Author Topic: Humanity: Good News, Bad News  (Read 128403 times)

Romana

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2006, 07:45:56 am »
Yes, and Cobain's a bad example, considering Courtney Love offed him.
Haha, classic.
Quote
GASP! ZeaLitY speaks to us! *grovel* *fawn* O, great and beneficent leader, lead us! *adulate* *extol* We are not worthy! *bow*
Err, where did that come from?

I'm wondering the same thing... :lee: And, he double-posted! *Gasp* :shock:

ZeaLitY

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2006, 03:09:20 am »
Good News: 118 has been cracked: http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/10/17/new.element.ap/index.html

Bad News: Apparently, women without scarves are uncovered meat: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/26/australia.cleric.ap/index.html

HELLO:



Honestly, there is a paucity of good news right now. CNN's Science and Space page is a treasure trove of "guess how global warming ruined your stuff now?" Dire, dire.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2006, 04:09:15 am »
Bad News: Apparently, women without scarves are uncovered meat: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/26/australia.cleric.ap/index.html

Here's another account of the story, with a heavier focus on how the cleric blames women for being raped if they don't hide their humanity underneath a mountain of veils:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/290165_australia27.html

Here is the quote in question:

Quote from: Islamolf al Hitler
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's?"

This is unforgivable and intolerable. I'll put it to you people straight: Islam promotes crimes against humanity. Islam itself is a crime, legitimized by fact of numbers, zeal, and an obsequious liberal multiculturalism in the West that permits these atrocities to persist despite superior power. Tolerance of the intolerant is appeasement, plain and simple, and it is worse than dishonorable--it too is criminal.

If anybody who professes a shred of sympathy for that fucked up religion wants so much as as a microbe's prayer of redeeming Islam as something more to humanity than a confederation of criminals, act now. Act now, or you are complicit in all of this.

I've had it, I have absolutely had it with these miscreants. If the Republicans and other conservatives around the globe want to start bombing Islamic countries and arresting Muslim leaders, I am not going to argue with their fascist logic. I have better things to spend my time doing, like helping human beings who are declared no more valuable than raw meat by the doctrine of a billion fanatics. This is no longer the Dark Ages but the 21st century, and no Western country should ever put up with this kind of religious bullshit.

Christians, you're on notice too. You know who you are. But Muslims, you're at the edge of the cliff. The goodwill of advanced nations is exhausted.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 04:15:22 am by Lord J esq »

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2006, 04:45:36 am »
Man, that happened ages ago.

And funnily enough, how almost every single Muslim in the entire country disagreed with him, and condemned him, and asked him to step down. Oh, but let's listen to this one person!

ZeaLitY

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2006, 04:55:15 am »
The root of the problem is there notwithstanding extremism. Women must wear scarves and be treated differently. Each time I see scarve-wearing women at Wal-Mart, it gets me down. Sexism needs to be a shameful relic of our history. Keywords: shameful and history.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2006, 06:04:04 am »
The root of the problem is there notwithstanding extremism. Women must wear scarves and be treated differently. Each time I see scarve-wearing women at Wal-Mart, it gets me down. Sexism needs to be a shameful relic of our history. Keywords: shameful and history.
Damn this world and the freedom of clothing :roll:. Women can wear whatever they want. The right to cover yourself up and wear a scarf should be freely enjoyed as the right to wear a miniskirt and a tubetop. A woman on the news the other day said she wore a scarf as a symbol of her faith, not to protect herself from sexual harrasment.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2006, 06:05:35 am by Burning Zeppelin »

Magus068

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2006, 09:23:51 am »
The root of the problem is there notwithstanding extremism. Women must wear scarves and be treated differently. Each time I see scarve-wearing women at Wal-Mart, it gets me down. Sexism needs to be a shameful relic of our history. Keywords: shameful and history.
Damn this world and the freedom of clothing :roll:. Women can wear whatever they want. The right to cover yourself up and wear a scarf should be freely enjoyed as the right to wear a miniskirt and a tubetop. A woman on the news the other day said she wore a scarf as a symbol of her faith, not to protect herself from sexual harrasment.

Amen...

ZeaLitY

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2006, 02:39:28 pm »
Several religions have some kind of inherent sexism due to their being created in ancient times. No one gets off the hook.

