Why not release the retranslation as a WIP(Work In Progress)?

[DarknessSavior]

Is it really about the "fanfare?" I just care about getting a good translation out to a game I've loved since I was like...9.

I don't want to take someone elses work and hack it into the game, I want everything to be done by myself or someone in the team I've started. That way no one can say "you stole this, you stole that".

I'm really sorry if this upsets you guys, and I'm sure it'll probably upset the guys at RPGone, because they have an inactive CT retranslation project too. However, I feel that the chances of them getting around to working on CT while doing other things is probably slim. I plan on dedicating most of my hacking time to CT and FF: MQ. Unfortunately, there are some ASM issues to tackle in the future, and I don't know ASM for beans. I either need to learn ASM, or get a talented ASM hacker to give us a hand. -.-

~DS

[KWhazit]

Okay, I finally got around to registering for the forums after all this time... and this seems like as good a place as any to start posting.

Just to get this subject out of the way, I personally don't care about any "fanfare", and haven't since I started translating. I had been working on this and other translations on and off for years, for my own practice and edification, without knowing whether anyone had even noticed them, though I have been making results available on my (horribly ad-ridden) website just so it's out there (and it's an extra set of backups).

So anyway, about naming. I have to admit that names for significant characters were some of the first things I translated (or anglicized, in this case), and most of them I hadn't even looked at since, except in passing. The ones that come up constantly have gotten some attention (like whether Marle's full name should be Marldia, which is closer to the correct pronunciation, or Marledia, which fits better with Marle, which is pronounced more like 'marluh' anyway). Magus I originally called the Warlock King, which is closer to the true meaning but gets cumbersome very quickly, and I was thinking recently about saying "the Magus", but decided against it since it would cause problems if you rename him. Actually, the Square translators seem to have had trouble with him too, since the even the final US version calls him different things in several places ("So what if we won a war against a Wizard hundreds of years ago!").

But back to Chrono Trigger's version of the Three Stooges. I've rechecked them, along with the fake Hero, who also fits into the condiment theme, and DarknessSavior has a point. "Flea" is マヨネー (MAYONEE), which isn't quite mayonnaise; that would be マヨネーズ (MAYONEEZU). "Slash" is ソイソー (SOISOO), which isn't quite soy sauce; that would be ソイソース (SOISOOSU) if you Japanize the English, but the Japanese term, 醤油 (shouyu), is more common. "Ozzie" is ビネガー (BINEGAA), which actually *is* how vinegar is Japanized, but again, you'd normally use the Japanese word for it, 酢 (su). And "Tata" is タータ (TAATA), which isn't quite tartar; that would be タルタル (TARUTARU) when referring to the sauce. The first two could be explained away as random shortenings (pun intended), since words get trimmed down often enough in Japanese, but turning タルタル into タータ? That has to be deliberate, so the others probably are too.

So. Unless there are objections from the Compendium crowd, I think it would make more sense to go with sort-of-not-quite names for them in English, too. "Tata" is too far removed from "tartar", but "Tarta" should work, and it represents the Japanese pronunciation well. "Mayonnay" would work for the mage for similar reasons. For the swordsman... "soysoh" is sort of the 'default' anglicization, but it needs to *work* in English, so maybe "Soysaw"? The big green blob could justifiably be "Vinegar", but sticking with the almost-not-quite theme, maybe a little creative spelling is in order, like "Vinnegar". I refuse to drop the 'r' without very good reason, because it's a long ア sound, which nearly always stands for an English -ar.

Let's see, any other names I can think of that are arguable and at least somewhat significant...?
- Crono's mom is ジナ (JINA), which works equally well as either "Jina" or "Gina". I think I used the 'j' spelling.
- Lucca's mom is ララ (RARA), which could be (at least) "Rara", "Rala", "Lara", or "Lala", but only "Lara" actually sounds like a name in English, even though the actual passcode to stop the machine in the Japanese version is L A L A. Incidentally, I've seen posts on the Internet by frustrated Japanese players who couldn't tell whether they should hit L or R, since they BOTH fit.
- "Schala" is サラ (SARA), which is "Sara", period, unless you insist on a more exotic name and think "Sala" doesn't sound silly.
- The "Gurus" are 賢者 (kenja), which means "wise man" or "sage", but "philosopher" is probably better now that I think of it, especially given the philosophical writings you find, and there's also a minor reference to the Philosopher's Stone (賢者の石).
- The "Epoch" is シルバード (SHIRUBAADO), and I went with Sylbird since it looks like a cross between "silver" and "bird", especially when it flies and when Frog shouts "Heigh-ho, Sylbird!!".
- "Frog" is カエル, which means frog but also means to transform (which he has), to change (which he does), and to be able to keep a pet (which Crono's mom says they can't before realizing he's not just a huge frog), among other things. Unfortunately, I doubt there's any possible way to make the pun work in English, so Frog is Frog.
- "Janus" is ジャキ (JAKI), which sounds like 邪気 (toxic gas or malice) and 邪鬼 (vengeful spirit), appropriate enough considering that his primary motivation later on is hatred of Lavos and seeking vengeance on the same. An English term with similar connotations might be appropriate, but I stuck with the pronunciation and called him "Jyaki".
- And his cat is an interesting one too. アルファド (ARUFADO) is an actual word, as I found out recently; it's Alphard, the brightest star in the constellation Hydra. Alphard lies in a dim patch of sky, making it easily the brightest in its region, and the name comes from Arabic meaning "the solitary one" (Baten Kaitos fans may find it interesting that it's also spelled Alfard and also called Cor Hydrae).

