Humanity: Good News, Bad News

[FaustWolf]

When I drive through Youngstown, OH, I cannot say that globalization has been a net positive for my general area. The abandoned steel mills and auto plants are dangerous now, haunted by more than just the ghosts of the American Dream. If the folks who make free trade policy as it currently is being implemented really cared one whit for the average American, they'd spend the necessary resources retraining blue collar folks who've been left behind instead of leaving them to their private devices, not knowing what to do or where to go. Globalization is sweeping over the blue collar sector, and they haven't been culturally retrained for it. But we don't even have it all that bad in Ohio -- the unemployment rate in Detroit, Michigan, is 13.7%!! The rust belt is getting...rustier, and it makes my blood boil.

I'm not so sure the average Chinese manufacturing worker is better off now than he/she was prior to the opening of Chinese trade policy, either. The corporatists in China are definitely better off, no argument there. More incredibly wealthy people than ever. But given the lax standards with regard to lead content in products over there, I'd have to guess the average Chinese worker is going through a period very similar to what Americans and Western Europeans went through during the 19th century -- cheap labor exploitation and hazardous working conditions without (effective) union protection.

When Chinese, Mexican, and other exploited peoples can effectively engage in collective bargaining, then I will be prepared to agree with you Radical Dreamer. At the current rate of progress for the Chinese worker, I'm afraid the median household income in the US will meet the median household income in China half way -- which represents a huge drop in standards of living from our peak at around 1999/2000.

I want strikes! Strikes! Where are the Marxists in China!?

Sigh, globalization is turning me into a pinko vampiah!

[ZeaLitY]

Hell, I'm just concerned about the deficit and wealth flight. One might say "well, that's not fair to the Chinese", but realistically, American or Western scientists are more likely to discover the next big thing than those who live in collectivist, communist societies (or just hostile / impoverished regimes in general). It's a little isolationist streak in me.

[FaustWolf]

Not to mention that we may be losing control of our ability to mitigate recessions using the old tricks. Take the stimulus package, for example -- Congress is going to give every tax payer $300 ~ 600 or so, pending the final results of the legislation. Fine and dandy -- rehabilitating consumer spending is supposed to give our economy the jump start it needs -- but we're going to be purchasing products made in China with that extra money. Beyond the Wal-Mart clerk who gets these products to us, who are we even helping? The corporations using Chinese, etc., labor to produce everything we buy. A substantial portion of the money will slip right out of our economy, and essentially we'll be saddled with even greater gov't debt and nothing to show for it. Meh, hope I'm wrong on this.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Though the Chinese economic boom is doing hell for Australian jobs, it isn't fair to say that China is doing less for the scientific development of the world than America.

[Thought]

Though the Chinese economic boom is doing hell for Australian jobs, it isn't fair to say that China is doing less for the scientific development of the world than America.

How isn't it fair?

Now admittedly my perspective is skewed; I am more aware of American contributions to science than Canadian or European, and I am more aware of Canadian and European contributions than Chinese. Having freely admitted to such, from my perspective China is rather bottom of the barrel, as far as scientific development goes. So then, that I might correct this unfair perspective, might you offer some examples of how China is doing around the same (or more) for the scientific development of the world as America (or Canada, or Europe)?

[FaustWolf]

Didn't the Chinese develop gunpowder? But maybe that's not the best example for human "advancement." I imagine they're doing all sorts of stem cell research and such, but can't find an article to prove it.

Zeppelin, I'm actually kind of reassured to know that Australia is losing its jobs too. It's not just the US; maybe Germany, Japan, and the UK are going down the tubes too. Should've taken that comparative econ class...

[placidchap]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

Many countries have great inventions, but in American schools, not much is said about non-American things or what is said is erroneous.

Some examples:

First jet engine aircraft was invented by a Romanian.
Insulin invented in Canada.
Edison did not invent light bulb.

etc etc

[FaustWolf]

Good News: Placidchap has shown that, once again, Wikipedia is the best source for all information.

Bad News (IMO): Romney's out.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080207/ap_on_el_pr/romney

That means McCain can save on cash, whereas Clinton and Obama will likely duke it out right up to the convention. Huge Republican advantage, and I worry because it's possible that McCain + Ahmadinejad + NATO nuclear first strike option = end of civilization. Better buy an umbrella, 'cuz the sky could fall.

[Thought]

Didn't the Chinese develop gunpowder? But maybe that's not the best example for human "advancement." I imagine they're doing all sorts of stem cell research and such, but can't find an article to prove it.