Good News: Federal Exercise guidelines are on the way. If the people in charge of drafting them are informed, passion-of-youth types, they shall succeed and allow citizens to cut through bs, myths, and incorrect attitudes about exercise like a steak knife through butter. http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/10/26/exercise.guidelines.ap/index.html

Bad News: This planet is getting its ass kicked. I've read these "how many planets does a country use" reports before, and this seems to be a new one. And congratulations; we'll need two Earths to make it to 2050. This is a strong argument against overuse of natural resources and by extension an argument again population growth. http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/10/24/humans.planet.reut/index.html

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2006, 04:56:05 pm »
The root of the problem is there notwithstanding extremism. Women must wear scarves and be treated differently. Each time I see scarve-wearing women at Wal-Mart, it gets me down. Sexism needs to be a shameful relic of our history. Keywords: shameful and history.
Damn this world and the freedom of clothing :roll:. Women can wear whatever they want. The right to cover yourself up and wear a scarf should be freely enjoyed as the right to wear a miniskirt and a tubetop. A woman on the news the other day said she wore a scarf as a symbol of her faith, not to protect herself from sexual harrasment.

In the civilized world, a woman is free to wear (almost) as little or as much as she pleases. It is in theocracies that this choice doesn't exist. The problem isn't that some women would chose to cover up in the absence of government or social enforcement. It's that there are parts of the world where such enforcements exist. This is unforgivable. To advocate institutionalized dehumanization of half of the population is treason against man kind.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2006, 10:42:07 pm »
The root of the problem is there notwithstanding extremism. Women must wear scarves and be treated differently. Each time I see scarve-wearing women at Wal-Mart, it gets me down. Sexism needs to be a shameful relic of our history. Keywords: shameful and history.
Damn this world and the freedom of clothing :roll:. Women can wear whatever they want. The right to cover yourself up and wear a scarf should be freely enjoyed as the right to wear a miniskirt and a tubetop. A woman on the news the other day said she wore a scarf as a symbol of her faith, not to protect herself from sexual harrasment.

In the civilized world, a woman is free to wear (almost) as little or as much as she pleases. It is in theocracies that this choice doesn't exist. The problem isn't that some women would chose to cover up in the absence of government or social enforcement. It's that there are parts of the world where such enforcements exist. This is unforgivable. To advocate institutionalized dehumanization of half of the population is treason against man kind.
Fair enough, but I was specifically talking about the Western world. In a theocracy, it is a whole different story, as a country deserves to rule how it pleases.

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2006, 03:42:14 am »
The root of the problem is there notwithstanding extremism. Women must wear scarves and be treated differently. Each time I see scarve-wearing women at Wal-Mart, it gets me down. Sexism needs to be a shameful relic of our history. Keywords: shameful and history.
Damn this world and the freedom of clothing :roll:. Women can wear whatever they want. The right to cover yourself up and wear a scarf should be freely enjoyed as the right to wear a miniskirt and a tubetop. A woman on the news the other day said she wore a scarf as a symbol of her faith, not to protect herself from sexual harrasment.

In the civilized world, a woman is free to wear (almost) as little or as much as she pleases. It is in theocracies that this choice doesn't exist. The problem isn't that some women would chose to cover up in the absence of government or social enforcement. It's that there are parts of the world where such enforcements exist. This is unforgivable. To advocate institutionalized dehumanization of half of the population is treason against man kind.
Fair enough, but I was specifically talking about the Western world. In a theocracy, it is a whole different story, as a country deserves to rule how it pleases.

Err...no. It doesn't. The rights of people are always more important than the rights of governments.

For reference:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2006, 04:39:49 am »
The root of the problem is there notwithstanding extremism. Women must wear scarves and be treated differently. Each time I see scarve-wearing women at Wal-Mart, it gets me down. Sexism needs to be a shameful relic of our history. Keywords: shameful and history.
Damn this world and the freedom of clothing :roll:. Women can wear whatever they want. The right to cover yourself up and wear a scarf should be freely enjoyed as the right to wear a miniskirt and a tubetop. A woman on the news the other day said she wore a scarf as a symbol of her faith, not to protect herself from sexual harrasment.

In the civilized world, a woman is free to wear (almost) as little or as much as she pleases. It is in theocracies that this choice doesn't exist. The problem isn't that some women would chose to cover up in the absence of government or social enforcement. It's that there are parts of the world where such enforcements exist. This is unforgivable. To advocate institutionalized dehumanization of half of the population is treason against man kind.
Fair enough, but I was specifically talking about the Western world. In a theocracy, it is a whole different story, as a country deserves to rule how it pleases.

Err...no. It doesn't. The rights of people are always more important than the rights of governments.

For reference:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
I'm not picked sides or anything, but who says the UN should have the ultimate say in rights?

