Need confirmation about the Dragonian dimension...

[Chrono'99]

Is it actually stated somewhere in the game why the Reptites survived in this dimension? We take for granted that it is because Lavos didn't fall, but is this really stated somewhere?

This question is important, because this could have some repercussions on... Leah's purpose, if you see where I'm getting at.

[ZeaLitY]

If there is, it's in the Chronopolis dialogue speculation about a world in which Lavos never fell. Other than that, I see what you're getting at. The planet took Leah out of...a dimension? To make the Reptites win by Ayla never living?

[DBoruta]

 
   65 million years ago, the
   Reptites who evolved from
   reptiles had developed their
   own unique civilization...
   This was long before the
   ancestors of humans, who
   evolved from primates, had
   developed their civilization.
   Excavations carried out on the
   central continent of Zenan have
   revealed that the Reptites
   already had advanced architectural
   skills in the prehistoric era.
   But the fall of Lavos to the
   planet, and the resulting
   Ice Age this brought about,
   rang the death knell for the
   Reptites and their civilization.
   After that the Reptites
   slowly disappeared from
   the stage of history.
   However, in the distant past
   humans could have been defeated
   in the contest of evolution,
   and the Reptites could have
   continued to develop...
   It is not unthinkable that
   such a time line could exist
   in other dimensions.
   Everything is purely a
   problem of possibilities,
   and the world is only
   stabilized by the viewpoint
   of the one who observes it.

It doesn't say anything about a timeline where Lavos never fell - it merely talks about a timeline where the Reptites eventually won out in the contest of evolution.  Although it is not stated directly, it is implied that a timeline could exist where the Reptites were allowed to win out in the contest of evolution because Lavos never fell and never caused an ice age.  It's not stated directly, but it is implied and perhaps strongly suggested (based on the emphasis of the ice age causing the Reptites to die out) that a timeline could exist where Lavos never fell. 
 

[Chrono'99]

I suppose that quote could be interpreted in many different ways. The phrase "contest of evolution" in particular is mysterious: is the fall of the alien Lavos considered part of this contest, or is it not because it's a corrupting influence from outside the planet's nature? If it's the latter, then perhaps Lavos still fell in the Dragonian dimension, but the Reptites still managed to wipe the humans out and "continued to develop" by stealing their shelters, caverns, etc.

Of course it might perhaps be simplier to consider the link between the Ige Age and Lavos. If Lavos hadn't fall, the Reptites would have survived. The big and recurrent issue is the cryptical aspect of what those Chronopolitan ghosts say... I wish they could have talked more precisely.

Well, I'm not sure I myself totally believe in my theory, but I think it's at least worth remembering, because it gives Leah an actual reason for being there in El Nido, a reason which doesn't create a plot-hole moreover. If Leah were Ayla's mother from the Keystone dimension, this would bring the age-old Guardia paradox from CT all the way to CC (no Leah in Prehistory = no Ayla, no Guardia line). If this Leah is from the Dragonian dimension instead, everything is coherent: Leah is removed, thus Ayla is not born, the Reptites win the fight for life, and in the far future Dinopolis is created.

Thematically, this is also very interesting seeing that it ironically puts the Planet on the same level as all other "living" beings struggling for survival. The planet would have purposely screwed the Dragonian dimension in order to survive in the Keystone one.

   In order to survive,
   all living things in this world

   fight desperately and
   devour those they defeat...

   Must one kill other living
   things in order to survive?
   
   Must one destroy another world
   in order to allow one's own
   world to continue?

[Radical_Dreamer]

The whole of Chrono Trigger was the planet's struggle for survival against Lavos. In a sense, Chrono Cross was partly Lavos' struggle for survival against the forces of the Entity.

[Zaperking]

The entity and the planet suck, end of story.
That's like the only thing I hate the most. By how it was a let down with not going into detail enough about the Reptite dimension, how the planet itself is just a mother fu*ker like Lavos and ofcourse - Info on Schala.

[ZeaLitY]

That was a stupid way to end this topic for half a year. The "Reptite Dimension Key Theory" is the best one yet in this round of analysis review.

[Chrono'99]

I've just realized there's one important problem with this theory, a problem which also appears for most other theories concerning Leah: Gaea's Navel existed in El Nido as early as in the Post-Time Crash era (Polis War circa 12,000 B.C.), yet Leah seems to have appeared only some time before Serge meets her in 1020 A.D.!

The Planet would have teleported a patch of land containing Leah from another dimension, but would then have proceeded to a second warp: time-warping Leah from 12,000 B.C. to Serge's era, apparently only in Home World (Leah being 6 years old, she couldn't have been time-warped to a year before the 1010 A.D. dimensional split).

This makes the Planet appear really caring and friendly to Serge's cause... But this also begs the question of why she would remove a whole patch of land from another dimension and effect two space-time warps, instead of removing just Leah and effect a unique warp.

[Radox Redux]

But if this theory is true, then that would mean that Ayla (and by proxy Leah) was the deciding factor in the dimentional split. Both CT and CC say that the Reptites dying out was a direct result of Lavos and the consequential ice age. Saying that Leah is the Dragonian Dimention 'key' raises more questions than it solves IMHO. I see no reason why removing Leah from the timeline would cause a dimentional split.

The only way, I can see it working is if the Reptite defeat at the Tyran Lair stopped the Reptites from making a retreat, but this is  tenious at the best, especially once you concider the Pre-Crono timeline. I doubt Ayla would've been able to storm the Tyran Lair on her own. It's a shame that we don't know what happened in the original timeline during the Pre-historic era. But until something comes along to contradict it, I'm going with established canon; namely that the Reptites died out as a direct result of the Ice Age.

