Mystic Eyes in Chrono Trigger

[V_Translanka]

You also have to take into account the fact that it was a new character designer on CC...and that it was still in the conceptual stages. But anyways, maybe there was just no reason for him to switch his appearance back. I mean, he's not really "Janus" anymore...so maybe he just shed himself from that persona completely by not looking anything like it...*shrugs*...

[Dark Serge]

cursed Glenn terribly

They were out to KILL Magus. Magus just wanted revenge on Lavos. Who's the real evil? Save Guardia or save the world? Magus clearly could have just killed Glenn. He got off light. 'All's fair in love & war' as they say...

Yeah and Magus really cared about the world, too. Honestly, he doesn't give a shit about anyone else on the world, he only wanted to avenge Schala, and that's all that's on his mind. He goes over necks to achieve it, and starts a whole war killing dozens of people.

Also, I'd rather die then to put up with being a frog for the rest of my life...

[V_Translanka]

Yeah, but even if his reasons for wanting Lavos weren't pure, that doesn't change the fact that the cause was certainly just & secondarily would help the world, whether his intentions were such or not.

I'm pretty sure Magus didn't start the war...Possible that he advanced it by helping the Mystics...but the way I see it, he probably just joined the side that looked like it was going to win. Or else growing up w/them just made it easier for him to join them.

I'd rather turn someone into a frog (actually quite lenient to what I'd do, personally) than have them fuck over my quest to get revenge on whoever I thought killed her.

[Dark Serge]

The cause wasn't just, like I said. Maybe the end result would have been, but anyway, there's no way he could have beat Lavos, and with a bit of thinking, he could have known that too. There was never a chance he could destroy Lavos, thus the entire war was for nothing.

And it is said multiple times "In 600 A.D. Magus waged war on the humans." So yes, he did start the war.

[maggiekarp]

Magus was happened upon by Ozzie, and because he had innate magical abilities (we know he's got chops, but he suppressed them because he saw what that sort of power did to his mama, sis, and entire country), he was trained to be a powerful Mystic warrior. Somewhere along the way, he decided that he would dedicate all his life to the pursuit of power for the sake of summoning and defeating Lavos. For his own vengeance. And when you consider he probably came up with this grand scheme when he was, what, 8-years-old or so, it's not too crazy to believe he wouldn't change his whole life on a whim. Death is the only other option, and really, he seems okay with that.

All alone in the darkness, forced to do nasty things to survive, desperate for that one impossible goal, it's natural to assume he'd get a little... "different" in his way of thinking. At least to save himself from going completely 'nanners.  Remember what Ayla said, "strange, but not bad".

Cyrus and Glenn weren't valiant warriors with valuable lives in his eyes. They were blockades, trash in the way. So he offed Cyrus and turned Glenn into a frog as Ozzie requested, not out of any sadistic desire to see him squirm (though he could have been a teenager at the time, and you know how they can be), but as a symbol of human disdain so he could gather more Mystic support.


...But I'm getting way too speculative and fanfic-y here, aren't I?

[V_Translanka]

The cause was revenge for a ruined life...I'd call Magus' intentions against Lavos just. Sure, the way he went about it was selfish, but if he's going to be changing something as fundamental as destroying Lavos, and w/o any prior knowledge to TTI (much less something like Time Bastard), I think it's possible that he can see his actions in the Medieval era as being, more or less, inconsequential.

I think the years of Magic training, along w/a refined sense of hatred & vengeance possibly clouded Magus' judgment on whether or not he could have actually defeated Lavos. Or, it's possible to see it as not mattering if he actually defeats Lavos, but that he tries something...unlike the coward Frog who just hid in his hole in the ground after getting his ass handed to him & Cyrus.

And it is said multiple times "In 600 A.D. Magus waged war on the humans." So yes, he did start the war.

Just because you wage a war that doesn't mean you start the war. The US is waging war in Iraq right now, but did they start the warring going on there?...well...maybe that's not such a good example...but you get the point *heh heh* And besides, most of said sources were humans, so of course Magus was painted in a bad light in their histories...

[Radical_Dreamer]

And it is said multiple times "In 600 A.D. Magus waged war on the humans." So yes, he did start the war.

Just because you wage a war that doesn't mean you start the war. The US is waging war in Iraq right now, but did they start the warring going on there?...well...maybe that's not such a good example...but you get the point *heh heh* And besides, most of said sources were humans, so of course Magus was painted in a bad light in their histories...

The U.S. didn't start WWII, but waged it. Perhaps that would be a better analogy.

Four hundred years after a war between the Mystics and the humans, is it any surprise that the short version the average human gives is to place blame on the then leader of the Mystics? No way the average person in 1000AD would know that Magus was actually the prince of Zeal who had been thrown through time, nor would they have any notion about his desire for revengen on Lavos, as they'd have no knowledge of either Zeal or Lavos.

[maggiekarp]

Didn't most of the 1000AD Mystics refer to Magus as the creator of Lavos, but in 600AD they were all talking about a summoning?

[Dark Serge]

No, the Trigger team first thought Magus created Lavos. I don't think the Mystics even knew about Lavos, Magus probably hasn't even told them. If he had, I don't think the Mystics would have followed him, as then it would be clear that Magus was just using them.