Hadriel

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2006, 09:19:44 am »
Bad News: Apparently, women without scarves are uncovered meat: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/26/australia.cleric.ap/index.html

Here's another account of the story, with a heavier focus on how the cleric blames women for being raped if they don't hide their humanity underneath a mountain of veils:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/290165_australia27.html

Here is the quote in question:

Quote from: Islamolf al Hitler
"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside ... and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat's?"

This is unforgivable and intolerable. I'll put it to you people straight: Islam promotes crimes against humanity. Islam itself is a crime, legitimized by fact of numbers, zeal, and an obsequious liberal multiculturalism in the West that permits these atrocities to persist despite superior power. Tolerance of the intolerant is appeasement, plain and simple, and it is worse than dishonorable--it too is criminal.

If anybody who professes a shred of sympathy for that fucked up religion wants so much as as a microbe's prayer of redeeming Islam as something more to humanity than a confederation of criminals, act now. Act now, or you are complicit in all of this.

I've had it, I have absolutely had it with these miscreants. If the Republicans and other conservatives around the globe want to start bombing Islamic countries and arresting Muslim leaders, I am not going to argue with their fascist logic. I have better things to spend my time doing, like helping human beings who are declared no more valuable than raw meat by the doctrine of a billion fanatics. This is no longer the Dark Ages but the 21st century, and no Western country should ever put up with this kind of religious bullshit.

Christians, you're on notice too. You know who you are. But Muslims, you're at the edge of the cliff. The goodwill of advanced nations is exhausted.

I could lay out the numerous moral and political problems inherent in actually banning a religion, and why, short of systematic genocide, it's completely unenforceable, but why bother?  Analysis would pale in terms of potency to the fact that these people have actually gotten J this mad at them.

Even the analogy itself demonstrates how guys like him think of women.  And really, if they can't be trusted to not rape a woman unless she wears a goddamned blanket, then the lot of them are dangers to civilized society.  For all their bitching and moaning about American sexual promiscuity, they're the ones that need to fix themselves.

Quote from: ZeaLitY
Bad News: This planet is getting its ass kicked. I've read these "how many planets does a country use" reports before, and this seems to be a new one. And congratulations; we'll need two Earths to make it to 2050. This is a strong argument against overuse of natural resources and by extension an argument again population growth. http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/10/24/humans.planet.reut/index.html

Guess that means it's time to get cranking on those Mako reactors.  Hey, what's this planet ever done for us, right?


















Fuck ARAMCO.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 09:21:46 am by Hadriel »

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2006, 05:13:04 pm »
I'm not picked sides or anything, but who says the UN should have the ultimate say in rights?

The point I was making is that there is international law, and member states of the UN can't (in theory) govern however they want. Honestly, I don't think the UN has the authority. I think that human beings intrinsically have basic rights, and any nation that denies people of these rights is an unforgivable tyranny. The main point of my post, however, was that the rights of human beings are more important than the rights of governments.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2006, 08:01:06 pm »
Man, that happened ages ago.

And funnily enough, how almost every single Muslim in the entire country disagreed with him, and condemned him, and asked him to step down. Oh, but let's listen to this one person!

You are either oblivious to the events in your own country or deliberately twisting the facts. Not surprising. Okay, here's the truth:

This guy:



Who is no less a figure than the titular "Grand Mufti of Australia":

Quote
For the last three decades, the public face of Islam in Australia has been the Federation of Islamic Councils, or AFIC. In 1988, AFIC appointed an honorary mufti who became the titular head of the Islamic community in this country. Egyptian-born Sheik Taj Din al-Hilali, has himself become a source of friction within the community.

Said in a Sydney sermon in September 2006, at the beginning of Ramadan:

Quote from: Grand Moff al-Hilali
“If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden, or in the park, or in the backyard without cover, and the cats come to eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats’ or the uncovered meat’s,” The Australian quoted Hilali as saying.

“The uncovered meat is the problem,” he was quoted as saying. “If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred.”

Quote from: But wait, there's more!
He said women were "weapons" used by "Satan" to control men.

"It is said in the state of zina (adultery), the responsibility falls 90 per cent of the time on the woman. Why? Because she possesses the weapon of enticement (igraa)."

Which can be used in court as a legal defense of sexual assault:

Quote
Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward said Al-Hilali, who has the title Mufti of Australia, had a history of making such comments and should be thrown out of the country.

"It is incitement to a crime. Young Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man, their leader in court," she told Australian television.

Yet he thinks nothing of it, claiming to have only been protecting the honor of women, and he even repeats his initial comment comparing women to meat:

Quote from: Islamolf al-Hitler
On the fourth of the month of Ramadan, while we were in this blessed mosque, and after the nightly prayer, the sheik read from the Sura of al-Maida, and I was commenting on the verse, "The man thief and the woman thief, cut off the hands of both..."

