Multiple Dimension Existence

[ZeaLitY]

The limitation of the DBT per dimensions or directly branched dimensions is evidence by the fact that otherwise, infinite Lavoses and Schalas would be sent to the Darkness Beyond Time in conditions favorable for forming Time Devourers, meaning an infinite number would exist, and that eras from the Chrono series world float by in transparent spheres while one is at the DBT.

Lastly, dimensions simply cannot be transcended; under the word 'universe' they are the highest categories, universes in themselves which cannot be crossed or visited save by a Missing Piece responsible for the branching of a dimension off another or by an Entity/planet (the latter falls under the Time Crash, which itself is a total enigma). I believe that this effectively limits Belthasar's statement that the Time Devourer will consume all space-time; in all likelihood, it can only consume what exists in its own dimension and universe, as it seemingly has no way to access other dimensions. Additionally, it would be consuming an infinite amount if it were to devourer every dimension.

[Faulce]

But wait, isn't that message you hear in Chronopolis involving Kid talking to Serge and I think Magil (sp) and saying that Lynx had better say his prayers etc.  occuring in another dimension?  If so, wouldnt being able to hear that message imply a connection to other dimensions?

Heh, I think that the battle with the TD would have been a lot cooler if in the background you could see other Serge and Co. parties fighting other TD. and during the battle could see it being defeated and such. It would look like a war with so many elements being used at once.

[Swordmaster]

I think we should see how the TD can devour a Time Line.We can see several times floating in the DBT in some form of energy and perhaps thoses are the one it can devour, but it would to need to manipulate time lines(the History) to obtain the discard ones.To devour all space-time would need manipulate the universe in the very begin.

[Faulce]

Hmm, if TD wants to devour all space-time continua, wouldnt it eventually devour the DBT and thus itself?  DBT isn't exempt from that correct?  sheesh how nihilistic..somebody had a bad day...

[V_Translanka]

I think the DBT is exempt, as the DoT devours time, and the DBT is...well...BEYOND time...

Theory (if it hasn't been said): The DBT is exempt, yes, from a large manner of things. This includes multiple timelines within the DBT. If the DoT were to be born, then all existence on all timelines would cease (or whatever the hell's supposed to happen). Since it is stopped (either KOed or CCed) within said DBT, no such thing happens on any timeline.

[Leebot]

But wait, isn't that message you hear in Chronopolis involving Kid talking to Serge and I think Magil (sp) and saying that Lynx had better say his prayers etc.  occuring in another dimension?  If so, wouldnt being able to hear that message imply a connection to other dimensions?

It's possible that other dimensions can be viewed, but not altered.

[Epsilon]

There is one example where niether the Missing Piece theorem (which states that Serge can only cross dimsneions at Opassa Beach, bcauase the dimensions split there) nor the Entity can explain: In the Home Dead Sea Ruins, there are "Fate Distortions" that allow Serge and Party to cross the dimensions to go to Another Sea of Eden. Of course, this could be explained as some sort of Time Crash effect....

[ZeaLitY]

Questions raised:

1. Is the Darkness Beyond Time omnidimensional or unidimensional?

~

1. Darkness Beyond Time

Possibilities:

A) Belthasar was exaggerating slightly, or we're misinterpreting him; the Time Devourer can only devour its own dimension, and the Darkness Beyond Time is omnidimensional, serving as receptacle for all timelines in all dimensions..

B) Belthasar was exaggerating slightly, or we're misinterpreting him; the Time Devourer can only devour its own dimension, and the Darkness Beyond Time is unidimensional, serving as receptacle for all timelines from its home dimension.

2) The DBT is the same for all dimensions, and the TD only exists once within it. Serge defeated the one TD, so that's that.

3) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist. Through some quirk of fate/probability, there is a 100% chance that if the TD is created, it will be destroyed.

4) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist. One of them will eventually (along its own perpendicular time axis) devour everything. However, the timelines we see are not yet at that "time," and will exist until that "time." Since some form of "time" must flow for the TD, it can only devour timelines from a certain "time" on. We're screwed, but we'll never know it.

5) The DBT is unique to each dimension, and multiple TD's exist. One succeeded in devouring all of reality. This game is just what would have happened if it hadn't.

~

Discussion

That is mostly correct; however, probability negates that and suggests that there is only one Darkness Beyond Time per dimension or dimensions that exist as branches of one another. Surely, if infinite dimensions exist, and one Time Devourer who could destroy them all could come about, would not the universe already be destroyed? That is why I believe there is one DBT per dimension or dimensional branch, and that timelines change and exist within a parent dimension. Crono never split the dimensions of the Keystone, or Another dimension, but simply rewrote time. Only the act of saving Serge somehow caused the dimensions to split, whereas the Reptite Dimension and Radical Dreamers Dimension are separate possibilities completely which do not branch directly from the others as Home World does from Another.

