Author Topic: Humanity: Good News, Bad News  (Read 127584 times)

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #930 on: January 12, 2011, 03:48:14 am »
WTF News:
Glock Gun Sales Surge After Tuscon Rampage

I really have to tilt my head and wonder at news like this.

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #931 on: January 28, 2011, 11:43:58 am »
There have been recent psychological debates around that people are categorized in two social types: those who are content and socially active, and those who crave attention. They say that The former types are blokes satisfied with their lives and work, with possibly "too much" attention that they'd wanna take some space, while the latter ones are blokes who'd love to contribute to great things but the "true motive" behind all this their crave for attention and love.

Whenever I used to explain my grand and passionate dreams to some of my friends, encouraging them to follow similar ideals, some of them actually wondered whether people like me (and even those in the Springtime of Youth, no offense by them) actually do it because we have dreams of limelight and false-modesty.

I just like to set things straight though: I'm not sure about everyone else in the world, but the reason I have grand dreams is not because I crave for limelight (hell, I don't even know what to do after I achieve that anyway), but instead my love to watch people entertained. Like I saw Faust (Goethe) today and wondered why there aren't any recent "proper" versions of this yet (there is Kuroshitsuji, but it's loosely based) so wondered if I can make my own version of it for modern times and best quality. The reason that drove me was to watch people entertained and have new fans of the story itself.

I'm an artist, a lover of art, and love making things that aren't already around. But I wonder how many more people feel the same way as I do.


P.S.: This post made my day!

Truthordeal

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #932 on: January 28, 2011, 05:32:49 pm »
WTF News:
Glock Gun Sales Surge After Tuscon Rampage

I really have to tilt my head and wonder at news like this.

Gun owners tend to go on buying sprees after events like these because politicians have the tendency to overreact to events like these. Whenever guns or security are involved, paranoia sets in and they have a knack to go overboard and ban things.

Example: During my Sophomore year in high school, right after the Virginia Tech shootings, someone had the bright idea to write on a bathroom stall "bang bang 4/20." Schools typically get a few stunts like these around April 20th every year by a few jackasses who think wholesale slaughter is funny, and most of them get one or two more SRO's to patrol that day to make sure nothing happens and go on with it. However, since this happened right after Virginia Tech, the entire community overreacted, the principal had to go on the local radio stations to assure everyone that nothing bad was gonna happen, they had almost the entire police force at school on 4/20, and half the student body didn't even show that day(my dad forbade me from going too, so I'm not exactly completely innocent). Immediately after that, the school board came up with the extremely practical and reasonable solution to ban bookbags from the high school. They actually passed a ban like that, and it's only because our principal wasn't thinking like a politician that he refused to enforce the ban until it was revoked after the time of panic subsided. He also retired that year, but people keep trying to convince me the two events were unrelated.

Another fine example, and less longwinded, is when the DC area banned Call of Duty games because of the DC Sniper shooting at people.

----------------------------

the tl;dr version: politicians like to enable public paranoia by banning things after a tragedy like in Tucson. Gun owners make sure to buy now so they'll have it when that does happen. It's a bit heavy handed, but it gets them votes.

Mr Bekkler

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #933 on: February 05, 2011, 10:55:29 pm »
Bad news: thought I found a dead pixel. My first ever!   :evil:
Good news: was just some crap on my screen!  :lol:

Thought

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #934 on: March 02, 2011, 03:43:38 pm »
Today's offering is a little bit of both good news and bad news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12624539

On one hand, the Supreme Court is right in protecting free speech. But on the other hand, this is the Westboro Baptist Church.

Though I wonder if Christians could sue Westboro for libel on God's behalf, since that is not protected by free speech.

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #935 on: March 02, 2011, 04:48:37 pm »
A sad turn of events indeed. Any true Christian would actually be ashamed. But then any true Christian wouldn't sue them on "God's behalf" because nobody is entitled to speak for God whenever he feels like. No, they'd do sue the Westboro in the name of Humanity, and Humanity alone. Even the Atheists would.