God put forward man before woman in theft and woman before man in adultery. And then I started to present the seductive means, and how the man should control his urges.

I am guiding my daughters, my women. I call for chastity. And if this country is going to forbid us from protecting our honour, and preserve our dignity, I preserve my honour with money that I do not spend, may God not bless money after the honour is lost.

Australia is a multicultural society. Whoever wants to, let them take their clothes off. Whoever wants to go naked, let them go naked. Whoever wants to get drunk, let them get drunk. Whoever wants to smoke hashish, let them smoke hashish.

It's a free country; it's none of our business. But it is our right to tell our women the text of the verse 59 of the Sura of al-Nour (The Light) ... of the Sura of al-Ahzab (The Clans).

Verse 59 of the Sura of al-Ahzab: "Oh, Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble." This is the word of God.

Some of our women who are Westernised say that the religious hijab does not accord respect. The religious hijab, they say, does not increase respect for the woman or protect her.

We order the wearing of the religious hijab that God has ordered us to wear. There is nothing to this ... when we condemn debauchery, shamelessness ...

The Australian Bureau of Statistics says that every six minutes in Australia there is an assault against a male minor or female minor. This is rape, and it is present in the Western societies. We are fighting this rape. We are fighting this.

We want to protect the honour of all the people. And we do not encourage our sons to rape. A Muslim man is ordered to refrain from looking. Rape, to us, is a crime worse than adultery. It borders on murder.

We have said it and declared it 100,000 times, that Islam is against rape. Islam does not instruct to rape. Islam prohibits rape. In Islam, the crime of rape borders on the crime of murder.

And still, those who are sick in the heart ... only when the cow is brought down on the ground, you see a lot of knives ...

Everybody is issuing a statement to look good in the eyes of the Government.

I say: By God, if they put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand ... the sun, the moon, Australia, America and the Western world, in order to give up the principle of the Islamic, moderate, Koranic calling, then I swear to God that I will remain all by myself until God makes me a martyr!

Crowd: Allah Akbar! Allah Akbar!

Hilali: It's not about cowardice. I order according to my Koran. And I adhere to the principles of my Koran. And I know that this is a democratic society, and it allows me to speak the word of truth. I don't care ...

It's not about that. We are building the Australian society. And when we order chastity, when we preserve our honour, when we preserve our daughters, it doesn't mean that we are fanatics and extremists ... and we describe the woman as so and so, as meat ... We were comparing.

When you leave a piece of meat in the yard without supervision, when you put a piece of meat on the footpath, the voracious wolves will snap at it. That is our comparison.

And yet, despite global condemnation, he will not face censure:

Quote
But he said he had no intention of stepping down. Instead, al-Hilali will not give sermons for two or three months, though he will not face censure for his comments, a spokesman for the governing association of his mosque said.

The decision prompted further condemnation.

So you see, Burning Z, that this is not just "one person" as you so cavalierly put it, nor is this one person facing any real retribution from his sponsors. This is the face of Islam in a developed and advanced country: Australia. And you, as an Australian Muslim, are personally responsible for it. Unless you stop apologizing for this man by trying to write him off as "one person" who made a comment "ages ago," and actually start making an effort to get scum like this removed from their pedestals of power--be they official or popular--you are liable, culpable, and guilty for his remarks. This is as surely as United States citizens are personally responsible for having elected this idiot president of ours to power, and are guilty of propping him up unless we work to rectify our grave blunder.

But you don't want to hear about that. You want to pretend it isn't a problem. Maybe that's because you yourself advocated physically abusing women in another thread on this Compendium. Maybe it's not that you don't want to see a problem. Maybe you really don't see a problem with the Mufti's remarks.

So a hearty fuck you to your bullshit religion and your inexcusable defense of its most fanatical leaders, Zeppy. You are a part of the problem.

Here's something Hadriel said:

I could lay out the numerous moral and political problems inherent in actually banning a religion, and why, short of systematic genocide, it's completely unenforceable, but why bother?  Analysis would pale in terms of potency to the fact that these people have actually gotten J this mad at them.

"This mad" is right. But it's not just me. I would like to think that all civilized people who got wind of this disgraceful story would be "this mad" about it. And I would like to think that such people would reject this fucked up religion not by the fiat declarations that Hadriel describes, but by universal revulsion. Nonetheless, if anybody in power wants to make any fiat declarations against Islam, I'm not going to argue with them. I'd rather spend my breath where it's needed.

Edit: Here is the face of the scandal now:


« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 08:12:55 pm by Lord J esq »