Poll

Companies should provide benefits for:

Married couples only.
4 (30.8%)
Married couples and gay couples.
1 (7.7%)
All couples, married or unmarried, gay or straight.
8 (61.5%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Author Topic: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?  (Read 2239 times)

Lord J Esq

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Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« on: August 26, 2006, 10:12:30 pm »
A curious debate has arisen here in Washington politics. Earlier this year, after several decades of pushing against one of society’s glaring injustices, the state legislature finally passed a gay rights bill that prohibits most forms of discrimination against gays. The bill, which was signed into law by the governor and enjoys broad although not overwhelming popular support, nevertheless has one major omission: It does not provide for gay marriage. Indeed, the state supreme court ruled a few weeks ago that gay marriage is not going to be happening in Washington anytime soon.

So now, with the new gay rights law in place but still no way for them to marry, many mated gays are seeking to achieve some of the legal benefits of marriage—health insurance coverage, inheritance rights, etc., etc. And you might think that would be the end of the story, eh? Christian fundamentalists still get to have “marriage” all to themselves, while gay couples can pursue limited legal benefits under the law.

Except it’s never the end of the story. Here’s the problem:

Gay couples are now a protected class, just like married couples (except gays have fewer protections). They enjoy special rights and privileges that other people do not—again, just like married couples (except gays have fewer rights and privileges). Therefore, some opportunistic straight couples, who are mated but are not actually married, are now suing their employers to achieve the same rights as gay couples. The Seattle  Times explains this “Whaaaaa?!” moment:

Quote
One of the first complaints under the state's new gay-rights law comes with a surprising twist: A former Honeywell employee is challenging employers' ability to provide domestic-partner benefits to same-sex couples but not unmarried straight partners. […]

Employers who exclude opposite-sex partners from their benefit plans usually justify their action by pointing out that straight couples, unlike gays, have the option of marriage.

My first response was to roll my eyes: Christian fundamentalists will do anything to defend their title as Greatest Shitheads in the USA. However, a major corporation helped me to change my mind: You see, Starbucks already offers benefits to all couples—gay or straight. And Starbucks is a corporation I respect, so their opinion is always one that I make it a point to consider.

The result is that now I’m not sure whether this is a good idea or not. On one hand, I do see the wisdom of providing benefits to all unmarried couples rather than just gay couples. Such a policy helps reduce the importance of marriage, an institution I’d like to see overhauled or maybe even destroyed. But on the right hand, giving benefits to all unmarried couples rather than just gay couples is bound to be devastatingly expensive to many companies. How much of the total workforce is mated but not married? The costs would be unbelievable. Starbucks has shown that it isn’t impossible, but I’ll bet many companies would have a hard time absorbing such a massive expense.

What do you think, and why?

Magus22

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2006, 10:38:17 pm »
I believe these benefits should only apply to those men and women mated together, hopefully together all their lives, and only to those many individuals who have their heads screwed on right.

Again I bring up the statement of what this world is coming to. I haven't been keeping up with the news and to hear these certain individuals who enjoy... ...having intimate relations with the same sex... ...now have some protection, well, I am speechless to say the least.

These people are more than confused. It's disturbing. These certain people don't disserve actual married persons benefits. I don't care what anyone says. I almost want to say it's not fair. How come in certain areas, these selective people can have these benefits, but in some parts of the country/world, there are many people/situations that should be given more attention to.

However, part of me would want these certain people to be treated equally like everyone else. That will never happen. The mroe these crazy people announce their relationship, the more attention they will gain for others who hate their "kind" which would lead to disaster and possibly genocide in the near future. I know that sounds extreme to be taken into account right now, so pretend you didn't read that part.

My answer is a firm "M/F married couple" only.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2006, 10:41:38 pm »
Equality dictates one or the other. Either tax breaks and benefits for married couples (gay or straight) only, or tax breaks and benefits for all couples (married or unmarried). And since the level of fraud and false reporting that could come out of the last arrangement is mind blowing, I opt for number one with the legilization of gay marriage. I just wish we could put the issue to rest, but that just isn't going to happen with the current situation.

