Author Topic: best villian in the SE universe.  (Read 19007 times)

Sentenal

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2006, 12:56:20 am »
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For a time? FOR A TIME?!?!? LAVOS SUCCEDED FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS! I think he deserves a bit more credit. To me, Lavos was terrifying; true, he may not have had a personality of his own, (or at least one that we could see from the outside,) but it was everything that he signified, and the things he caused on the surface because of that. He stood for EVERY ONE of the Seven Deadly Sins in his own way, and thus corrupted mankind for it, causing social havoc and mankind screwing itself over time and time again. Fear is a great weapon, and Lavos instilled more fear than any other SE villan just because he was there; because destruction was inevitable. That's more than Sephiroth ever did!
Since when is 1999-2300 a million years?

How did Lavos instill fear into you?  You see a video of Lavos, and you his power.  The game gives you a good sense of how powerful it is.  But fear it?  Hell no.  At every chance, Crono and co are trying to face it.  Did you fear Lavos before you ever saw it?  No.  For all the player knew when they arrived in 2300ad, a Nuclear war happend.  You didn't even know Lavos existed.  And after you saw the video of Lavos' destruction, was there any fear there?  No.  You went hopping all over time for chances to face it.  In Zeal, where there was a real presense of Lavos, did anyone there fear it?  No, they thought they could use him!

Sephiroth as not as powerful, or as successful, but I don't grade villians on that.  Before you saw Sephiroth, you heard of his exploits, and you see his rather bloody handy work.  Lavos just really wasn't as fearful.

ZeaLitY

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2006, 02:34:56 am »
Hated Kefka,
Despised Smithy,
Respected Lavos,
Feared Sephiroth.

Magus068

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2006, 07:56:51 am »
SEPHIROTH IS THE BEST SQUEENIX VILLAIN EVER!!!!

cupn00dles

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2006, 01:28:13 pm »
This has got to be the best illustration of Sephiroth, by someone named fevereon:



Really cool drawing  :lee:

Hadriel

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2006, 02:31:33 pm »
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And after you saw the video of Lavos' destruction, was there any fear there?

FUCK.  YES.

I was afraid of Lavos the second I saw what he could do, me and every other remotely sane person who played the game.  Sephiroth's initial impact isn't even close to comparable.  He made it past Shinra's armies unchallenged and massacred a village.  That says badass.  It doesn't say overwhelmingly powerful.  Lavos destroyed modern civilization singlehandedly in his base form.  That says world-annihilating incomprehensibly ancient Lovecraftian hellspawn that absolutely nobody can do anything about.  Helplessness is a key element in the exercise of terror; which one is it more sensible to be afraid of?  I'd be willing to say that the only reason Crono didn't lay down arms immediately at the sight of such an implacable foe is that he's quite stupid in the intellectual sense of the word.  If he had possessed even a modicum of intellect, he would have turned into Shinji the moment he was told that he and his party alone possessed the power to face down Lavos.

So yes, there damn well IS fear associated with Lavos, and a hell of a lot more than anything Sephiroth manages when you first see him.  Sephiroth's been variously described as a tragic case of someone losing their reason to live, a complete psychopath, and even a delusional righteous avenger who's exacting punishment for the perceived wrongs of humanity, and he does eventually gain civilization-ending power, but at no point in the entirety of the FFVII canon does he have the sheer terroric impact of Lavos, including when he's Safer Sephiroth, whose star-destroying abilities are battle mechanics and therefore not canon.  I don't know what bizarro style-over-substance-land you're living in, but in my world we judge foes based on their demonstrated capabilities.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2006, 02:38:40 pm by Hadriel »

grey_the_angel

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2006, 04:44:01 pm »
Hated Kefka,
Despised Smithy,
Respected Lavos,
Feared Sephiroth.
hate sephiroth
despised kefka
respected tonberry king
feared Absolute virtue.

1stoftheLast

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2006, 09:30:52 pm »
Spoiler Tag

I have to argue on the point that Kefka acomplished his goals.  I certainly never heard him say that he wanted to live in a junk tower and shoot white lightning at people now and then.  The only time in the entire game that we get a Kefka "mission statement" is at the end when he says he wants to kill every living thing on earth.  And well, he doesn't even get that close. 

Now Sepheroth, his goal is to crash a meteor into a planet and then absord the life energy that gathers around said crash point.  Now let me tell you, that rock was inches away from hitin' the damn ground inches.

I digress, Lavos loses points in the personality department, and for me, thats a big blow.  So I vote for Golbez from Final Fantasy IV.  He has a deep enough character, and playing the retraslated version really gave me a better look at his comedic timing.  He is both good and evil and Most Imporantly he is an excellent foil for the hero.  And that my friends, is why they invented villians in the first place.

grey_the_angel

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2006, 09:58:01 pm »
Spoiler Tag

I have to argue on the point that Kefka acomplished his goals.  I certainly never heard him say that he wanted to live in a junk tower and shoot white lightning at people now and then.  The only time in the entire game that we get a Kefka "mission statement" is at the end when he says he wants to kill every living thing on earth.  And well, he doesn't even get that close. 