Bad News:
Well, it ain't really a news, but I've come to a grave realization that majority of the corporate world, or in any business or social circle, the worst are goddamned asslickers. People say internet trolls are bad, but they only ruin your day. Butt-kissers ruin your career, and perhaps even may ruin your lives.

True, the only kinds of people who would resolve to flattering their higher ups and whisper-in in order to get promotions and take credit for things they haven't done would be those that aren't good enough in their jobs, and admittedly wouldn't reach the apex of their careers, but they certainly would pull down any hardworking genius who surpasses them and ruthlessly grind them in the dust. No matter how good you are, how brilliant you are, you're going to face these antagonists everywhere.

Thought

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #936 on: March 02, 2011, 06:06:48 pm »
To note, "libel" can include the dissemination of information without regard to if it is correct or false. Thus, such an action wouldn't need to speak for God, but merely demonstrate that the Westboro church is, essentially, talking out of their asses.

Truthordeal

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #937 on: March 03, 2011, 08:40:49 am »
The main problems with Westboro are that Phelps lacks Christian humility(a common trait among people who choose to impose their beliefs on others) and that he seems to have no grasp of the Scripture he uses. He often cites Isaiah to prove that God's right and he's gonna punish all of us for accepting homosexuality. True, Isaiah does have a lot to say about humbling yourself(again, a message he missed) but Isaiah's concerned with the Exile, an event that took place 2500 years ago, not the modern day. He also loves citing a certain verse in Isaiah to prove his point(I don't remember which one, because Isaiah repeats the same thing for about 20 chapters) yet that verse in particular also mentions God saving the people of Jerusalem after he judges them.

All that being said, and I'm not condoning anything here, but if someone were to say, ride the curb a bit and run over all of them when they're out protesting, you couldn't find a jury in the US who would convict them.

Sajainta

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #938 on: March 03, 2011, 08:49:03 am »
Not to mention that they seem to forget that kind-of famous Bible verse everyone knows that says that God so loved the world (y'know.  Meaning everyone) that He gave His only Son, etc. etc. everyone can quote that verse in at least three languages.  Or maybe there was a massive mistranslation and only Phelps has the correct version, which says something like "For God so loved the world (and dead soldiers, and definitely not Sweden or gay people)..."

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #939 on: March 03, 2011, 11:25:42 am »
I'd hate to break such an interesting topic, but...

Not sure whether good or bad news:
New DNA evidence clears man imprisoned 17 years for rape

Good news: Justice has been served properly.
Bad news: 17 friggin years later?! An innocent man's life is ruined!

It's funny how law is designed to protect us, and yet if it fucks up at times those who pay the price are always the innocent.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 11:36:54 am by tushantin »

Truthordeal

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #940 on: March 03, 2011, 12:15:20 pm »
Not to mention that they seem to forget that kind-of famous Bible verse everyone knows that says that God so loved the world (y'know.  Meaning everyone) that He gave His only Son, etc. etc. everyone can quote that verse in at least three languages.  Or maybe there was a massive mistranslation and only Phelps has the correct version, which says something like "For God so loved the world (and dead soldiers, and definitely not Sweden or gay people)..."

Or, pretty much anything to do with Jesus' ministry. I hate to be this type person, but it's really hard to consider you a Christian if you're gonna ignore everything the Jee-man said. That's kind of the definition of what we are.

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It's funny how law is designed to protect us, and yet if it fucks up at times those who pay the price are always the innocent.

QFT.

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #941 on: March 04, 2011, 11:52:20 am »
I thought perhaps I could start a new topic "Everyday Deduction" with an idea, but decided that this idea should remain in this thread instead. I will begin that other thread later.

Bad News: No matter how civilized and intelligent you are, you will almost always rely on your primal instincts.

You may say I'm making a big issue over nothing, or might call me uncivilized or incapable for not making better decisions, but that still doesn't make me hesitate to share my views.

