CT Melchoir question

[Crono0801]

Ok so I always wondered wtf was up with this.

Ok how can Melchoir be in the present before Crono and them saved him for Mt. of Woe? In the original happenings Melchoir and the other Gurus were thrown through the gates right. But could Melchior be there if he was sealed at the Mt. of Woe? Crono saved him right but what if Crono didn't save him, he would still be sealed at Mt. of Woe right? If he was sealed who could he have been thrown through the gate?

Could destiny/FATE have just thrown him into the present knowing that it was Crono's destiny/FATE to go save him?

[V_Translanka]

Remember Magus' flashback? That's the original timeline. That shows how Melchior got in the gate. The Gurus were only banished when Magus was sent to Zeal again when Crono & Co. interrupted his summoning of Lavos.

[Crono0801]

Thats right i forgot that Magus wanted to awaken Lavos and that the Gurus didn't want to awaken him so Magus told the queen to banish them. Thanks I never thought about it like that.

[Radical_Dreamer]

Here's a question, slightly off topic though.

If Magus had succeeded in summoning Lavos to his castle and was victorious, would that be the end of that, no erruption in 1999 A.D. or would Magus be doing battle post erruption like the party does? If he would have averted the erruption (which is what I think for now) that would have had a dramatic effect on history...the knowledge of Lavos would have died forever with Magus...

[Symmetry]

Perhaps my memory is off, but you don't have to fight Lavos "post-eruption". You can take him on at a number of points in time.

And I would assume, yes - had Magus been victorious in defeating Lavos, the future Crono saw originally would have never happened. Of course, Magus failed once in this attempt. Who knows what it would have taken for him to finish off Lavos in the Middle Ages.

[V_Translanka]

Magus didn't win though...Lavos took care of him originally...So you're asking "What If...?" I guess? I suppose no one would really know, no...Although Chronopolis seemed to have Lavos' impact date on record, so not ALL knowledge of Lavos would be completely gone...

[Radical_Dreamer]

Perhaps my memory is off, but you don't have to fight Lavos "post-eruption". You can take him on at a number of points in time.

The actual battle with Lavos occurs after his erruption in every instance except in the Ocean Palace.

[Crono0801]

So I wonder what happened. Ok Lavos kills Magus in 600 AD right then he just goes right back into the warp or where ever Magus summoned him from without no eruption or destruction?

[Radical_Dreamer]

Yes. Lavos kills Magus, goes back to sleep for another 1399 years, then errupts and destroys the world.

[Crono0801]

haha thats funny. its like waking up at night to use the restroom and going back to sleep, like nothin happened.

[V_Translanka]

The actual battle with Lavos occurs after his erruption in every instance except in the Ocean Palace.

What about when you challenge him from the Black Omen? I don't know if you consider that too his erruption...But whatever...Either way you end the fight in that whacky temporal vortex thingy outside of time anyhow...So any damage he caused is before the fight is minimal.

So I wonder what happened. Ok Lavos kills Magus in 600 AD right then he just goes right back into the warp or where ever Magus summoned him from without no eruption or destruction?

Why would Lavos? He needs to draw more energy from the planet, Magus simply interrupted him from doing so. So Lavos takes care of that, then goes back into hibernation until 1999 (or whatever).

[Radical_Dreamer]

Not sure about the Black Omen...Zeality could probably respond better by giving some info from the Pocket Dimension Theory.

[chronotriggerfreak]

Zeality isn't necessary to explain the Pocket Dimension Theory; several of us could do it, and it was GrayLensman's theory in the first place, anyway. I'm not willing to explain it in detail right now, since you could probably find it by searching the forums (I believe the topic called "Four Lavos Questions" or some such title had the main discussion on this theory), but basically it's this: Lavos does not actually (or at least not necessarily) lie dormant in the planet for 65,001,999 years. Instead, he resides in a "pocket" of time and space called a Pocket Dimension. This connects through a wormhole (or in this case, a series/network of wormholes) to real time-space at several points: namely, all those time periods that you can travel to and find him in. He exists in the same form, age, and power at all these places at once, much like time passes for Crono and the party at the same rate in all time periods at once. So in reality, he could have been gathering energy through wormholes from the planet for a much shorter time. That blue vortex you always fight him in is the Pocket Dimension; you enter it, fight him, and come back out. I believe the only time Lavos actually leaves the Pocket Dimension is to rain destruction from the heavens in 1,999 A.D., and even then I may be mistaken.

I think I started to explain more than I meant to, and I started making less sense than I meant to. Excuse me. For full information, I'd suggest looking up any topics on Lavos that are still on the boards.

[ZeaLitY]

Yes, the timelines of Pocket Dimensions, the End of Time, and the Darkness Beyond Time all run 'perpindicular' to the normal flow of time. Once Lavos is defeated, he is defeated forever. This doesn't mean he will be totally absent from history; Zeal will still fall regardless whether Lavos exists, as his exiting the Pocket Dimension is a form of time/dimensional travel, and thus grants the experience immunity. This is why even though Crono changes time the original Belthasar from the Lavos timeline appears in 2300 A.D., not the Belthasar from the Keystone Timelines. It is a fact of history that the original Belthasar walked out of a Gate in 2300 A.D., and thus he is protected.

[Radical_Dreamer]

You are correct, CTF, my apologies to Lensman, you, and anyone else I may have offended.