Author Topic: If you were on the Enterprise D...  (Read 1720 times)

ZeaLitY

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If you were on the Enterprise D...
« on: February 09, 2007, 12:00:45 am »
Name one thing you would do at a time (no double posts). It can be frivolous or sincere.

I'd ask Data several questions concerning his perceptions and judgments of humanity.

Oh, and P.S.: http://www.creationent.com/cal/stlv.htm

What the HELL? I'm not going to my first little Star Trek gathering ever if Picard isn't. Frakes is a big draw, and Shatner is incorrigible, but I'd rather try and catch Patrick Stewart doing some real theatre.

Glennleo

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2007, 12:11:34 am »
Ask them all if they have seen their sites on YTMND  :lol:!

Lord J Esq

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2007, 05:44:12 am »
I'd visit the holodeck before Hadriel got to it. I don't think I'd want to be there afterwards. =)

ZeaLitY

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2007, 10:45:40 am »
I'd sit in engineering and stare at the warp engine for a couple hours at a time. There's nothing as awesome as the vehicle by which travel is made possible. That hulking blue...

cupn00dles

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 10:53:25 am »
There's nothing as awesome as the vehicle by which travel is made possible.

Lightspeed travel would it be?

Kyronea

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2007, 01:08:08 pm »
Name one thing you would do at a time (no double posts). It can be frivolous or sincere.

I'd ask Data several questions concerning his perceptions and judgments of humanity.

Oh, and P.S.: http://www.creationent.com/cal/stlv.htm

What the HELL? I'm not going to my first little Star Trek gathering ever if Picard isn't. Frakes is a big draw, and Shatner is incorrigible, but I'd rather try and catch Patrick Stewart doing some real theatre.
You're able to go to conventions? You're luckier than I am, that's for sure.

Anyway, in answer to your question, I'd probably see if I could live on the ship, or at least stay in the Star Trek universe somehow. Methinks living on Earth in that universe would be perfect, so long as I avoid San Francisco during the Dominion War.

Hadriel

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2007, 06:35:25 pm »
I'd visit the holodeck before Hadriel got to it. I don't think I'd want to be there afterwards. =)

Have I ever told you that I love you? :lol:

At any rate, if I were on the Enterprise-D, quite a lot of episodes would have gone differently, most of them involving decisions of whether or not to photon torpedo something in the face.  Picard was a strong and principled leader, but there were times when he let his idealism get the best of him against enemies that have no such concept.  Even above the myriad scientific blunders of the newer series (crack in an event horizon, anyone?), the moments when Star Trek has been the least realistic have been the ones where people have acted like it's all for the ideal.  The Federation's system really doesn't work as advertised, regardless of any potential advances in technology; DS9's Section 31 bits made harsh light of that.  That isn't to say that I prefer the staunchly pro-American sensibilities of the original series, but I do prefer its characters.

As a general rule, I prefer shows like Battlestar Galactica and Babylon 5 over Star Trek, because they depict humanity in a much more realistic light.  Both shows have their share of heroism, but they also show us the seedy, self-destructive side of humanity that Star Trek's polished settings always seem to gloss over.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 06:59:22 pm by Hadriel »

ZeaLitY

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2007, 01:27:05 am »
Aww, hell! That idealism is what separates them from us. They aren't a savage child race any longer. We should strive to one day be as cogent as Picard. But that doesn't mean we can't exhibit the passion of youth like Kirk, either!

Lord J Esq

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2007, 02:30:28 am »
I'm with ZeaLitY. Star Trek from DS9 onward was just the late 20th century in 24th (and 22nd) century clothing. Let's hope the real 24th century is a little less ignorant than we are.

Hadriel

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 03:41:08 am »
Oh, don't get me wrong.  The ideal is wonderful, and it certainly ought to be striven for.  But as long as we're human, we'll never quite get there.  Now, if humanity's core nature were to change, then a Star Trek-like society might be possible.  But I don't believe that's actually possible to do; humans have unlimited wants, and always have.  The only way to make a Star Trek society would be to alter people to the point where their wants are either finite or nonexistent, and this is fundamentally against everything humanity has ever been.  I'm not saying that your past inevitably determines your future; I believe in redemption and in the power of a determined individual to get where they want to be in life.  But actually attempting to change the underlying framework of said life is a futile endeavor.

Note that I'm jumping at the chance to be convinced otherwise.

ZeaLitY

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2007, 03:47:40 am »
Well, hell, take a little dosage of elitism and use yourself as an example. You can obviously handle living on a more engrossing tier than certain people, so the potential is there. But I think Lord J probably has more to offer about human nature changing and that subject.