Today's Friday, a day off from work. Most of my friends were busy with their examinations, so I thought I'd stay home and watch TV (which I hardly do) and begin working on my novel. After days worth of working on my eProject and spending sleepless nights struggling with Maya's limits, I deserved some rest. With mom's short trip to the hospital, I also had a bit of time alone in solitude.

Enter: A bee, taking a dynamic entry through my window! It was huge, and was interested in a power-saver bulb on the ceiling. Any kid would have been scared, and fortunately I wasn't. Nevertheless, I took caution (insects have ways to make your days miserable... holy shit, that statement would be an awesome rap!), and walked away, further from it.

That's when something hit me, and quite a philosophical idea: the bee, dangerous though it was, couldn't have come here on its own. It was past evening, and I couldn't think why this bee would have been stranded at this time. Plus, the closest hive was about two blocks away, on a tree, and there was a lot of darkness in between. For any animal or insect that are not nocturnal, it isn't often wise for them to approach human territory alone for, despite their lack of sufficient intelligence, it would have been either brave or stupid.

Now consider this: the bee was stranded, and decided not to return home safely but to follow his desires and find the brightest of lights, and it found my window. Doesn't matter whether it knew it was walking towards its demise, but it followed its heart nevertheless. With great enthusiasm, it kept headbutting my lightbulb, as if claiming this newfound property as its own.

While I pondered, which only took a few seconds actually, the bee somehow hit the ceiling fan nearby and fell flightless. I was expecting this somehow, and thought quick. What did the bee do so wrong? Why was I so afraid of approaching it? Perhaps it's the sting? But it would heal in a few days, possibly months, but yeah? Maybe the bee meant no harm, but would still hurt me if it viewed me as a possible predator? And what was the worth of the bee's life to me, anyway?

That last personal question startled me. Despite my observations, immature at most, displayed my selfishness. How would an animal be any worth to me? Any worth to anybody? And I thought, that while I hesitated, most others wouldn't give a second thought to squish it with a newspaper, and almost everybody would somehow, even subconsciously, value a person, animal or thing based on how they're useful to them. The bee still tried to find its escape, all flightless, in vain.

This was my big decision. Should I try to heal it, or just kill it? Would killing a bee make me a murderer? Nevertheless, insects are annoying. Or shall I join the better half of humanity, the kindness, and heal the bee? Or shall I simply analyse it? But it had been long since I've abandoned my medical equipments, and I had none at the moment. Even if I were to try sealing it in a jar to bide time while I get some from some friends, the bee would die nonetheless. Though I had a strong urge to save it, there was only one solution left to me.

I grabbed an old book and placed it over it.

After that, I was lost deep in thought over complex theories and questions, but I'll make this short. Humans are imperfect, and despite their gifts they rely on primal instincts. Anything that disgusts them will be placed in a critical/fatal place, and anything adorable or useful will be placed in their utmost protection. Out of our helpless, selfishly inferior emotions and fear I haven't the foggiest of how many millions we've slaughtered and how many we'll continue to do, not matter what their potential may be. But humans are still weak despite their superiority, and it's the thought of dying that keeps them safe, keeps them surviving.

Also, there's a reason why most people are afraid to follow their dreams and/or desires. No matter if you're a human or a bee, intelligent or a fool, there's always a possibility that a tiny screwup can lead to the end of your life, even if you haven't done anything wrong. A lot of people understand that and fear for their lives. But at the same time there are these few people, who defy that law and choose to try. Like the bee, they may brag about not fearing death, but are still scared enough to lay a brick. And yet they march on, to claim their blinding light.

I pray to those believers that you're not alone, and I pray to the folks of the believers to not let those fools walk alone. But don't stop them either. They have those fires in their eyes that can make a difference, only when you all walk together can you achieve your dreams. I pray you all success in your lives (even if it means those bees could have killed me in a swarm, but what the hell).


