Spekkio...

[Tonjevic]

And if Spekkio is only a being who can teach fire/lightning/water, then it kind of makes sence.

Sorry to be a spelling nazi, but I have seen 'sence' spelled with a c so many times this week, and every time it has irritated me. It is actually spelled with an s, like so:  sense.

Again, sorry, but I feel it had to be said.

[Mystik3eb]

Spekkio...can't teach Shadow? That's...an assumption. None of the characters have the internal elemental control of Shadow that doesn't already know it. And yeah, Magus could teach him a thing or two...maybe...except that if Magus were to face him alone, he'd get his ass handed to him on a silver platter. Seriously.

[Zaperking]

Spekkio...can't teach Shadow? That's...an assumption. None of the characters have the internal elemental control of Shadow that doesn't already know it. And yeah, Magus could teach him a thing or two...maybe...except that if Magus were to face him alone, he'd get his ass handed to him on a silver platter. Seriously.

No proof of that. We're only limited by the battle system. We saw that Crono/Frog/Marle and Lucca had a hard time vs him. Now if those 3 had a hard time beating him, then that shows something. And if 3 can beat Spekkio, then that shows something too. Meh. Spekkio is over rated.

[CyberSarkany]

Battle system wise, Magus alone can easiely beat Nu Spekkio(me=battle system freak)

[Chrono'99]

Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.

That doesn't mean anything. In CC, any combination of colors can make any combination of color, without much coherent rules:
Serge's White + Glenn's Green = Red X-Strike
Viper's Yellow + Radius's Green = White VitalForce
etc.

Even in CT, you can make Shadow with Heaven+Fire+Water, but even Fire+Water is enough (Antipode). If Fire+Water makes Shadow, that would make Fire and Water low-level elements and BOTH Heaven and Shadow prime elements, according to your reasoning.

[Zaperking]

Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.

That doesn't mean anything. In CC, any combination of colors can make any combination of color, without much coherent rules:
Serge's White + Glenn's Green = Red X-Strike
Viper's Yellow + Radius's Green = White VitalForce
etc.

Even in CT, you can make Shadow with Heaven+Fire+Water, but even Fire+Water is enough (Antipode). If Fire+Water makes Shadow, that would make Fire and Water low-level elements and BOTH Heaven and Shadow prime elements, according to your reasoning.

I'm just saying that it could be possible. One can't just say that the Zealians magic dissapeared because the Mammon Machine broke. Dalton, Zeal, Schala and Magus all retaining theres shows that theres other parts to it. And we all know that Zeal and Dalton for one relied on the machine, since they wanted it unleashed to get more of it.

And it's heavily assumed that Zeal and Schala and Dalton use shadow magic. I mean, come on, no one ever saw Crono and Marle and Lucca ever fly or transform things into frogs etc.

Also, as for the CC thing, those were elements which are seperate to magic.
The weird thing about the elements is that they make it seem as if everyone is born element innate, which i think is bull. It could have been just for the battle system. Also, I've never used X-Strike or VitalForce so meh. X-Strike was probably just chosen to be Red, maybe because of the red X that it produced for all we know.

[AuraTwilight]

I don't know. It just seems kind of like it. Spekkio himself said that Magus could teach him tricks. And if Spekkio is only a being who can teach fire/lightning/water, then it kind of makes sence.
Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.
And besides that, Magus has so many other tricks up his sleve. Like flying, turning people into frogs, time travelling etc. I don't think any of that goes under the other catagories of magic (lightning/fire/water)

Ok, um...Magus is a Zealian, who probably knows all four types of magic despite his innate anyway. So...WTF is your point? Also, who says that the three know ALL magic spells of their particular elements? For all we know, Glenn's Frog curse could be a water elemental spell.

I'm just saying that it could be possible. One can't just say that the Zealians magic dissapeared because the Mammon Machine broke. Dalton, Zeal, Schala and Magus all retaining theres shows that theres other parts to it. And we all know that Zeal and Dalton for one relied on the machine, since they wanted it unleashed to get more of it.

The Zealian's magic DID dissapear when the Mammon Machine broke. The Zeal Royal Family is apparently just innate, though, so they're exceptions. Zeal and Dalton clearly didn't rely on the machine by your own earlier sentence. They just wanted to get more than their natural limits allowed.

And it's heavily assumed that Zeal and Schala and Dalton use shadow magic. I mean, come on, no one ever saw Crono and Marle and Lucca ever fly or transform things into frogs etc.

Again, who says Crono and co know every spell there is to know of their respective elements? Otherwise magic is seriously limited, don't you think? Don't see how they'd make a floating continent or a time machine otherwise. I mean, come on. By that logic, Every act of magic we see in the game would be Shadow based, and that's frickin' stupid.

[Zaperking]

I don't know. It just seems kind of like it. Spekkio himself said that Magus could teach him tricks. And if Spekkio is only a being who can teach fire/lightning/water, then it kind of makes sence.
Anyway, the Delta Techs all remake a shadow effect.
And besides that, Magus has so many other tricks up his sleve. Like flying, turning people into frogs, time travelling etc. I don't think any of that goes under the other catagories of magic (lightning/fire/water)

Ok, um...Magus is a Zealian, who probably knows all four types of magic despite his innate anyway. So...WTF is your point? Also, who says that the three know ALL magic spells of their particular elements? For all we know, Glenn's Frog curse could be a water elemental spell.

