Paradox of time travel..........

[GavenDrake]

Paradox of time travel: this is the question that has been battleling scientist ever since the theory of time travel was formulated..an enigma that doesnt seem to have a solution.....It is said that time traveling is not possible due to the "cause and effect" problem and the changes that may occur that will negate the main purpose of time travel on the fiorst place......Example: if you can travel through time, you could go back and kill your grandad..right? some scientist would say otherwise....Why? because if you do that, you wouldnt have been born in the first place, and if you havent been born then how could you go back in time to kill your grandad?? errr to make it more confusing if you failed to kill your grandad then you surely would have been born and can travel back in time to kill him....... ??? confusing??? cause and effect, its like a circle of event that couldnt possible begin and couldnt possibly end........

the good thing about it is that the paradox has its holes....

for exmaple, what if you dont want to kill your grandad, lets say you just want to meet him..then the paradox will not apply...it will only apply when theres action involve, like if you would like to give your grandad 100 million dollars for example, if you did that action and you were born then the paradox will again be applied because if you give him that and then when you were born, you might not think to go back and give that to him on the first place because he  already had that before you were born, what if  you didnt choose to go back in time......

What do you think?? could you share it with me?? i'd like to know what you guys think about this paradox and how did the author of chrono trigger managed to dodge the paradox in the story........ 

[Magus22]

It is said that time traveling is not possible due to the "cause and effect" problem and the changes that may occur that will negate the main purpose of time travel on the fiorst place

In temporal mechanics, sometimes an effect can supercede the cause. I am curious why you did not mention that . . .

Your reasoning is interesting, but if you were to go back in time and even look at you grand father, you alter history and time. Being in the past, or being the individual you are today, alters your surroundings. Just standing in a park with people taking a walk and children playing alters the past. You are NOT suppose to be there and therefor you contaminate your own history and time.

A stand alone action, as you stated, is but a minor step you could even try to accomplish. That and any action is futile because you are already altering the past time you now stand in.

Do you understand where I am coming from?

(i.e.) I yelled from across my stadium bleachers yesterday (watching my former high school's, girls varsity soccer team play) to the goalie, "great job Delap!!" In reality, her future has now been altered and the choices she makes will be different from the ones she would've taken had I not yelled out to her for an outstanding second half of the game.

Similar in terms of action/reaction, she heard me or someone call out her name nearby, which shifted her mind away for a brief moment, made her think "who might that be" or "how awesome". The end result is . . . I changed her life path because of such a little action. Minor actions, such as this, have a powerful affect on anyone. No matter what people say, an action even so minor such as staring someone in the eyes in the hall way at school, will have an impact on that individuals life in the future.


Believe it, for it is the truth. As you read my post, (and this goes for everyone) I have changed the way you look at things, or at least made you think. Nontheless, you will be a different person after you read it. The individuals who did not know about this thread and did not read my post are unaffected, unless someone informs them otherwise.

Confused?

[GavenDrake]

hmm, i believe you are reffering to the chaos theory......... this theory is a much more complicated issue...but you are right about it, its must be taken into consideration.. but my point is that how can someone go back in time without triggering the paradox? like i said cause and effect, if you will not cause something to change like on your example, if you are just there but not seennor noticed by anytime. your meer presence has no effect......i think the chaos theory has its limitations, and may alter the present due to simple changes in the past.. and the chaos theory could exist without triggering the time paradox........for me the time paradox is an obvious option but not a valid one you can choose it but it wont change anything, you wotn even remember choosing it, if time traveling is possible..... well these are just my own opinion heheheh hope you could share some more of yours..........

[Magus22]

I see where you're coming from.

but my point is that how can someone go back in time without triggering the paradox?

It is impossible to time travel and not contaminate the time line.

The paradox in reality is real, you cannot do it. In CT, however, you can . . . but that's a fun RPG where anything can happen!

[GavenDrake]

just my point.... and if no one could go back in time without affecting the time paradox...then it would make time traveling impossible doesnt it? hmmmmmm some things are best left unanswered 

[Mavix]

Alot of things sre ment left unanswered. Like why my mom think lima beans could solve world hunger the world may never know!

[GavenDrake]

there you go hehehe, i guess that concludes this thread 

[Elenita]

just my point.... and if no one could go back in time without affecting the time paradox...then it would make time traveling impossible doesnt it? hmmmmmm some things are best left unanswered 

exactly- like if we tried to go back to stop something like the Inquisition-then, there's no Inquisition to stop.

[nightmare975]

just my point.... and if no one could go back in time without affecting the time paradox...then it would make time traveling impossible doesnt it? hmmmmmm some things are best left unanswered 

exactly- like if we tried to go back to stop something like the Inquisition-then, there's no Inquisition to stop.

Thus then you never create the time machine making the Inquistion rexist, so you make a time machine...

[Romana]

just my point.... and if no one could go back in time without affecting the time paradox...then it would make time traveling impossible doesnt it? hmmmmmm some things are best left unanswered 

exactly- like if we tried to go back to stop something like the Inquisition-then, there's no Inquisition to stop.