[Chrono'99]

I do believe Ayla would have stormed the Tyran Lair on her own. Remember, when you track her around in Prehistory after the Magus Castle time warp, you see her speak to the Laruba Chief alone; she then goes to the Dactyl's Nest by herself, and she summons a Dactyl by herself. It's only then, at the top of the Nest, that Crono and a party member joins her.

Additionally, the reason Ayla wants to storm Tyran Lair in the first place is to rescue Kino and a bunch of Laruba villagers who had been captured. Kino is Marle's ancestor, so he had to survive the fall of the Red Star somehow. It's doubtful to think that he would have escaped Tyran Lair on his own. Ayla must have rescued him.

[DBoruta]

Except, what you are forgetting is that it could have been Crono & co.'s first intervention against the Reptites (infiltrating the Reptite Lair to get the Gate Key back) that might have caused the Reptites to strike out against the humans.  My thought on this is that if Crono & co. had never traveled back to the Prehistoric Era, Kino never would have been captured in the first place. 

[Thought]

Even if we assume that Ayla would still have reason to storm the Tyran lair sans Crono & Co, and even if we assume that she still would have actually done so sucessfully, there is no further reason to assume that she would have stayed there after the prisoners were rescued in order to defeat Azala.

Besides, if Ayla was the one to determine which species survived (and thus, the one to actually cause the dimensional split, assuming there was one), then why would her mother be the one to be brought into a different dimension? That would be like Serge's death spliting Home/Another World but his mother being the key.

Additionally, with Leah returning home at the end of Chrono Cross, that would imply that she would be negating the Dragonian dimension.

[maggiekarp]

I always took the Dragonian dimension to be the joke Reptite ending of CT made canon.


Well, whatever counts as canon in this series...

[TimeJammer81]

I always took the Dragonian dimension to be the joke Reptite ending of CT made canon.


Well, whatever counts as canon in this series...

I actually agree with that. Who's to say some of the multi-dimensions were created by each ending(hence each dimension had Crono defeating Lavos at different points of time, resulting in different outcomes, different alternate dimensions, and so on). I mean, they hinted that Radical Dreamers takes place in a different dimension. My theory is that it's the dimension where Crono isn't saved on Death's Peak. Perhaps THAT lead to something in the future where Chronopolis never existed, hence FATE never terraformed El Nido and everything occured in Gerzbuehl. Despite certain circumstances NOT occuring, some people are obviously born nonetheless. Viper is not born from descendants of Chronopolis...which settled El Nido, but was fated to exist despite this(just like in the Frog marrying Leene ending Marle is fated to exist, despite her ancestor NOT being King Gaurdia XXI, but Frog, or Doan's existance not being related to the horrible conditions of the year 2300 AD). Viper was not born in El Nido, but was born on the Zenan Mainland, and Viper Manor was build in Gerzbuehl. Lynx was fated to exist either way, EVEN if it wasn't FATE(which sounds strange).

So yeah, but it's just a personal theory of mine. Reptite ending was the begining of the Reptite Dimension. Reptites evolved into Dragonians and created their own "future". I think Reptite Crono and co exist in THAT world too(fated existances), despite not being human, and Marle not being a descendant of Ayla. And regarding the existance of Lavos, a personal theory is that the Reptites/Dragonians discovered their own way of defeating Lavos. Perhaps they used nature and the planet's own powers to pinpoint Lavos and confront it?

Maybe I'm looking too much into this, but the whole "different time, different ending" aspect of CT was brilliant. The thought that different endings could result in different alternate dimensions is something I always thought was fitting of the series.

[MagilsugaM]

I always took the Dragonian dimension to be the joke Reptite ending of CT made canon.


Well, whatever counts as canon in this series...

I actually agree with that. Who's to say some of the multi-dimensions were created by each ending(hence each dimension had Crono defeating Lavos at different points of time, resulting in different outcomes, different alternate dimensions, and so on). I mean, they hinted that Radical Dreamers takes place in a different dimension. My theory is that it's the dimension where Crono isn't saved on Death's Peak. Perhaps THAT lead to something in the future where Chronopolis never existed, hence FATE never terraformed El Nido and everything occured in Gerzbuehl. Despite certain circumstances NOT occuring, some people are obviously born nonetheless. Viper is not born from descendants of Chronopolis...which settled El Nido, but was fated to exist despite this(just like in the Frog marrying Leene ending Marle is fated to exist, despite her ancestor NOT being King Gaurdia XXI, but Frog, or Doan's existance not being related to the horrible conditions of the year 2300 AD). Viper was not born in El Nido, but was born on the Zenan Mainland, and Viper Manor was build in Gerzbuehl. Lynx was fated to exist either way, EVEN if it wasn't FATE(which sounds strange).

So yeah, but it's just a personal theory of mine. Reptite ending was the begining of the Reptite Dimension. Reptites evolved into Dragonians and created their own "future". I think Reptite Crono and co exist in THAT world too(fated existances), despite not being human, and Marle not being a descendant of Ayla. And regarding the existance of Lavos, a personal theory is that the Reptites/Dragonians discovered their own way of defeating Lavos. Perhaps they used nature and the planet's own powers to pinpoint Lavos and confront it?

Maybe I'm looking too much into this, but the whole "different time, different ending" aspect of CT was brilliant. The thought that different endings could result in different alternate dimensions is something I always thought was fitting of the series.

I agree...