P.S: Another observation made me see something else. Although grand, noble dreams are worth risking your life for, don't mistake it for desires (or temptations, I'd like to call it). Some would easily get confused with these two terms, but temptations are not worth achieving, for it deceives you from achieving your dreams. There is nothing wrong with listening to your heart, but weigh your decisions wisely. Procrastination, craving, monetary-lust, etc. temptations have ruined many in the past, like it ruined the bee, and this is where a rational mind is essential.

But when you've finally acheived your dreams, then don't hesitate to take those rewards. You've earned it.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #942 on: March 04, 2011, 01:42:51 pm »
How thoughtful! I think you would have been right to put this in a different thread.

Bad News: No matter how civilized and intelligent you are, you will almost always rely on your primal instincts.

The accuracy of that statement varies considerably from person to person, and even within the same person at different points of time. I tend to agree with you except for the "almost always"; my own observations suggest that it is significantly less often than "almost always," if still often overall. This kind of behavior, at its best, is a complement to our rational existence. At its worst it is an abdication of personal responsibility.

I would also distinguish between thoughts and actions; our instincts have considerable access to shape our thoughts (including our emotions, as you later point out), but have much less freedom to shape our actions, as they will encounter the sentient will.

That's when something hit me, and quite a philosophical idea: the bee, dangerous though it was, couldn't have come here on its own. It was past evening, and I couldn't think why this bee would have been stranded at this time. Plus, the closest hive was about two blocks away, on a tree, and there was a lot of darkness in between. For any animal or insect that are not nocturnal, it isn't often wise for them to approach human territory alone for, despite their lack of sufficient intelligence, it would have been either brave or stupid.

First of all, that's awesome that you keep knowledge of the nearest beehive. That not only demonstrates a broader curiosity, but to me it stands out because I think it highlights one of the differences between our cultures. You would rarely hear anybody here say something like that. Then again, maybe it's rare in your country too. I don't know where the nearest hive is. I don't know where any hives are, here. (In fairness, I am also a visitor here, fairly new, and beehive knowledge is one of those bits of trivia that can creep up with time.)

Given what you described, it sounds like the bee was already dying. It was disoriented and behaving in a disordered, dangerous (for itself) manner. That's common for insects when they're about to die.

What did the bee do so wrong?

The bee did nothing wrong. "Wrong" is an irrelevant word. To apply, the bee would have to have been deliberative and self-aware. Its irregular behavior, leading to a collision with the fan, occurred as a natural event. Our perception of its suffering is the result of anthropomorphization.

I include myself in that, to be sure: There are opiliones (benign spiders with tiny bodies and long legs) everywhere here. They can lose legs in a crisis, and can even deliberately shed legs to effect an escape from danger. I regularly see them with seven legs. Sometimes I see them with six, and this deficiency hinders their movement. Only once have I seen one of them with just five legs. That one is in the bathroom now, apparently still alive after several days. I could not help but feel sorry for it, since a losing a leg is for a spider what getting a strike is in baseball: Three and you're out. The spider doesn't move much, and when it moves it does so with considerable difficulty. Recently another opilion encountered it, and they sat on the wall together for a while before the healthier one moved on.

I decided that I understand so little about the spider's predicament that any attempt to improve its situation would be for my own benefit rather than the spider's, because for the spider any assistive action I took would be a crap shoot. The only meaningful action available to me would be to undertake a crash course in arachnology so that I might better understand this spider's situation. But even that noble maneuver would be subject to the "squeaky wheel" fallacy. What about all the other creatures in distress? If I care enough to help this one, why wouldn't I care enough to help them? It gets overwhelming very quickly: I don't have the means or the desire to be responsible for the wellbeing of so many animals. Thus, it comes back to being self-centered. We don't usually help animals in distress for their sake. We do it for our own sake, to alleviate a perceived suffering (regardless of whether our perception is accurate) and thereby spare ourselves the difficult emotions of pity and sorrow.