A ruined life? How does losing your sister ruin your life? Sure, the guy had a rough time, but I've seen worse. There was absolutely no danger for him, he could've lived peacefully instead of trying to summon his own death and killing innocents in the process.

And yeah, coward frog? How would you feel if you just lost your closest friend and got turned into a frog at the age 0f 16/17? Ofcourse the guy is freaked out. And in the end he does challenge Magus (and kills him in my game scenario, but it's probably not canon).

And yeah, in Magus' eyes. That's the problem right there. In Magus eyes the world is a plaything he can use and manipulate for his own goals. Frankly I don't care much for the end result even if he would've killed Lavos. We're talking about his personality, and he's doing it for his own ego. Then he finally gets his ass handed to him Crono and crew, and a while later he challenges Lavos again. Really, how foolish is this guy? I wish Lavos would've killed him instead of Crono.

Magus has innocent blood on his hands, and being the prince of Zeal doesn't make up for that. It's not a very positive status either. Zeal was a kingdom full of egoistic, selfish, discriminating people. The only pure person in entire Zeal was probably Schala.

[V_Translanka]

Yeah, the Mystics talk about Magus creating/summoning Lavos because they thought that he was going to somehow use Lavos as a weapon against the humans in their war. Either he told them that or he let them assume that when he told them what he was planning...either way it comes to the same...

How would you feel if you just lost your closest friend and got turned into a frog at the age 0f 16/17?

You use this as an excuse for Glenn's cowardice, and yet the same thing happens to Janus and it's...

A ruined life? How does losing your sister ruin your life? Sure, the guy had a rough time, but I've seen worse.

Janus was fatherless, watched his mother go insane, was already ostracized within Zeal for not having Magical abilities (presumed a bastard because of this by one translation as I recall), his only friends were his big sister Schala and his little kitten, Alfador...and then Lavos goes and takes THAT little bit of happiness from him...along with all semblance of his regular life. And Janus was MUCH younger than Glenn when Cyrus died...though I don't know if I'd say Glenn was 16/17...but that's debatable as it's not confirmable either way in-game...

Magus is just a go-getter. He has goals and nothing will stop him from achieving them or at least attempting them. Also, I've always been one to say that he tries to use the Red Knife/newly formed Masamune against Lavos (it shows him use a red weapon, anyways), thinking it would be a weakness...thus prompting him to say, "What? It didn't work?" when his blow against Lavos fails to cause it any undue distress. If his goal is the destruction of Lavos for taking away his world, is that really much different than Crono & Co.? They're just doing it for the future of the world being taken away where Magus is doing it for the past world that was taken away. If anything, he has MORE reason to go after Lavos as it affected him directly (let's have no Magus=teh Entity discussions though, shall we?).

Also, sure, Crono & Co., whom he was completely unprepared for having not had to deal with other humans capable of wielding Magic at all, defeated Magus 3-on-1,  and they had a better version of the Masamune, all while he was being controlled by the CPU. In a true 1-on-1 with Magus & Frog, the green guy doesn't have much of an actual chance. Water Magic Barrier+Dark Matter=1 dead Frog. Maybe he'd get lucky if he got a Frog Squash in before he bit it...but w/e...doubtful...especially since Frog didn't/wouldn't know that ability at that time.

Do we know that Magus has killed innocents? MAYBE indirectly, but...ARE there even innocents in WAR? Again, on translation, I recall, suggests that it was the HUMANS who were, in fact, originally encroaching on Mystic territory (which would certainly explain what Ozzie was doing in the mountains behind Truce...and why Mystics are STILL there in 600AD)...

The only pure person in entire Zeal was probably Schala.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say 'pure' here...but what about the Gurus? Plus, Janus was just a KID...cut him some slack...how would you turn out w/a schizo mother & no dad? Not to mention everyone was being influenced by the power of Lavos, emanating from the Mammon Machine...

[Dark Serge]

At least we agree on one thing: Magus' life, and other people's lives, made them the people they are. I still think Magus is selfish, as he turned on the Mystics too, but you're right, you can hardly blame the guy.

[maggiekarp]

Who's to say Frog and the rest of the Chrono crew didn't kill innocent Mystics? That's something that's always disturbed me a little bit about the games, the Mystics all have lines and personalities, and the ones in 1000AD live in houses and run businesses just like people (even before you kill Ozzie), but they have no qualms killing them in battle or sneaking up on them. There's so much about Mystic culture that's alluded to, but never outright stated.

...then again, Magus used them, so that's not really helping my argument. I'll agree that Magus isn't exactly the best video game role-model, but it isn't as black-and-white as you're trying to make it, DS.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Magus is totally selfish.  I felt that he only USED the Mystics to see the eventual downfall of Lavos.  Everyone in his life after the Ocean Palace Disaster were only there because they had something to give or do for him...

...at least that's how I see it!

[V_Translanka]

Yeah, it's kind of difficult to say one way or the other because there's so much of his life, apparently growing up w/the Mystics that we just don't say...and everything else is just kinda hearsay from people that never really met him...All we know for true is what he tells us...and that he doesn't like surprises! lol