Now Sepheroth, his goal is to crash a meteor into a planet and then absord the life energy that gathers around said crash point.  Now let me tell you, that rock was inches away from hitin' the damn ground inches.

I digress, Lavos loses points in the personality department, and for me, thats a big blow.  So I vote for Golbez from Final Fantasy IV.  He has a deep enough character, and playing the retraslated version really gave me a better look at his comedic timing.  He is both good and evil and Most Imporantly he is an excellent foil for the hero.  And that my friends, is why they invented villians in the first place.

golbez loses simply for having this line "Now I, golbez, Am going to knock you all down!"

what the fuck was that?

grey_the_angel

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2006, 10:11:49 pm »
Yes, I felt that way too. Seeing that spiked serpent blew me away; I played FF7 in 2005, remember, so I was not part of the original movement. Perhaps that will discredit fanboyism.

This has got to be the best illustration of Sephiroth, by someone named fevereon:


you can have your standard looking evil look. I'll be more scared of the gothic clown with the joker smile and god like power.

... THEY STARE FOREVER. INTO MY VERY SOUL!!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2006, 10:16:26 pm by grey_the_angel »

grey_the_angel

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2006, 10:14:48 pm »
also... this one kinda killed any fear of sepheroth I had.

winne the one winged angel > sepheroth.

grey_the_angel

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2006, 10:18:57 pm »
okay okay. last sepheroth fear destroying image for me.


cupn00dles

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2006, 10:35:47 pm »
how... lame  :lee:

Magus068

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2006, 12:00:31 am »
also... this one kinda killed any fear of sepheroth I had.

winne the one winged angel > sepheroth.
Those people corrupts the image of Sephiroth.

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Sephiroth's been variously described as a tragic case of someone losing their reason to live, a complete psychopath, and even a delusional righteous avenger who's exacting punishment for the perceived wrongs of humanity, and he does eventually gain civilization-ending power
This is the reason why Sephiroth is feared & respected.

grey_the_angel

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2006, 12:07:24 am »
also... this one kinda killed any fear of sepheroth I had.

winne the one winged angel > sepheroth.
Those people corrupts the image of Sephiroth.

uh... no shit? what did you think it was suppose to do?

Sentenal

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Re: best villian in the SE universe.
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2006, 12:41:49 am »
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I was afraid of Lavos the second I saw what he could do, me and every other remotely sane person who played the game.  Sephiroth's initial impact isn't even close to comparable.  He made it past Shinra's armies unchallenged and massacred a village.  That says badass.  It doesn't say overwhelmingly powerful.  Lavos destroyed modern civilization singlehandedly in his base form.  That says world-annihilating incomprehensibly ancient Lovecraftian hellspawn that absolutely nobody can do anything about.  Helplessness is a key element in the exercise of terror; which one is it more sensible to be afraid of?  I'd be willing to say that the only reason Crono didn't lay down arms immediately at the sight of such an implacable foe is that he's quite stupid in the intellectual sense of the word.  If he had possessed even a modicum of intellect, he would have turned into Shinji the moment he was told that he and his party alone possessed the power to face down Lavos.
That nobody can do anything about?  Funny, seems that once Crono, Marle, and Lucca got past the inital shock of the Lavos video, they were fired up to take him down.  Hell, they even did.  And Crono and Marle may not be very inteligent, but Lucca sure as hell is.  But "fear" was never a huge theme of any part in Chrono Trigger.

Quote
So yes, there damn well IS fear associated with Lavos, and a hell of a lot more than anything Sephiroth manages when you first see him.  Sephiroth's been variously described as a tragic case of someone losing their reason to live, a complete psychopath, and even a delusional righteous avenger who's exacting punishment for the perceived wrongs of humanity, and he does eventually gain civilization-ending power, but at no point in the entirety of the FFVII canon does he have the sheer terroric impact of Lavos, including when he's Safer Sephiroth, whose star-destroying abilities are battle mechanics and therefore not canon.  I don't know what bizarro style-over-substance-land you're living in, but in my world we judge foes based on their demonstrated capabilities.
I judge fear based on setting, mood, actions, visuals, etc.  Setting, I would say they are on par.  You got a bloody hallway with Sephiroth, and a massacred village, and you have a wasteland with Lavos.  Mood I would say favor's Sephiroth more, because turning on the video with Lavos on really didn't have any tension building.  Though, it was a bit more shock value seeing the giant porkupine come out.  Actions, they both killed stuff.  Visuals, I would give to Sephiroth.  The Lavos video was impersonal.  You see him shell the world.  You didn't see people die, you didn't see buildings get knocked over.  Sephiroth's was much more personal, as you didn't see vague destruction from a bird's eye view.  You saw the dead people, you saw the burning houses.  Much more dramatic buildup.

In that last respect, Kefka beats them both.  When he distrupted the Statues, and caused the WoB to be destroyed, you saw both bird's eye view of destruction, and you saw induvisual people meet their ends.