Cause of the Dimensional Split

[Saruiuz]

Ok, I'm relatively new to this site, and this is my first time posting in the forums, but I've read through most of the encyclopedia. I just recently replayed through Chrono Cross, and something bugged me.

When did the dimensional split happen, and what exactly caused it? There may not be enough information to determine the cause, but we should at least know when it happened. I ask because it seems like there is a general consensus on this site that the split happened in 1010 A.D. when Kid went back and saved Serge from drowning. This quote, though, is from Lucca on Opassa Beach before the battle with the Time Devourer:

As Schala fell through the
   time gate in this condition,
   she heard your crying
   echoing through time...
   That is when her story and
   yours began to intertwine...
   It is also when the past and
   the future began to intersect,
   and when the world became
   divided into two...
   Led by the pitiful crying
   the young Serge made as
   the panther demon's poison
   took hold of him...
   Princess Schala traveled ten
   thousand years in time to try
   and make contact with this
   dimension!

Based on that quote, it seems like she could have been referring to the split happening either in 1006 A.D., or, as I had assumed the first time I played through the game, in 12000 B.C. In other words, the split may have been caused by Crono's group's meddling in the events of the Ocean Palace, since that is what eventually caused Schala to be sent to the DBT and merge with Lavos. Of course, the rest of both worlds would have continued on the same or similarly anyway, up until the years prior to the events of Chrono Cross, since until that time this event probably would not have had a significant impact on it. The main difference would have been the existence of Chronopolis and Dinopolis in one of the worlds, but as we know, the Records of FATE were used to prevent contact with the mainland up until the Home World ones stop receiving information from Chronopolis. Note that this would also explain why Chronopolis is shown to have been influencing both worlds prior to 1010 A.D.

Obviously, this all falls apart if there is some kind of concrete evidence that he split happened in the year 1010 A.D., but the closest thing to evidence relating to the exact date I could find was the quote I posted above, and that implies that it did not happen that year. Is there something I missed?

[Chrono'99]

Welcome

I think the main (if not the only) evidence of the split having happened in 1,010 A.D. is this quote by Belthasar:

Prophet:
   Serge... This world is not
   the world you grew up in.
   10 years ago, something
   happened that put your very
   soul teetering on the
   balancing scales of fate...
   with a fifty-fifty chance
   of life or death!
   This is when your future
   was split in twain.

Prophet:
   In your home world, you
   survived to live a happy
   and prosperous life.
   That is how you made it to
   the present point in time.
   However, here in this
   '"alternate"' world,
   you are, in fact,
   very dead and buried.
   You died 10 years ago, but
   this world's time line has
   flowed on regardless.
   You have no place in this world...
   Here, you are but a ghost
   brought back from the past!

Prophet:
   I do not know what
   happened 10 years ago...
   Nor can I guess what
   triggered your entrance
   into this world.

Belthasar states this near the beginning of the game though, so it may be possible that he lied like he does later in the story (and even right here, when he says he "doesn't know what happened 10 years ago"). If he's not outright lying, he could still be blurring the truth by making things ambiguous (perhaps the split he speaks of is only about Serge's destiny, not the whole dimension's integrity). There seem to be more evidence of the dimension having been split before this date, as one of the Chronopolis ghost says that FATE had watched over the two dimensions before Serge caused the Dead Sea's formation, which made FATE unable to control Home World. This is discussed a bit in the Chrono Cross Plot-Hole topic, but I don't think a clear solution has been found (unlike the dates 7,600 B.C. and Lavos' defeat in 1,999 A.D., the two other "mistakes" of the Compendium).

Edit: You can find the plot-hole thread here.

[ZeaLitY]

At the CT/RD/CC/CB topic an OCReMix (the spring / summer 2003 thread which gave birth to the site), we eventually decided that sticking it at 1010 A.D. is the easiest and most logical way to go, a premise confirmed by later temporal discussion. For instance, we'd have the problem of two Darkness Beyond Times, two Kids being sent to the world, the Dead Sea's ten year old existence; things like that. We have less problems than if we had gone the other route. Nonetheless, there just isn't agreement between Chronopolis and everything else. It was some kind of oversight probably; I know from CE how massive these systems of internal logic can get.