Sorry, I seem to have not been clear in my question. As the statement I was referencing was formulated in the present tense, I concluded that it was referring to the present state of science in China, not its numerous past achievements. Thus it called to my mind people working in laboratories (such as on stem cell research, or on nanites). I didn't mean to imply that China hasn't contributed significantly in the past, just that I'm not aware of levels of scientific advancement in the present that are on par with the research levels in America, Canada, or Europe. I suppose one way of judging such a thing would be to look at Chinese scientific journals and Chinese contributions to foreign scientific journals and count up the number of published articles. Unfortunately, as such articles are generally written in Chinese, standard scientific search engines don’t turn up much (nor should they be expected to).

As a side note, I always thought insulin was discovered (as no one invented it) by Nicolae Paulescu, notably not in Canada (though Canadians were the first ones to really understand the importance of the stuff). As for the jet engine, if I recall correctly the first historical evidence of such a device was from the first century C.E., which was a bit before Romania was even a nation.

Historically speaking, the people credited with certain inventions weren’t usually the ones to first invent them and the people who first invented them weren't the ones to use them as effectively as those who were credited.

It is rather unfortunate that history doesn't make a better distinction between who first invented something and who first invented that same something in a manner that was practical and widely usable. It would make things much easier and more understandable.

Edit: As for Romney being out, that could actually be good news for you. After all, it means that the Republican primaries will quiet down a good bit and McCain won’t get as much free publicity, while Clinton and Obama still duke it out and make headlines. Of course, such would probably help Obama more than Clinton, as Obama is the more likely of the two to appeal to undecided and disillusioned Republicans.

[Prince Janus]

Edison did not invent light bulb.

 I'm gonna expand on that for some of you out there, because on a Chrono Trigger board, this should come of particular interest.

 The light bulb was invented by two french brothers with the last name Luminaire. They were essentially called the Luminaire Bros. It is from their last name that we get words like illuminate, luminous, bioluminescence, and of course,
Crono and Serge's "Luminaire"

[Radical_Dreamer]

Edison did not invent light bulb.

 I'm gonna expand on that for some of you out there, because on a Chrono Trigger board, this should come of particular interest.

 The light bulb was invented by two french brothers with the last name Luminaire. They were essentially called the Luminaire Bros. It is from their last name that we get words like illuminate, luminous, bioluminescence, and of course,
Crono and Serge's "Luminaire"

Are you sure you aren't thinking of the Lumiere brothers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_and_Louis_Lumi%C3%A8re

A quick googling turned up nothing on any Luminaire brothers, although it's possible I didn't search long enough.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Many countries have great inventions, but in American schools, not much is said about non-American things or what is said is erroneous.

That is very true. Most schools in the "West" only teach of Western contributions to science.

Zeppelin, I'm actually kind of reassured to know that Australia is losing its jobs too. It's not just the US; maybe Germany, Japan, and the UK are going down the tubes too. Should've taken that comparative econ class...

My dad almost lost his job, since they decided to move heavy maintenance for Qantas to Singapore and China. Is it a coincidence that the quality of the maintenance of the aircrafts suddenly dropped? I mean, a Qantas jet lost all its power midflight once!

[FaustWolf]

Zeppelin, sorry to hear you've been affected most personally by globalization. I had no idea about the Qantas situation; that's a darn good example of the negative impact globalization can have on product quality; thanks for pointing this out.

As for lightbulbs, I thought the same people who built the pyramids invented them...
http://www.melissaapplegate.com/images/buttons/lightbulb1.gif

All accomplished with alien intervention, of course...

...

...*runs away to save face*

[Daniel Krispin]

Edison did not invent light bulb.

 I'm gonna expand on that for some of you out there, because on a Chrono Trigger board, this should come of particular interest.

 The light bulb was invented by two french brothers with the last name Luminaire. They were essentially called the Luminaire Bros. It is from their last name that we get words like illuminate, luminous, bioluminescence, and of course,
Crono and Serge's "Luminaire"

That's rather unlikely, as the lum- root is Latin (ie. luman is light, limino is to light, etc.) As such, if the brothers had that name, it is a strangely apt one. Not sure where you heard that, but it may be one of history's urban legends. Another one that I've heard that I'm rather skeptical of (but, I don't know, might be true) is that the toilet was invented by someone with the last name 'Crapper', hence that term comes into our language. But again, that might just be an urban legend of history. (I looked it up and... the myth is that he invented the flush toilet, which he didn't... but he was a plumber, heh. Poor guy.)

[Burning Zeppelin]

@FaustWolf: It's less globalization and more capitalism (though often these go hand in hand). QANTAS was privatised, the shareholders wanted more money so they moved to Asia to get cheaper labour.