No matter what the cause, homosexuals exist. I could be narrow-minded and say this state is fundamentally wrong from nature's point of view. But I'm an idealist, and I recognize that the highest fruit of love is the adoration of two sentient beings for one another up there. That is to say, the mind. So totally ignoring the causes, morality, or ramafications of it, just legalize it and get it over with. It isn't like it'll cause some gay-bomb to hit the nation and make the human race die out.

I'm still staunchly for monogamy, though. Polyamorism strikes me as unromantic. The highest love would come from focusing on another as he or she focuses upon you. Bringing a bunch of people into the mix negates and dilutes one's ability to love another. That's my reason.

Edit: Jeez, this post makes me sound Libertarian. Let me reiterate that I'm not for the legalization of drugs. Not yet. As the human race becomes more than Q's "savage child race" (an era whose tail-end we're living in), let's not give humanity another way to screw itself. There are certain people who will use it regardless, and there are certain people who will always profit from it. They have the choice to take part in that savage cycle. Let's not extend that offer to all. Drug usage also fundamentally violates my principle of lucidity -- that if we're to learn and know anything in this life truly or with conviction, we must be decently awake.

Edit II: And that paragraph makes me sound like a gigantic, elitist nerd.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 10:53:33 pm by ZeaLitY »

ChibiBob

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2006, 11:58:47 pm »
I believe these benefits should only apply to those men and women mated together, hopefully together all their lives, and only to those many individuals who have their heads screwed on right.

Again I bring up the statement of what this world is coming to. I haven't been keeping up with the news and to hear these certain individuals who enjoy... ...having intimate relations with the same sex... ...now have some protection, well, I am speechless to say the least.

These people are more than confused. It's disturbing. These certain people don't disserve actual married persons benefits. I don't care what anyone says. I almost want to say it's not fair. How come in certain areas, these selective people can have these benefits, but in some parts of the country/world, there are many people/situations that should be given more attention to.

However, part of me would want these certain people to be treated equally like everyone else. That will never happen. The mroe these crazy people announce their relationship, the more attention they will gain for others who hate their "kind" which would lead to disaster and possibly genocide in the near future. I know that sounds extreme to be taken into account right now, so pretend you didn't read that part.

My answer is a firm "M/F married couple" only.

... Wow.

I'm usually the first to decry insulting others' personal views on controversial topics such as this, but I swear to high heaven I literally saw red while reading your post. So those of us who may share different views than you on the extent of love between and within genders "don't have our heads screwed on right"? It's entirely your perogative to choose a strict male-female relationship for yourself, but I don't recall any burning bush giving you the power to dictate that for anybody else. So you're straight as a newly-minted nail and you hear about the government passing legislation to protect bi- and homosexuals from facing discrimination in the workplace. So what? It doesn't involve you since you obviously don't fit into that category, so why be bothered about it? Now if that law said that homosexuals couldn't be discriminated against but heterosexuals were cannon fodder, then yes, I would see a legitimate reason to take offense.

And why are we "confused" for sharing a different opinion than you? Sure, you might not like having to share the high horse of civil rights with us lowly creatures, but isn't that the point of civil rights, that we can all be treated equally instead of being second class citizens in a nation that preaches unity and equality for all? And so what if people are pissed off with us "crazies"? Shouldn't that be our responsibility to deal with, instead of pseudo-do-gooders like you who would act as though you're trying to protect us while trying to further your own dream of a completely conformist America with your own moral code? I'd rather be able to openly love someone and be "crazy" then have to hide my emotions under a veneer of the "Gee, I don't want to offend anybody by being myself" mentality just because others can't accept the fact that my capacity to love is capable of transcending physical appearance much more than your average person's.