This is why I believe the word 'dimension' in the Chrono series should be thought of as representing moreso tangible universes than just possibilities. "All space-time" is limited to one dimension.

The limitation of the DBT per dimensions or directly branched dimensions is evidence by the fact that otherwise, infinite Lavoses and Schalas would be sent to the Darkness Beyond Time in conditions favorable for forming Time Devourers, meaning an infinite number would exist, and that eras from the Chrono series world float by in transparent spheres while one is at the DBT.

Lastly, dimensions simply cannot be transcended; under the word 'universe' they are the highest categories, universes in themselves which cannot be crossed or visited save by a Missing Piece responsible for the branching of a dimension off another or by an Entity/planet (the latter falls under the Time Crash, which itself is a total enigma). I believe that this effectively limits Belthasar's statement that the Time Devourer will consume all space-time; in all likelihood, it can only consume what exists in its own dimension and universe, as it seemingly has no way to access other dimensions. Additionally, it would be consuming an infinite amount if it were to devourer every dimension.

But wait, isn't that message you hear in Chronopolis involving Kid talking to Serge and I think Magil (sp) and saying that Lynx had better say his prayers etc. occuring in another dimension? If so, wouldnt being able to hear that message imply a connection to other dimensions?

Heh, I think that the battle with the TD would have been a lot cooler if in the background you could see other Serge and Co. parties fighting other TD. and during the battle could see it being defeated and such. It would look like a war with so many elements being used at once.

[DBoruta]

The Darkness Beyond Time is omnidimensional, and Belthasar's conclusions about the Time Devourer are correct.  Using the model for Time Error that I've developed (cartesian coordinate system, 5 axes, where the 4-D axis is "normal time" in each dimension and the 5-D axis is "new time measurement"), what we can see is that all timelines in one dimension can be measured within this 5-D model.  Now, what if we want to measure multiple dimensional movement?  We have to add another axis, where a completely different kind of "time" is measured out.  Through this, we can see multi-dimensional movement like that which occurred in Chrono Cross.  

Now, how does the DBT fit into this?  Well, the DBT is a place where timelines that are erased from existence go, which implies that entire dimensions get sent to this vortex.  Lavos and Schala arrived at the DBT unnaturally from one and only one dimension, and Lavos began to merge with her there on an axis of measurement that is at least outside of 4-D time.  It is from this junction point that the Time Devourer will be able to access and consume every space-time point conceivable.  

The more I'm thinking about the DBT, the more it appears to be similar to the End of Time.  The End of Time is a 5-D junction where all 4-D time meets.  As such, the DBT could be a junction where all dimensions meet.    I'm not 100% positive about this, but it would make sense, as there would need to be some junction for the Time Devourer to use to consume all space-time.

[Sentenal]

I personally believe that there is only one DBT, and therefore only one TD.  This stems from by belief that there are not infinate dimensions.  The Lavos and Schala who make up the Time Devourer would from the Timeline prior to Home's creation, more or less (allow for the Time Bastard).  So therefore only one TD.  I'll take Belthasar's words at face value.

[Radical_Dreamer]

I think that the DBT is like the End of Time. There is one DBT for all dimensions, just as there is one End of Time for all time periods.

[Zaperking]

Yeah, I think that there is only one DBT, but maybe there is more than one EoT. The EoT that we see only corrisponded with that dimension.

[Mystik3eb]

Fitting my theory, there is only one DBT, so there's only one TD.

[ZeaLitY]

Think about the probability. There is a chance of infinity that a Time Devourer will form and destroy all universes. There is another chance of infinity that someone will stop him. Who wins? Why can Serge only automatically go back to his home dimension from the Darkness Beyond Time? How does one Darkness Beyond Time serve as wastebasket for an infinite amount of discarded timelines? These are exceedingly troublesome. The only way this can be remedied is if there is only a finite, reasonable number of dimensions. Otherwise, it would seem too easy for a Time Devourer to form -- and that's that for reality.

[DBoruta]

There is neither a chance of infinity that a Time Devourer will form, nor is there a chance of infinity that there will be someone who will stop said Time Devourer.   You're thinking that Lavos and Schala arrived at the DBT naturally, when that's not the case at all.  What happened there was an anomaly.  

As for your being troubled about the infinite amount of dimensions/timelines, we don't know for sure if there is a finite amount or not.  We know about only a handfull, so that's why I corrected you in the Principles of Time and Dimensional Travel thread.  There's a possibility that a countless amount of dimensions could exist, but we don't know for sure about any dimensions besides the ones revealed to us in Chrono Cross.  

Either way, the DBT is a weird place - it's a vortex where discarded timelines end up and it appears we're pretty confident it's also a junction point to other dimensions.  Really, it's like the place travels back toward nothingness.  Using a little bit of Taoist philosophy we could think of it as a place where existence comes full circle and starts from and goes back to nothingness.