he had been reduced to one single cell, he had time to recover. This would be an effective application of natural selection, maybe only the strongest Lavoids survive their impact with a planet.

If you consider CC, then maybe he even used the Frozen Flame to miraculously protect him or heal him before or right at the moment of the impact. The Flame reverted Serge's wound when he was attacked by the panther so it's a power that it has.

[X-SOLDIER]

The above quotes only represent the fact that after 1999 Lavos reproduces and has the Lavos Spawn as offspring. It's never stated if Lavos is in fact the first of it's kind. The part about him being injured and regenerating in PD-1 was briefly mentioned before, but I like the point that you brought up with the Frozen Flame, and it's regenerative capabilities. That's something I hadn't thought of. I should probably break out CC and play through it again, since my knowledge of it is really rusty. I've spent more time, and played through CT a lot more times which might be a little bit apparent from my theroies, though it'sbeen about a year since I've played either.


X

[Sentenal]

Sentenal: Frog is the only one who suggests it will burrow underground, Ayla just comments that it's already underground, and it's extremely fast. I'm not saying that no part of Lavos never impacted, as we know this for a fact to be untrue because of the Frozen Flame. If it did open a pocket dimension, my point was that it wasn't fast enough to prevent all damage done to him (kind of like a really big object flying through a small door) so that most of the damage would be to his exterior and superficial, something though could be regenerated. Also, in the great amount of debris that would be hurled into the air, it's not likely that it would be that simple to determine if Lavos was physically burrowing or sinking into a pocket dimension. Either way, you're left with a huge amount of debris and clouds of dust.

Ayla saying is already underground and very fast means that she commented on it burrowing underground.  Anyway, Frog commenting on it is enough proof that it actually did hit the ground before it entered the pocket dimension.  And Lavos did take at least some damage from the fall.  Crono and Co wanted to go face it right after it landed, thinking it would be weak from the crash, but it didn't make it in time.  And when Lavos hit, you have the crater from the actual impact, and the a giant hole which he would have borrowed into.

If you don't like that idea still there's always the possibility that the beam he generates from its 'mouth' could have provided some amount of force to slow him just before impact, as well as created a massive hole for him to burrow into with frightening speed. My main point is I'm trying to develop a logical way that something like Lavos could survive the fall, yet still manage to the damaged by Chrono and Company. Also, there's a large fire where Lavos impacted which suggests to support this theory.

I have another way.  Lavos crashed into the planet very hard, and his shell took most of the damage.  Later on, when Crono and co fought him, they didn't go break through his shell, they busted open his mouth.  The crater from what is probably his crash supports that he crashed into the planet (otherwise, if he didn't crash, there would be no crater), and then the hole in the middle of it suggests he burrowed afterwards.  If he just shot some beam from his mouth, there would have been no crater, just a hole.  A crater is when you have a big impact, pushing land from the inside to the outside.  A hole is a hole.  A beam wouldn't create a crater, or I wouldn't think it would create a crater.

[Hadriel]

Physically, the same amount of kinetic energy was directed into the Earth no matter what, by virtue of what happened.  If Lavos slowed himself down before impact, that compounds his weight even further, because the K-T extinction event unleashed an energy roughly equivalent to 100 teratons of TNT; just like Lavos crashing into the planet, this yield isn't up for debate, either.  Lower velocity means higher mass to impart the same KE.  The fact is that he can outright survive it point-blank, and without too much damage.  The only theory suggested in the past is that his "mouth" is substantially weaker than the rest of him.

It's a fact that Crono and company are obscenely powerful; all the evidence we have points to ridiculous levels of strength for them to be able to defeat Lavos.  Though the inside probably isn't anywhere near as firm as his shell, his apparent level of intelligence suggests that it's not appreciably weaker, since his insides clearly have defense systems of their own as well as heavy armor.  Even so, they may be getting the power to damage him almost solely from the particular types of weapons in use.