I'm bisexual, and I catch a ton of flack for it simply because I don't believe in limiting the possibility of finding my true love to half the population. I understand completely if others don't share my ideals and prefer completely hetero- or homosexual lifestyles, but I simply cannot tolerate those who can't accept others' preferences. No matter how much you whine and angst and wish for us to just disappear back into the closet from whence we came, it's not going to happen! So keep on defending your own philosophy on life and love (although I seriously doubt the heterosexual lifestyle's in any real danger right now); but don't think you can simply erase ours from existance. I love whomever I damn well please, and that's never going to change.

I'm still fully capable of falling in love with a man, as I have recently, but there's always the (albeit painful) possibility of my currently-unrequited feelings remaining as such, and if sometime in the future I meet a woman capable of holding my heart, so be it.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2006, 12:09:49 am »
Yikes, I wish you were Alisa. It's like reliving the past. I can't do the bi thing, as I'm just not physiologically or mentally attracted to males. But I completely recognize the possibility in others.

I think if someone really wanted to take this into a moral battle, you could bring up pederasty or something. Otherwise, what's been said should suffice.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2006, 12:22:13 am »
Being bi doesn't really make your ability to find your true love that much larger. Possibly not at all larger, but then again, I don't know much about the demographics of America.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2006, 12:23:42 am »
Religious and political beliefs still alienate a fat portion of the human race in that regard.

ChibiBob

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2006, 01:44:27 am »
Yikes, I wish you were Alisa. It's like reliving the past.

Haha. Unfortunately no, it's just plain ol' Heather. But I'm flattered.

Being bi doesn't really make your ability to find your true love that much larger. Possibly not at all larger, but then again, I don't know much about the demographics of America.

Perhaps, but I like to believe it does. At least I know there's always hope no matter where I happen to be looking.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2006, 02:24:25 am »
Bisexuality is probably going to become the norm in the human future, before sexuality dies out altogether. In any case, wow! This thread sure went off-topic fast. Can we save the basic pro-gay / anti-gay argument for another thread? It's been done. This thread is to talk about your thoughts on whether employers should offer benefits to straight unmarried couples, given that married straight couples and unmarried gay couples already tend to receive such benefits.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2006, 02:36:13 am »
Well, it wasn't really off topic, because Magus was just saying how he believes unmarried gay couples don't deserve the same rights as married gay couples.

My questions is what's with this marriage = rights thing?

Lord J Esq

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2006, 03:15:04 am »
Well, it wasn't really off topic, because Magus was just saying how he believes unmarried gay couples don't deserve the same rights as married gay couples.

Don't be obtuse.

My questions is what's with this marriage = rights thing?

In the United States, there are over a thousand legal rights that accompany marriage. There are some really important ones, not just financially, but also in terms of self-determination, like who gets to make decisions for you if you're sick, who gets custody of your child if you die suddenly, etc., etc. Christians, in wanting to have marriage all to themselves, put millions of gays in America through the agony of not having any legal relationship with the person they love, and thus no legal standing for all the aforementioned. There are way too many horror stories about people who have suffered because of this.

Magus068

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2006, 04:20:43 am »
I don't like the idea of same sex marriage but hey, who am I to judge?  Anyway it's their will & rights to pursue such commitment.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2006, 04:33:23 am »
This isn't a topic about same-sex marriage. Zeppy was just asking a question. This topic is about the dilemma facing employers as unmarried straight couples sue for the benefits that unmarried gay couples enjoy, which they achieved simply because they do not have the option of marriage, as straight couples do.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2006, 05:01:35 am »
How was I being obtuse? You're just sour because again, I was right and you, good sir, are wrong!

Oh, and thanks :)

Lord J Esq

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Re: Benefits for Straight Unmarried Couples, Too?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2006, 05:04:45 am »
How was I being obtuse?

You were being deliberately obtuse because the topic went off-topic not on Reply #1, but on Reply #3.