I decided quite a while ago that I would not hold myself responsible for the welfare of wildlife. I ignore creepy crawlies indoors when I can, and evict or kill them otherwise. The eviction is mainly for spiders. I have arachnophobia, and used to kill spiders indiscriminately. Letting them live is a helpful therapy. I am not yet quite to the point where I appreciate being crawled on, though. But I digress!

And what was the worth of the bee's life to me, anyway?

To you, almost nothing. That is your nature, and the bee's nature. What if the sun were only able to shine on a single cubic meter of space at a time? It wouldn't be a very useful sun! Its strength is that it can shine everywhere at once. Human concentration and human energy cannot be everywhere at once. Generally, we can only do one thing at a time. Helping a bee in distress does nothing to help you, nothing to help civilization, nothing to help beekind as a whole. It is very likely an utter waste of your time and energy. At the most, your intervention would only soothe your guilty conscience, and provide relief to the bee itself. But the extent of that "help" is questionable. The bee does not possess the faculties to appreciate your gesture. It does not possess the means to experience suffering as we would in a similar situation. Our understanding of other life, or mine anyway, cannot say if the bee could, by any possible sense of the word, "appreciate" your intrusion upon its situation.

The worth of a thing is dependent upon many variables, most of which are subjective. No one is likely to hold it against you for helping a bee (in the future, since this one is dead), but I would encourage you to ponder the justification for such an action until you can explain exactly why you would intervene.

This was my big decision. Should I try to heal it, or just kill it? Would killing a bee make me a murderer? Nevertheless, insects are annoying. Or shall I join the better half of humanity, the kindness, and heal the bee? Or shall I simply analyse it?

I like your last question. In my view, the best thing that bee did for you was to help you be thoughtful. The bee didn't know it was doing that, so it can't take any credit, but it created a situation which got you to thinking about your philosophy. I think that's the best solution to the dilemma of whether to be a bee killer or a bee healer. In truth, it probably doesn't matter if you were to kill or heal the bee, except to the extent that it would influence your opinion of yourself and your practical obligations.

But it had been long since I've abandoned my medical equipments, and I had none at the moment.

Were you in medical school at some point? Or did you simply keep them on hand to cultivate your own interests, knowledge, and powers?

Humans are imperfect, and despite their gifts they rely on primal instincts. Anything that disgusts them will be placed in a critical/fatal place, and anything adorable or useful will be placed in their utmost protection.

To the extent you are speaking of emotions rather than behaviors, I think you are spot on. To the extent you are speaking of behaviors, I consider it an exaggeration.

P.S: Another observation made me see something else. Although grand, noble dreams are worth risking your life for, don't mistake it for desires (or temptations, I'd like to call it).

I imagine "desire" is a very difficult word to understand for people for whom English is not their first language. I see what you are saying, and it is not an invalid use of the word "desire," but because "dream" and "desire" are so interchangeable in this sense you would be better to consider "temptation," which you mentioned, or words like "disposition," "inclination," "proclivity," or, alternatively, words like "trying" or "striving." (I offer the links as a matter of convenience so that you may compare connotations and etymologies.)

Some would easily get confused with these two terms, but temptations are not worth achieving, for it deceives you from achieving your dreams. There is nothing wrong with listening to your heart, but weigh your decisions wisely. Procrastination, craving, monetary-lust, etc. temptations have ruined many in the past...

This passage, however, would not appropriately be described by any of the words I listed, nor even by "temptation," which is more general in its denotation. The word "desire" would not be appropriate either, except through its association with Buddhist jargon, which, in English, discourages desires. Rather, what you are describing here are character flaws not because of any energy spent pursuing them, but because you think they are not worth pursuing at all.