[Zaperking]

You can't have two darkness beyond times if they're outside of time =.=

[ZeaLitY]

Yes, that's why 1010 A.D. is the most attractive.

[Zaperking]

Yes, that's why 1010 A.D. is the most attractive.

But I'm saying how could you have two if you can't have two because they're not even directly connected to the timeline to even be doubled.

[ZeaLitY]

Because you'd need two for two copies of Kid to come in if the split occurred before 100...4, 6, whatever A.D.

[Saruiuz]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the fact that there is two Kids seems like the only really hard to explain problem with the split not happening in 1010. In fact, if there is only one DBT, then isn't it conceivable that a Kid appeared on the planet in every dimension at the same time? I know this seems maybe a little crazy . . . but crazy ideas are what I do best, and is there any reason it couldn't have happened?

I only press the issue because I still can't understand Lucca's quote on Opassa Beach in any other way, and that seems like the only concrete evidence we have one way or the other.

[ZeaLitY]

It complicates Chronopolis as well. If there's only one Chronopolis traveling back through time to 7600 B.C., a split any earlier than that (a totally retroactive split, even) means that Home World wouldn't get a Chronopolis, which wouldn't explain why the Dead Sea did not exist in that dimension (or to its inhabitants, who don't know about the split in 1010 A.D.). The dimensions would have to be split in Keystone T-1 for this to work, and Belthasar would have to coordinate two Chronopolises going back in time in two different dimensions. It gets crazy.

[Dark Serge]

the dimensional split happened in 1010 a.d. when Kid saved serge from drowning. Afterwards, Kid called serge to another world.

[Chrono'99]

the dimensional split happened in 1010 a.d. when Kid saved serge from drowning. Afterwards, Kid called serge to another world.

That's a rather peremptory answer. How do you explain that FATE used to be able to intervene in Home World, if Home World was created only when FATE became unable to access it?

[Dark Serge]

FATE didn't. The world FATE intervened in has always been Another World, only from the moment Kid saved Serge, Home World was created, a world where FATE could never intervene.

[Chrono'99]

This quote from a Chronopolis ghost shows that FATE used to be able to give instructions to both worlds:

   An instruction to the young girl
   in Arni 01 to give up going to
   the main continent as a poet.
   An instruction to the man in
   Arni 02 to give up becoming
   a fisherman.
   A plan to avoid any point of
   contact with the main continent,
   so as not to affect history.

Then the ghost proceeds with this quote:

   However...
   Ever since the formation of
   the Dead Sea 10 years ago...
   FATE has been unable to intervene
   directly with World 01.
   The best FATE could do was cross
   the dimension and receive data
   through the Records of Fate.
   And with much difficulty, FATE
   succeeded in binding Miguel
   to the Dead Sea as a watchman...

If FATE became unable to intervene directly with World 01 (Home), this means in all logics that there was a time in which she was able to intervene with it.

[Dark Serge]

That's kind of weird actually because:

Home World is like FATE's nightmare: Serge lives, Lynx disappears, and thus FATE can never access the Frozen Flame again.
So why would FATE bother with that world?

But fact is that the dimension did split in two when Serge was saved, even Belthasar says it (when you first met him I think).

Maybe it's just a major plothole, FATE wasn't meant to ever have controlled Home World.
When the dimensions split in two Home World was created, a world FATE could not directly intervene with indeed, because Serge lives and Lynx is gone.

[Chrono'99]

What if... the Sea of Eden's Chronopolis were not the original Chronopolis (from Keystone T-1) but a slightly different one, one from Keystone T-2/Another World's future? After all, this is what the Sea of Eden is supposed to be, a patch of space representing the future. The Dead Sea represents Home World's future, so shouldn't the Sea of Eden represent Another World's future instead of the former Keystone T-1's? Since Keystone T-2 encompasses two dimensions, the Chronopolis built in Another World would have been aware of a Home World existing next to their dimension.

Arg, this would only explain how Chronopolis can watch Home World though. It wouldn't explain how they could have controlled Home World before it even existed...