I'm just saying that it could be possible. One can't just say that the Zealians magic dissapeared because the Mammon Machine broke. Dalton, Zeal, Schala and Magus all retaining theres shows that theres other parts to it. And we all know that Zeal and Dalton for one relied on the machine, since they wanted it unleashed to get more of it.

The Zealian's magic DID dissapear when the Mammon Machine broke. The Zeal Royal Family is apparently just innate, though, so they're exceptions. Zeal and Dalton clearly didn't rely on the machine by your own earlier sentence. They just wanted to get more than their natural limits allowed.

And it's heavily assumed that Zeal and Schala and Dalton use shadow magic. I mean, come on, no one ever saw Crono and Marle and Lucca ever fly or transform things into frogs etc.

Again, who says Crono and co know every spell there is to know of their respective elements? Otherwise magic is seriously limited, don't you think? Don't see how they'd make a floating continent or a time machine otherwise. I mean, come on. By that logic, Every act of magic we see in the game would be Shadow based, and that's frickin' stupid.

Meh, I'm willing to go for the Zealian thing. Maybe the transforming spell and flying etc is only accecible in combination of all 4 innates, so only a person who can do all 4 can use it. Anyway, It's kind of flawed in a way. Since Janus would have had to have learned his magic later, so unless all Zealians learn it naturally (that's why they're enlightened), I don't see where he really would have learned all 4 from. Especially Shadow since no mystic probably knows how to use it. Meh.

[Chrono'99]

You're contradicting yourself Zaper. According to you, Mystics don't know Shadow magic? Yet also according to you, levitation and transformation spells are Shadow magic... So how do explain that many Mystics can levitate, and that Naga-Ettes, Yakra, some Mystics in Magus's Castle, the Juggler called "Flea?" and the real Flea can all transform into humans or bats?

[DBoruta]

So how do explain that many Mystics can levitate, and that Naga-Ettes, Yakra, some Mystics in Magus's Castle, the Juggler called "Flea?" and the real Flea can all transform into humans or bats?

I was always under the impression that the omnicrones, decedents, shadows,  and sorcerers that looked like humans simply looked that way because of illusory magic instead of actual transformation.  As far as Flea's ability to either travel as a bat or appear to be a bat, who knows.

Spekkio and Shadow magic

Just because Spekkio never taught shadow magic to any party member in Chrono Trigger doesn't mean he didn't have the ability to teach it.  There was only one eligible, and he already had it - Magus.  Remember, Spekkio does use shadow magic in his highest two forms.  This indicates he has at the very least the ability to wield it, and if he has the ability to wield all four magics, why couldn't he teach all four?  

As far as the types of magic goes, it's hazy as to if shadow is the strongest, but if we look at the double techs and triple techs, we see that any combination of two magics that isn't shadow leads to being a shadow attack (yes, this includes heaven, its counter-type - Final Kick is a shadow attack).  This leaves a mystery, however, as one would think that heaven, its counter-type, should be equally as strong.

[Mystik3eb]

No proof of that. We're only limited by the battle system. We saw that Crono/Frog/Marle and Lucca had a hard time vs him. Now if those 3 had a hard time beating him, then that shows something. And if 3 can beat Spekkio, then that shows something too. Meh. Spekkio is over rated.

Magus is overrated.

In any case, Frog can defeat Magus by himself, but Frog can't defeat Spekkio by himself...unless he's lvl 99...maybe. It's hard for three of them to defeat Spekkio. Spekkio is damn strong. I believe his saying "you could probably teach ME a thing or two" was just his way of saying how strong/experienced/both Magus was with magic. Cuz seriously, Magus would not be able to beat Spekkio own his own.

I also don't see any reason to believe Shadow is the strongest, just different. They're all equal but different. It's their combinations that become super powerful.

[Zaperking]

You're contradicting yourself Zaper. According to you, Mystics don't know Shadow magic? Yet also according to you, levitation and transformation spells are Shadow magic... So how do explain that many Mystics can levitate, and that Naga-Ettes, Yakra, some Mystics in Magus's Castle, the Juggler called "Flea?" and the real Flea can all transform into humans or bats?

I really want to read the japanese retranslation. Since there was a quote in the game that said that Magus' magic was "arcane" and that it was stronger than the monsters. If Arcane is also a type of magic (could explain flying, transforming etc) then it can explain it. Maybe even Sneffs power to transform people into cats is Arcane, if the berry caused the ability.

Anyway, It was just an idea.

[GrayLensman]

A woman in San Dorino stated this:

[Woman]
   I heard Magus knows arcane magic
   which the monsters can't match.

I don't think that woman was an authoritative source on the nature of magic.  However, this probably suggests that Magus was a better magician than any of the Mystics, which was true.

[CyberSarkany]

I think it doesn't matter who can beat who...Frog can beat Magus, if you play him properly. Magus can beat Frog, if you play him the right way. Both can beat Spekkio Nu, if played properly(they just need to survive flare, because luminaire can be nullified with white mail, and dark matter is a nearly never casted spell).

[AuraTwilight]

Even assuming Magus' magic is "arcane" That can be attributed to the fact that his magical powers date back to 12,000 BC.

Known or understood by only a few

The definition of Arcane. I think Zealian Magic qualifies.