Thus then you never create the time machine making the Inquistion rexist, so you make a time machine...

And Pyt Fumv's head explodes due to confusion. 

[Magus22]

And Pyt Fumv's head explodes due to confusion. 

The one thing I've learned, about explanations on paradoxes and temporal mechanics, is too never even try to explain them.

Leave them unanswered . . .

[Rydis]

just my point.... and if no one could go back in time without affecting the time paradox...then it would make time traveling impossible doesnt it? hmmmmmm some things are best left unanswered 

exactly- like if we tried to go back to stop something like the Inquisition-then, there's no Inquisition to stop.

Thus then you never create the time machine making the Inquistion rexist, so you make a time machine...

Hence the game of Cross.  The paradox might not happen if a parallel world was created.  But if this happens, then you are surely screwed.  Why?

1.  You create a time machine to kill Adolf Hitler.
2.  Now instead of a paradox, you get a parallel world created. One in which you kill him and one in which you dont.  The problem?  What happens if you end up in the wrong world?  You you have a time machine and no way to get back to the world in which you killed him.
3.  So you do the next best thing, go back in time again, thus creating another parallel time line.  This time you land in the right world.  However, this is no longer a future because you started the line when you did the action.  There is no future to go to.
4.  What about the other 2 time lines?  Do you still exsist in them?  What if you kept landing in the wrong world and created infinate about of parallel time lines?  Can you have to many that something might collapse?  Will someone discover what happened and try to combine two worlds?  What will happen?

There are holes in which I didn't address here.  But such an event is just as likly to occur since both are impossible to do.

[CyberSarkany]

If you go to the past to kill someone, you would be in the dimension where that person died(going to the futur is just like waiting long: If you kill someone now, he will stay dead in the futur).
Of course there may be the dimension where you didn't go back in time(->the person you wanted to kill was still alive), and another one where you didn't kill that person, and yet another one where you have been killed before/after you time travel, and another one where you weren't even born. Oh, and don't forget the one where the person you wanted to kill doesn't exist, so you don't want to go back in time. And many many more, if you think dimension splitting stuffy wise, every moment(as in every slowest move the time can make) unlimited dimension are "born".

[Rydis]

Let me reiterate.

1.  You go back in time to kill someone
2.  Since the paradox could still happen, a different time-line wasn't made (I say time line because dimension is something alot different).
3.  When you kill someone is when the paradox would start.  However, there is another option, a new time-line.  Problem is, if you say in the time-line in which you killed the guy, then what happened in the other one?  Are you stuck in the past?  Is there 1 of you and now 2 of everyone else?
4.  The new line doesn't have a future so you can't go back, your stuck in the past.
5.  If you found a way to go back to the original line, what time would you appear in?  The past or the present?

Traveling forward in time is alot different then traveling backwards in time.  This is because if you travel forward, then that means you must be living in the past to be traveling forward.  If thats the case, then the past is really being played over and over and over again with all events leading up to present time again.  So to be able to travel forward in time, you must be in the past, therefor if your in the present, you can't travel to the future.  Thats why your stuck in the past.

Of course, something like the Butterfly effect could always happen also.

[Magus22]

1.  You go back in time to kill someone
2.  Since the paradox could still happen, a different time-line wasn't made (I say time line because dimension is something alot different).
3.  When you kill someone is when the paradox would start.  However, there is another option, a new time-line.  Problem is, if you say in the time-line in which you killed the guy, then what happened in the other one?  Are you stuck in the past?  Is there 1 of you and now 2 of everyone else?
4.  The new line doesn't have a future so you can't go back, your stuck in the past.
5.  If you found a way to go back to the original line, what time would you appear in?  The past or the present?


Of course, something like the Butterfly effect could always happen also.

From what you're saying, if you go back and kill someone, another time line will be created. As soon as you warp back to a time where you wanted to kill someone and land your time machine, you have already created a new time line. So, we have the original time line where you originated from, and this new time line that you created coming back. Now you kill whoever you want to kill, in essence, your original time line has been destroyed or severly altered by your actions in the new.

Just being noticed by people down the street will alter the time line drastically. Remember, you aren't created yet if you travel back beyond birth. One of many things can happen in a situation like this which I do not want to get into at the moment.

There are duplicates of everyone no matter what you do. By time traveling, you are in essence recreating a time and place which once happened, that is currently happening. If you traveled back around the same time far after your birth, say when you were 16 years old and you kill Osama, then there are duplicates of everyone you know at the time of your current age of 16 in the time lines even before you killed him.

The Butterfly Effect applies to this situation and many others. However, I do not believe one single butterfly's wings could alter weather patterns. Without any Butterfly's at all, weather would still be the same. Now, if in the past Butterfly's somehow contributed to the elements of our Earth far before Dinosaurs or even the creation of the Moon, then it may be plausable.