...and I think I went a little overboard on the length... I spent so long writing it my session expired and I had to log in again...

[ZeaLitY]

Not to insinuate otherwise, but the fanfare and precedent of achieving a translation "first" is my department. The Compendium and by extension the Chrono series will receive much-needed attention with the release of the retranslated script and an accompanying article. The translations have already given us a much better understanding of Trigger and have allowed us to define what is and is not canon.

It was the fact that RPGOne would take until 2009 or 2010 that sparked JLukas and I to try and create a retranslation project. Granted, it would have failed, and KWhazit had been translating long before we finally picked up on it. But this is all an afterthought. No CT fan could ask for what KWhazit has done for us, and once the Compendium issues the script and the ROM (if Chronotools and certain volunteers deliver), the great turning point will have passed. It is a keystone achievement in the entire fan community, and we're going to party and make a huge deal about it! WHOO

[Kyronea]

Indeed it is a fantastic achievement for fans all over. I myself intend on examing that script thoroughly for more canonical information to use for the enhancements in Chrono Trigger+'s dialogue. It should help quite a lot, all things considered.

[Ramsus]

Is it really about the "fanfare?" I just care about getting a good translation out to a game I've loved since I was like...9.

I don't want to take someone elses work and hack it into the game, I want everything to be done by myself or someone in the team I've started. That way no one can say "you stole this, you stole that".

I'm really sorry if this upsets you guys, and I'm sure it'll probably upset the guys at RPGone, because they have an inactive CT retranslation project too. However, I feel that the chances of them getting around to working on CT while doing other things is probably slim. I plan on dedicating most of my hacking time to CT and FF: MQ. Unfortunately, there are some ASM issues to tackle in the future, and I don't know ASM for beans. I either need to learn ASM, or get a talented ASM hacker to give us a hand. -.-

~DS

I don't understand what your concern is. We here at the Compendium try to avoid silly Internet drama. I don't see how anyone would be upset if you took KWhazit's retranslation, once finished and released, and worked it into the game, as long as you didn't claim to have translated it yourself. After all, isn't that also part of the hope in releasing such a script?

So if your true intention is to get a good translation done, why work independently? If it's for quality control, then who best to control the quality of the script itself than someone like KWhazit? His grasp of Japanese language and culture seem more than adequate.

Remember, good leadership requires knowing how to get things done, and sometimes that means throwing your own ego aside and joining an all-star team, bringing your best players with you.

If you don't trust that we'll do a good job, then that's fine. Teams depend on trust, so there'd be no place for you. But please, be honest and straightforward about it. Say, "I don't think you can do as good a job as my team can, so we can't work together."

Making silly claims that you're just trying to avoid being accused of "stealing" when you can always communicate (a valuable leadership skill, btw) and maybe ask permission to use something just makes it seem like you're really looking to enhance your ego by leading your own project so you can put your name in giant letters across the end credits.

[DarknessSavior]

I don't understand what your concern is. We here at the Compendium try to avoid silly Internet drama. I don't see how anyone would be upset if you took KWhazit's retranslation, once finished and released, and worked it into the game, as long as you didn't claim to have translated it yourself. After all, isn't that also part of the hope in releasing such a script?

So if your true intention is to get a good translation done, why work independently? If it's for quality control, then who best to control the quality of the script itself than someone like KWhazit? His grasp of Japanese language and culture seem more than adequate.

Remember, good leadership requires knowing how to get things done, and sometimes that means throwing your own ego aside and joining an all-star team, bringing your best players with you.

If you don't trust that we'll do a good job, then that's fine. Teams depend on trust, so there'd be no place for you. But please, be honest and straightforward about it. Say, "I don't think you can do as good a job as my team can, so we can't work together."

Making silly claims that you're just trying to avoid being accused of "stealing" when you can always communicate (a valuable leadership skill, btw) and maybe ask permission to use something just makes it seem like you're really looking to enhance your ego by leading your own project so you can put your name in giant letters across the end credits.

I wasn't really trying to get into the whole "Internet Drama" thing, and it isn't an ego issue, either. There are two OTHER CT retranslation projects out there, besides mine. Why don't they come here and use your script? Probably for the same reason, they want to have the work done from scratch, instead of assuming that someone else's work is complete and done the right way. Plus, I've already got a translator who is really looking forward to working on CT, someone who I am very lucky to work with, and who would probably be pretty upset if I told him that I was going to use someone elses script. Also, if I were to grab your script and use it, I guarantee there would be at LEAST a few issues where I would go "I wouldn't word things that way" or "That translation doesn't make sense" or what have you. If I'm working with a translator at the same time I'm doing the hacking, I can easily communicate those ideas with the translator. Would KWhazit appreciate me nitpicking his translation? I'd assume not.

