Defense of Zenan Bridge

[chronotriggerfreak]

As I recall, someone was supposed to have saved her, but history has been changed!

 Frog had obviously not become some famous hero, Lucca cannot even remember his name, much less that he is Frog, and her memory isnt even jogged when she sees Frog in the Cathedral.  Crono and Co. didn't do anything, Glenn felt sorry for himself in both timelines.

This proof I have to shoot down. If you recall, no one seemed very sure about any of the history from that time period. If Lucca really knew that much about history, wouldn't she have known that Yakra had infiltrated the castle in disguise, and that the Cathedral was his hideout? I don't think these kids were history experts. It didn't seem to me that anyone in the game knew their Guardian history very well; no one ever mentioned Magus's name in 1000 A.D., no one ever mentioned the Hero's Medal. So just because she doesn't know who saved the Queen doesn't mean it wasn't Frog. I mean, who else could have done it? Look how easily the soldiers were captured by the Mystics!

[Faulce]

As I recall, someone was supposed to have saved her, but history has been changed!

 Frog had obviously not become some famous hero, Lucca cannot even remember his name, much less that he is Frog, and her memory isnt even jogged when she sees Frog in the Cathedral.  Crono and Co. didn't do anything, Glenn felt sorry for himself in both timelines.

This proof I have to shoot down. If you recall, no one seemed very sure about any of the history from that time period. If Lucca really knew that much about history, wouldn't she have known that Yakra had infiltrated the castle in disguise, and that the Cathedral was his hideout? I don't think these kids were history experts. It didn't seem to me that anyone in the game knew their Guardian history very well; no one ever mentioned Magus's name in 1000 A.D., no one ever mentioned the Hero's Medal. So just because she doesn't know who saved the Queen doesn't mean it wasn't Frog. I mean, who else could have done it? Look how easily the soldiers were captured by the Mystics!

whoa whoa whoa... i wasnt say that Frog didnt save the queen!  I was saying that his sour attitude at the castle afterwards would have happend regardless of Crono's intervention.  With the whole Lucca thing, I was just saying that Frog probably didnt go on to destroy Magus and become some great hero because no one remembered him.  I was certainly NOT saying that Frog was not responsible for the Queens rescue

[chronotriggerfreak]

Who suggested that Frog ever went on to destroy Magus? That was never, ever implied with any support whatsoever. It's blatantly obvious that Magus simply got himself killed off because he irritated Lavos trying to summon the big lug.

And sorry, your post just seemed to imply that she should've remembered Frog for having saved Queen Leene, when it seems like she definitely wouldn't have.

[Beever]

Who suggested that Frog ever went on to destroy Magus? That was never, ever implied with any support whatsoever. It's blatantly obvious that Magus simply got himself killed off because he irritated Lavos trying to summon the big lug.

Well, that, and the Masamune was never repaired in the original timeline, and I doubt Frog thought he was powerful enough to defeat Magus without it (or maybe with it and without help and encouragement from friends, too--since in his flashback, Magus easily disarms Cyrus and kills him).

[Faulce]

sheesh, i guess i cant write well at all.  Okay people above were saying that Frog became demoralized by Crono and Co. helping him out with the whole Queen Leene thing.  I was saying that Frog would have felt demoralized anyway because he said it was his fault that the queen was put in danger in the first place.  Everything I said above about him not being 'remembered' was my apparently vain way of explaining that he still would have went to the Cursed Woods and would not have saved Zenan Bridge or challenged Magus or anything because he was always too busy feeling sorry for himself.  I was just saying that despite Crono's presence, Frog would have remained demoralized.  thats all

[Leebot]

Just a few extra tidbits I picked up from the Zenan Bridge scenario in my last playthrough:

-Talking to the soldiers before bringing the rations, they reveal that they believe the legendary hero (referring to Tata) is their only hope, so they formed a protective ring around him so he could get through the bridge and find the Masamune.

-Talking to the soldiers after you bring the rations reveal they got Tata through successfully, but they were decimated in the process.

Now, if we assume that Frog wasn't demoralized (or at least, not as much), and didn't give the Hero Medal to Tata, the following might be the case:

-Frog got past the bridge before the Mystic offensive (We know this happened anyway), so even if the knights knew about the legendary hero and were counting on him, they wouldn't have needed to help him.

-The knights, not participating in a suicide maneuver for Tata's benefit, would have been at least a bit better able to maintain a defense.