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #943 on: March 05, 2011, 12:29:46 am »
All that being said, and I'm not condoning anything here, but if someone were to say, ride the curb a bit and run over all of them when they're out protesting, you couldn't find a jury in the US who would convict them.
there be a shitload of lawyers in tha WBC
dats tha real reason they be protestin so much, tha signs are made to provoke peeps to attack them, then dey sue da city fo not respecin they freedom of speech. its all a big scam, they basically the midwestern white equivalent of gangstas,...but real gangstas dont disrespect god tha way da WBC does. As my nigaa Magus would say. "Play wit fire, and u get burned"

tushantin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #944 on: March 05, 2011, 02:17:39 pm »
@Lord J: Thanks for your time!

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I would also distinguish between thoughts and actions; our instincts have considerable access to shape our thoughts (including our emotions, as you later point out), but have much less freedom to shape our actions, as they will encounter the sentient will.
When you mentioned "significantly less than almost always", I couldn't help but agree. But recent neuroscience studies show that despite our considerations between two or more decisions, our minds decides our next action a couple of seconds before it happens. Even if we were to disregard that, majority of humans would still prefer to rely on basic instincts and experiences, rather than have a productive lifestyle. And our current standards of living, though better than the past, aren't helping in any way.

Quote
First of all, that's awesome that you keep knowledge of the nearest beehive.
:lol: Actually, I don't. I merely deduced with what I do know: mainly, I observed the nature and patterns of certain nearby bees a couple of weeks ago, and that hives are found several blocks away in a nearby garden, just besides the building some of my friends live. The only hospitable environment for the bees would have been just in between where an old guy lives (what's his name), but even then traveling as far would have been out of their daily patterns and potentially threatening. Plus, we've got plenty of pigeons and ravens (stupid pigeons constantly keep coming into our flat).

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Were you in medical school at some point? Or did you simply keep them on hand to cultivate your own interests, knowledge, and powers?
Nah, I was never in medical school, but I did keep some lab apparatus at home during high school for my love for physics and chemistry. Let's just say I loved taking things apart and fixing them back. Unfortunately, I abandoned those practices in order to dedicate myself to art.

Quote
The bee did nothing wrong. "Wrong" is an irrelevant word. To apply, the bee would have to have been deliberative and self-aware. Its irregular behavior, leading to a collision with the fan, occurred as a natural event. Our perception of its suffering is the result of anthropomorphization.
Haha by "wrong" I was implying whether the Bee deserved the consequence of its decision or temptation, but true about the anthropomorphization. Nevertheless, insects and animals do feel pain even if they have no way of expressing linguistically, and most would defend via biting or, in case of the bee, stinging, which brings another thing in mind.

Despite our intelligence, any other complex organisms value their lives the same as a human. So would it really be so unnatural to feel sympathy for their pain? After all, it should be easy for us to understand their level of intelligence via patterns alone.


EDIT: (continued)

When you explained how a single bee wouldn't be worth saving lest it was for our own benefit, then I wonder what our worth would have been if we weren't the only intelligent species in our solar systems. Compared to larger entities like large-scale industries, worth of human effort is sometimes negligible as employees could be easily replaced with similar talent. The same could be said about the life of each soldier among thousands, who are being sent to Afghanistan; to some cases, expendable, but to the level of human relationships, valuable.

Forgetting for once that one person isn't responsible for the welfare of every animal or insect he sees, it often seems like the progress of empathy has slowed down in this day and age, limited to a very few races. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, maybe the creature does not understand "appreciation", and we ask ourselves, "Why would we help this one if we haven't much to gain?"

And I ask myself, "Why NOT we help this one even if we haven't anything to gain?" It may be a waste of time. The bee may end up stinging me. But to me, it would provide more insight on the depths of humanity.

For everything else, on the other hand, I really don't know if there's anything you've said I could add into or argue about. It pretty much makes sense. Though another thing that triggers my thoughts is when I look at these insignificant critters. They are miniscule and fragile, easily expendable. They're evil, annoying little critters. But at the same time they are our own mirrors from the past. Ever wonder what we were, how we were at their stage. We had no morality, no sympathy, and perhaps even then we learned to survive in colonies and devour something or the other for survival.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 03:55:03 pm by tushantin »