I'm sorry if me asking questions around here makes you upset, that wasn't my intention at all. The CT project is going to be my first big project, and I would prefer to do most of the work on my own, or with my own team. It isn't really an ego thing, as I said before, it's more of a proving myself thing; no one has been able to complete a retranslation of Chrono Trigger, and if we can pull it off, then maybe we can pull off some other cool things in the future. I don't mean for it to seem like I don't care that you guys have a translation out, in fact, I wish I had known about it sooner, because in my preliminary project (BEFORE I had a translator) I was looking for resources like that, and all I could find were two half-finished guides to the CT translation on GameFAQs.

Now, if you would like to work together, would it bother you guys if my translator had a look at the script and such, and then we try to collaborate? Suzaku is a very good translator (see his work on VGundam for SNES) and I would like to see what he comes up with.

~DS

[ZeaLitY]

Well, RPGOne doesn't really count as a project, as they have said time and time again that they have several other things to do before Chrono Trigger. This is not counting the other issues of delays. If they do intend to get it out of the door, I'm expecting 2009 or 2010.

But I'll let Ramsus reply again.

[Ramsus]

I wasn't really trying to get into the whole "Internet Drama" thing, and it isn't an ego issue, either. There are two OTHER CT retranslation projects out there, besides mine. Why don't they come here and use your script? Probably for the same reason, they want to have the work done from scratch, instead of assuming that someone else's work is complete and done the right way. Plus, I've already got a translator who is really looking forward to working on CT, someone who I am very lucky to work with, and who would probably be pretty upset if I told him that I was going to use someone elses script. Also, if I were to grab your script and use it, I guarantee there would be at LEAST a few issues where I would go "I wouldn't word things that way" or "That translation doesn't make sense" or what have you. If I'm working with a translator at the same time I'm doing the hacking, I can easily communicate those ideas with the translator. Would KWhazit appreciate me nitpicking his translation? I'd assume not.

I'm sorry if me asking questions around here makes you upset, that wasn't my intention at all. The CT project is going to be my first big project, and I would prefer to do most of the work on my own, or with my own team. It isn't really an ego thing, as I said before, it's more of a proving myself thing; no one has been able to complete a retranslation of Chrono Trigger, and if we can pull it off, then maybe we can pull off some other cool things in the future. I don't mean for it to seem like I don't care that you guys have a translation out, in fact, I wish I had known about it sooner, because in my preliminary project (BEFORE I had a translator) I was looking for resources like that, and all I could find were two half-finished guides to the CT translation on GameFAQs.

Now, if you would like to work together, would it bother you guys if my translator had a look at the script and such, and then we try to collaborate? Suzaku is a very good translator (see his work on VGundam for SNES) and I would like to see what he comes up with.

~DS

I'm just trying to open up some discussion and help reduce unnecessary competition within an already small and fragmented community, but I've little personal involvement in any of the fan projects at the site. If you have any interest in collaborating with the Compendium's project, your best bet would be to talk to KWhazit and Zeality. Even if you plan on starting from scratch, it'd only be healthy for your team to talk to them about what they've done and how they're handling all of the translation issues. Maybe you can brainstorm a little and get a head start on how you yourselves will handle things.

At least, I'm hoping they'd be more than willing to share their work openly with anyone who wants to help. After all, who knows what kinds of opportunities regular discussion and exchanging each other's progress could open up? You could work on hacking the game and, together with your translator and KWhazit, help develop a better script for in-game presentation (i.e. "This line takes to long to read in the actual game, breaking the action," or even "your English for this line changes the meaning X way, but I feel that Y needs to be implied somehow." Then bounce ideas around for a bit and decide). You could figure out who has more interest in what, for example, maybe KWhazit would prefer to make an good, sturdy translation of the script to be understood outside of the game and used for analysis/discussion purposes, while your translator would rather create a script that works better inside the game itself.

I can understand now why you'd want to work independently though. Basically, this is a good opportunity for you to try out your skills and develop a few good working relationships in the ROM hacking/translation world, possibly too good of one to pass up in the name of getting a good translation out a little sooner. You already laid the foundation to work closely with someone, and you don't want to risk destroying that to work with complete strangers. That's completely respectable.

If there's nothing to gain from working together, then remember that having the goal of being the first working CT retranslation might be a bit difficult working independently. The Compendium's project seems further along with the translation itself, and Zeality is a demon workaholic overseer who will take notice and compete with your progress at every step (even if you hide it, since he has his own information network...). Be sure to keep a tight schedule (and maybe do a few things startup style) if you decide to go that route.

Anyway, have fun, and do ask your translator what his feelings are, now that you know about our work.