-The knights may have been able to hold out long enough for word of Magus's demise to reach Ozzie's forces and demoralize them.

[Faulce]

Just a few extra tidbits I picked up from the Zenan Bridge scenario in my last playthrough:

-Talking to the soldiers before bringing the rations, they reveal that they believe the legendary hero (referring to Tata) is their only hope, so they formed a protective ring around him so he could get through the bridge and find the Masamune.

-Talking to the soldiers after you bring the rations reveal they got Tata through successfully, but they were decimated in the process.

Now, if we assume that Frog wasn't demoralized (or at least, not as much), and didn't give the Hero Medal to Tata, the following might be the case:

-Frog got past the bridge before the Mystic offensive (We know this happened anyway), so even if the knights knew about the legendary hero and were counting on him, they wouldn't have needed to help him.

-The knights, not participating in a suicide maneuver for Tata's benefit, would have been at least a bit better able to maintain a defense.

-The knights may have been able to hold out long enough for word of Magus's demise to reach Ozzie's forces and demoralize them.

Yea, only one problem with that, Glenn didn't actually give the medal to Tata, he dropped it in the cafe in Porre.  So you must be saying that less "demoralization" from Crono and Co. would have led him to avoid the cafe or go to cafe and then later try to find who picked up his lost medal.  ok sure.  But weren't people saying that he left for the southern continent in the first place because he was demoralized?  He said it was his fault that the Queen was in danger, the quote goes like this: "Twas a fault of mine that had endangered the Queen. I shall depart for good."  Not this: "Twas a fault of mine that had endangered the Queen, nor could her rescue be of mine blade alone.  I shall depart for good".  
Oh and found out the "real" reason why San Dorino doesn't exist in the present.  Remember the earthquakes that guy in  Truce Inn talks about? Well they must have been happening for years because there is  a mountain where 80% of San Dorino used to be.  heh...such a simple answer in front of me the whole time.

[1stoftheLast]

I thought the earthquake thing was supposed to be a crappy foreshadowing to Lavos.

[Akuma]

Sorry to bump this but, have all of you forgotten that fallen Guardian troop with the note about the Jugglers inside the Magic Cave? This shows that Guardia (or some other army) attempted to infiltrate Magus's Lair and ended up retreating.

About Zenan Bridge, we never see the Knight Captain fight, perhaps his power rivals that of Crono's party? Of course in the Original or Lavos timeline Frog saves Queen Leene and helps defend Zenan Bridge. Perhaps the battle turns out much differently then when Crono interfered. Maybe Ozzie as well as Zombor was defeated in this battle. The Mystics losing Ozzie, as well as later losing Magus to Lavos would very well explain how Guardia won.

Also on another note, the reason why I think the Masamune broke on Cyrus was because it hasn't been tempered with dreamstone for possibly 12,600 years.

Also, Glenn and Cyrus have battled Slash before, the circumstances of this battle we do not know. It possibly could've been in Choras, or even in that "Magus's Lair invasion" I speak of.

My thoughts also on the Frog King and Hero Medal, I believe that the Hero Medal was kept in Guardia Castle before The Frog King got hold of it somehow, possibly through taking it under Magus' orders.

And my final theory for this post, about the Acacia Dragoons, perhaps the 1st weilder of the Einlanzer was, Frog. This sounds a little unlikely but I think after he returns to his human form he takes Tata and trains him. I used to think that Frog returned the Masamune to the Denadoro Mountains when he was ready to retire and everything. But now I think he passed it on to his kids, if he had any or even Tata when he was older.

[Sentenal]

i'm pretty sure the Masamune was kept in Guardia castle, but thats a whole different topic.

conserning the battle:
The Knights did launch a suicide charge to get Tata across the bridge.  They were successful.  This tells me that they were in fact able to put up a good fight, as they punched a hole through the Mystic's lines.  As for Zombor, I think that his weakness to magic was mostly a gameplay factor.  Maybe the Knight Captain was able to trip it off the bridge.  Or maybe they even destroyed the bridge (agian, as it was destroyed when you first got to 600ad).  Regardless, I don't think the Mystics got past it.  With Magus (and probably Slash and Flea with him) dead from Lavos, the Humans rallied and pushed back the demorialized mystics.

[SilentMartyr]

Maybe in the new timeline Tata is one of the first Acadia Dragoons? That would be really funny.