Poll

What is your view?

Both meat and vegetables are needed, so I'm an omnivore
14 (73.7%)
Vegetarianism FTW
0 (0%)
Anything animal related is disgusting. Vegan.
0 (0%)
PLANTS!? CARNIVORUM FOR ME-ETH!
2 (10.5%)
Everything has life! Rocks for me.
2 (10.5%)
Meh
1 (5.3%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?  (Read 5555 times)

Burning Zeppelin

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Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« on: November 29, 2006, 03:29:05 am »
I was having a forum discussion with a vegan on the unofficial school message board. It went from rights of animals to not be tortured to whether or not people should eat meat or not. Points brought up are as followed.

Modification of Animals: Cows are milked until three months before birth, leaving their bones brittle and calcium deprived. Also, some cows are genetically modified so that they can produce up to 40% more milk, with their udders often swollen to 10 times their original size. And because of their small hips caused by lack of calcium, all their births must be performed with cesarians, with no anaethesia.

Intelligence of Animals: Animals are smart too. Animals know if they are locked up or not, and therefore many farmers break off some of their body parts to stop the stress symptons.

Torture of Animals: The usual. Animals are beaten, kept in small cages, stuff like that. And it has been almost certainly prove that animals can feel pain.

But the most important point brought up is that there is no need to eat animals, and that really we are meant to be herbivores..



That image basically explains the whole thing. Of course, even if we weren't meant to eat meat before, our body has evolved into needing the protein and vitamins present in meat. Of course, vegetarians counter this with saying that things that you are present in meat are also present in milk, eggs and walnuts. Vegans have it a lot harder though, because even if the American Dietic Association says that vegetarianism is a healthy way of living and can even reduce diseases, they said nothing about veganism.

So what are your thoughts on this arguments? Any vegos/vegans out there?

Daniel Krispin

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 05:14:42 am »
I still think being an omnivore is healthiest. That said, I don't eat too much meat, and that which I do is primarially chicken. Some pork. Rarely beef. I suppose if I HAD to go vegetarian, I'd just eat lentil salad and whole grain bread all that time. That'd work. The thing is, it's way harder, costlier, and just inefficiant to 'grow' meat. As such, it's prudent, even if one is an omnivore (like me) to limit it.

cupn00dles

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 08:01:56 am »
I sincerely see no moral at all involved in the act of feeding.

Hell, humanity shamelessly fucks things up to every species on earth (including humanity itself), that it actually seems a complete foolishness for one to be worrying about such thing as what one gets fed of.

Take off your clothes, go live in the jungle and stay there. Otherwise you're a fucking hypocrite. (By you I mean people who morally question the act of eating whatever)

CyberSarkany

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 11:17:12 am »
Omnivore here, because IMO the Body needs both, plants and meat stuff. Oh, and it tastes both good if made well.

Yet I am against any kind of torturing, mass holding or whatever is done to the animals just for more profitable purpose. I don't say stop eating them, they should just be treated well. But what human does care about if the meat he eats was treated well or not? Some do, and even pay for it, yet most just don't.

Mixmasta_K

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2006, 12:21:17 pm »
I'm a major meat-eater, and I know for a fact that vegos/vegans are not getting the full ammount of amino acids they need in their diets. There are a few certain types found in tofu, nuts, etc. but meat has much more that need to be grown inside a living animal, not a plant. Besides, if you buy smart (as in organic, free-range, etc), you'll still be doing the animals no harm.

Being a health freak myself, I can't help but laugh when a veggo eats starch and sugar based meals all day and complains about gaining weight. xD

grey_the_angel

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2006, 01:33:01 pm »
my thoughts: who the hell cares. you're made to eat meat, stop being a bitch.

sad part is, I've actually said that to a couple of vegan protester types.

grey_the_angel

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2006, 01:34:56 pm »
. Besides, if you buy smart (as in organic, free-range, etc), you'll still be doing the animals no harm.

outside the, ya know, complete and utter slaughter of the fucking animal.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2006, 04:33:03 pm »
Well, there are certain problems with certain meats, but before anyone even dares go into that for nutritional reasons, citizens need to stop eating junk food first or start exercising. You can eat as much junk food as you want (with...certain limits) as long as you burn it off, even. But meat's pretty down on the pecking order for food threats. Soda is probably at the top with mega-consumption of sugar and calories. If you want to be diabetic, drink soda regularly for most of your life and don't exercise. It will happen. I am not even kidding. So if you say "whoa, I might be in that demographic," then act. A third of all Americans born after 2000 will have diabetes unless lifestyle changes are made.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2006, 05:34:24 pm »
This isn't about soda, ZeaLitY...

