2006-10-04 Chrono Trigger Retranslation

[Mlata]

oh.... I just found out some guys are already working on it...


I'm happy now 

[ZeaLitY]

If you mean DS and Suzaku, they're doing their own retranslation. They've demonstrated that they have little regard for canon, so I'd like to see someone get ours out in a playable patch to prevent the bastardization of the original Chrono Trigger.

[Sora]

If you mean DS and Suzaku, they're doing their own retranslation. They've demonstrated that they have little regard for canon, so I'd like to see someone get ours out in a playable patch to prevent the bastardization of the original Chrono Trigger.

how have they shown that?

[ZeaLitY]

They were, at one time, willing to inject new lines into the game to try and preserve the "Kaeru" Japanese frog / shapeshifting pun. They changed a few days ago due to community pressure. For everything else, read:

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,2895.0.html

KWhazit retranslated specifically to produce a literal, true version of Chrono Trigger, as if we could all suddenly speak Japanese. He aimed to surgically, scientifically render the lines as they appeared originally as to allow a clear understanding of the canon without a middle-man's intervention.

Other retranslations rarely are held up to such ideals. Retranslators are often too eager to insert jokes, cuteness, extra canon, extreme profanity, or personal touches into the games they handle. KWhazit's product my sound Engrishy or clunky, but that's because it's Japanese in English. It lets you look exactly at what Japanese fans saw. I'm not discrediting him as a translator or anything, because he does other stuff without this very specific aim and it sounds fine in English. But we'd never change the "Engrish" of the CT retranslation because we were interested in the get-go in the original Chrono Trigger and canon.

Any other retranslation, aside from correcting a couple extreme inside puns KWhazit couldn't decipher, will only deviate from this standard. The Compendium was first and foremost an analysis of the series and its canon to produce a clear understanding of the plots and internal logic of the games. If their team is willing to make up lines or otherwise render them how they see it, the result will be different from the original. It may be more colloquially and idiomatically English, but it won't be the Japanese Chrono Trigger.

[Sora]

They were, at one time, willing to inject new lines into the game to try and preserve the "Kaeru" Japanese frog / shapeshifting pun. They changed a few days ago due to community pressure. For everything else, read:

http://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,2895.0.html

KWhazit retranslated specifically to produce a literal, true version of Chrono Trigger, as if we could all suddenly speak Japanese. He aimed to surgically, scientifically render the lines as they appeared originally as to allow a clear understanding of the canon without a middle-man's intervention.

Other retranslations rarely are held up to such ideals. Retranslators are often too eager to insert jokes, cuteness, extra canon, extreme profanity, or personal touches into the games they handle. KWhazit's product my sound Engrishy or clunky, but that's because it's Japanese in English. It lets you look exactly at what Japanese fans saw. I'm not discrediting him as a translator or anything, because he does other stuff without this very specific aim and it sounds fine in English. But we'd never change the "Engrish" of the CT retranslation because we were interested in the get-go in the original Chrono Trigger and canon.

Any other retranslation, aside from correcting a couple extreme inside puns KWhazit couldn't decipher, will only deviate from this standard. The Compendium was first and foremost an analysis of the series and its canon to produce a clear understanding of the plots and internal logic of the games. If their team is willing to make up lines or otherwise render them how they see it, the result will be different from the original. It may be more colloquially and idiomatically English, but it won't be the Japanese Chrono Trigger.

this doesnt seem as ass rapingly bad as you make it sound. like for one thing they want to know whether they should change the name to Frog or Keasu (of however its spelled).
theres no english word that means both Frog and to change, so if they leave it as frog than it DOES lose some of its orgional Japanese.

also, some items are called Katanas, so should they translate that to Sword? or leave it as Katana?
fact is Chrono Trigger cant exist 100% in english no matter what, the best way to get the closest thing to it is to use Japanese in it too, like Refering to Lavos as Lavos-Sama in Zeal, Japanese call God Kami-Sama, so it means they were calling Lavos God, but in English thats just lost unless you change it to God Lavos, but thats changing and injecting.