Anyhow, with regard to the topic itself, I seriously doubt the veracity of that chart. I'd want to see some proof that: A) the chart's claims are true; and B) the chart is not selective in its facts so as only to present facts that support its argument. Human beings are well adapted for eating meat and reclaiming its nutritional value, and animal hunting outdates recorded history.

As for all of the pathetically defensive pro-meat people who have posted in this thread, they are guilty of a blatantly unintellectual approach to the discussion on grounds of having established their opinion prior to considering the facts. Their disregard for animals' rights and for human health both should be disregarded by the rest of us. They aren't saying anything that is necessarily truthful; they're just editorializing.

Next, Cup of Noodles, for his part, makes an interested if misguided claim: We're hypocrites to worry about eating meat when we're already screwing up everything. However, that argument is a logical fallacy and doesn't count, because whether or not we are messing things up elsewhere has no bearing on the wisdom of a particular, unrelated behavior. If eating meat were imprudent, we would not be wrong to stop doing it simply because we're still messing up the world in other ways. On the contrary, that would be a good move...if eating meat were imprudent.

Lastly, I would finish by saying that few if any of us in this thread are qualified to talk about the costs and benefits of a normalized level of meat consumption in the human diet with regards to human health. With regards to animal rights, perhaps a couple of us are aware of the magnitude of animal abuse that goes into the production of human meat, but only a couple.

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2006, 06:15:58 pm »
I too am against animal abuse, and I wish there was more regulation, but a lot of money from meat goes to the government apparently, and therefore farmers try to find the fastest way to make more money.

Many sites agree with the table...
http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/qa/qaphys.htm
http://www.vegetarianteen.com/questions/question34.shtml

And then there is this...
http://www.eatveg.com/argument.htm

But in counter attack mode...
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_087.html

Exodus

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2006, 09:06:03 pm »
This isn't about soda, ZeaLitY...

Regardless of whether or not this topic has anything to do with soda, it does take on a "health conscious" approach and as such it isn't so off-topic to mention the hazards of massive sugar consumption.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 09:22:17 pm »
But when do I get to contradict ZeaLitY, if not now? And if not now, when?!

=P

Burning Zeppelin

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2006, 03:44:10 am »
I can imagine Lord J sitting at home at night reading every single one of Zeality's posts trying to find a flaw, and for some reason, in that thought, there is a typewriter and a large roll of tape.

Snap out of it, this isn't about typewriters and rolls of tape!

V_Translanka

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2006, 10:44:47 pm »
Maddox's "Guiltless Grill? Is There Another Kind?" Article

But personally, I don't care. I have to eat meat because I can't afford to lose another source of food. I'm so skinny that I would certainly die were I to somehow restrict my already piss-poor diet.

I eat doom like magnum bullets.

Quote from: Dave
Pleased to meet you. Meat to please you.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2006, 03:26:18 am by V_Translanka »

Mixmasta_K

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Re: Meat, meat, a wonderful thing?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2006, 09:30:28 pm »
. Besides, if you buy smart (as in organic, free-range, etc), you'll still be doing the animals no harm.

outside the, ya know, complete and utter slaughter of the fucking animal.
There's a duh. xD
I think up untill that point, as long as the place is clean and the animals aren't contracting some mutant ebola-birdflu-hantavirus, we don't really care about animal cruelty when they'll be dead anyway. Morality aside, they do -try- to kill the animals painlessly.

I've recently found out one of my buds was a veggo, but he's not one because he is against eating animals. He just doesn't like the taste of it. I seem to hear this more often than animal cruelty sympathizers.