[ZeaLitY]

We DO call him Lavos-sama. -sama is easily preserved if someone just learns what it means. Kaeru doesn't work.

But this is why we have footnotes and annotations.

If you actually read the script, there are many footnotes and references talking about the lines or changes from the North American version. No, these can't be put in a playable patch, but by god if someone cares about Chrono Trigger enough to play a retranslated version, then he or she can come to the Chrono Compendium and just read a collection of notes.

Better to lose a little meaning and reference it in an annotation than to completely rewrite the canon of the game by modifying Frog's origin.

[Sora]

rewrite the canon of the game by modifying Frog's origin.

what do you mean? i never seen this in that topic.

[ZeaLitY]

Did you read all 27 pages?

[Sora]

Did you read all 27 pages?

hell no, i got to like page 9 lol.

[Mlata]

yes, I meant DS and Sasukes' project. Yesterday I tried to get as much information as I could, and although I didn't read through all pages on the site I still rememerded what I read about the intention of DS/Sasukes project on another page earlier. I thing they're trying to go for the golden path somehow. I myself now would actually prefer not to have a too literal translation, as I think it would distance people too much in an unneccesary way. Sake for example changed to just alcohol (beer or something else) would have the same effect. Whereas Katana, for example, should stay that way as it is internationally more used, in comics, movies, games and stuff, and has slight lost more off that very specific cultural reference of sake. Sake is an everyday product, that still is used FREAKIN often buy... well, mostly japanese. A katana isn't an everyday product, so the DIRECT refence to this historical weapon as such, even for japanese people, is gone, that's why it think the chance of international english speaking & english native speaking people having a weired aftertaste about it is much lower.
I think the compendium retranslation is a fantastic piece of fan effort, but would be even greater if it joined forces with some slight changes, as being attempted by Ds and Sasuke (i hope i got this right), to get the level of "heavy" directy-to-only-the japanese culture refering parts and words fixed (every extreme IMO isn't good), to finaly have the best chrono translation, not necessasrily the most literal. There can still be a "most literal", though (in another rom).
Well... now I suddenly think the lost 50% of Ted W.'s translation would be the ultimate translation. I think he just did a tremendous job with the fuckin limited space he had. What a guy....
DAMN, if only the other 50% were available some how on the net... (hey, now don't hate me for this but i JUST HAVE TO ask).... Isn't there a chance that the 50 % are still existing somehow (now I'm getting crazy) in one of Ted W's archives or something, because he DID do the 100%, didn't he, but only was forced to use 50 cuz in the end. Does anybody know how to contact Ted W. Just imagine there would be a way to have his 100% script.... Awesome shit!...

   

[V_Translanka]

I think Frog should be Kaeru, I mean, everyone who's going to play it already knows that his original NA name was Frog anyways, so why not put in a little of that Japanese preservation so that the irony of Glenn's transformation is really there...though, I suppose mostly everyone who's going to play it know about the name meaning both Frog and to change and the fact that Kaeru meaning those things will mostly only be known to people who already know that that's Frog's name in the Japanese version...but whatever...do the defaults matter?

As for Katanas...It shouldn't be Katana because not all of Cronos swords ARE Katanas...

Also, as far as I remember (from various anime & manga), the -sama suffix is a term used to express great respect...I think...

Ah, well, I Googled it and this is what I came up with...

Nevertheless, "sama" is used for Shinto gods ("kami-sama"). But as there are millions of them, they do not necessarily deserve the same respect or fear as the single and omnipotent Judeo-Christo-Islamic god.

So it IS used for respect of a God, and the original use uses it for Gods that are numerous...perhaps the Zealians knew there were other Lavos in the cosmos?

[ZeaLitY]

It can be used on any singular or plural quantity of human beings or objects to signify respect.