Lord J Esq

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2007, 06:28:57 am »
Oh, don't get me wrong.  The ideal is wonderful, and it certainly ought to be striven for.  But as long as we're human, we'll never quite get there.  Now, if humanity's core nature were to change, then a Star Trek-like society might be possible.  But I don't believe that's actually possible to do; humans have unlimited wants, and always have.  The only way to make a Star Trek society would be to alter people to the point where their wants are either finite or nonexistent, and this is fundamentally against everything humanity has ever been.  I'm not saying that your past inevitably determines your future; I believe in redemption and in the power of a determined individual to get where they want to be in life.  But actually attempting to change the underlying framework of said life is a futile endeavor.

Note that I'm jumping at the chance to be convinced otherwise.

Well…when you put it like that. =)

To begin with, I think you are coming at this from a false premise. Human desire may well be illimitable (or, to put it more accurately, insatiable), but, for one thing, that does not preclude the evolution of our society into one more enlightened and peaceful. The rearing of children is essential in this, as is the nature of popular culture. You have to remember that human beings are born as wild animals, with genes older than civilization itself, and that it is our upbringing alone—nurture—which is responsible for our entire sophistication as civil beings. Our sources of influence in our early years have an incredible impact on who and what we become later, and, as society advances its understanding of the mind and of itself, the rearing of children will open up to more possibilities, better possibilities, than were available to us ever before. Fighting against that propensity are traditional social values that encourage many kinds of ignorance, along with bad parents who have children they are not prepared to raise, and, of course, a ubiquitous and irresponsible pop culture that feeds children a steady diet of bad ideas for their entire youth, and beyond. But, in fits and starts, we have made spectacular progress in the past several thousand years—or even in the past several dozen. That same insatiable human desire that you claim to be a liability in our quest for enlightenment is actually our greatest asset, forever pushing us forward to grow beyond ourselves and reach for lofty heights that our ancestors could scarcely have dreamed about. Picard’s 24th century Federation is hardly the “ideal” society; it is simply one 20th century dreamer’s vision of how civilization might fancifully look once we have progressed through some of the major social issues of our time, developed fantastic new technologies, and taken our place as starfarers in a populous galaxy.

For another thing, and even more importantly, there is no mutual exclusion between insatiable desire and serene satisfaction. Your false premise is that the competition of wills between or within individuals will always corrupt the so-called “ideal society.” Not true. To take a stereotype for my example, consider all those Zen monks and martial arts masters, who are immensely influential and wise, yet often are content to drink tea and drill their students rather than conquer the world. This is, of course, an exaggeration, but it is reminiscent of real people who can reconcile the pursuit of their desires with their responsibility to the world around them. The true secret of this power is awareness; awareness is the forge that tempers discipline and desire into the stuff of good character. We do not need to fundamentally alter the human condition so as to fit our insatiable wants into a finite planet. We have that power today, and many people have already created it within themselves, by building their awareness and choosing a judicious path in life. I am not talking about a myth; I myself have begun to cultivate it in the past few years. I have grand desires, but I am also slowly learning to be at peace with the world whenever possible. It is immensely gratifying to feel as though I am floating on a cloud above the foggy din of everyday turmoil. It is calming, soothing, inspiring—and my dreams are not sacrificed to exist in this state of mind. Truly, such a claim almost sounds like divine intervention, and yet it is blessedly religion-free.

In one very stark way, none of this matters. The United Federation will almost certainly never exist. By the time our technology evolves to even a fraction of that level, we will have already attained the power to fundamentally alter the human condition, and we will have used it. Life as we know it may well be vastly different, so as to render the society of 24th century humanity all but unrecognizable to our modern selves. Indeed…with such power our descendents may well have destroyed ourselves by that time, or at least set themselves back to beyond Ayla’s day. But that is neither here nor there.

Oh, and in all sincerity, if I could have free rein of the Enterprise, I would go find the large forward viewing windows at the center of Deck 3, just below the main bridge, and stargaze for a long time. They never showed it in the television show but, from this position, the Enterprise itself—the dorsal surface of the forward primary hull—takes up nearly the entire lower half of an observer’s field of vision. The stars would fill up the rest. Then, for something even more ethereal, I’d find a comparable position on the forward secondary hull, with the stars beneath me and the underside of the saucer above me.

After that I would walk the corridors of the ship—some of which go on for miles. Then I really would visit the holodeck, to fulfill a few impossible fantasies of mine, like self-powered flight, electricity-bolts shooting from my fingers, and the power to control gravity. I’d probably act out a few long-held sex fantasies too.

Speaking of gravity, I would make it a point to visit the low-gravity gymnasium, as there are a number of physical activities I have always wanted to try in low- and zero-g.

And of course, as an astronautical engineer—and it was Scotty who got me started on that path—I would have to tour the engineering levels. Maybe I’d talk shop with Geordie LaForge and challenge him to a technobabble duel.

Josh: Say, have you ever tried remodulating the triphasic subspace warp inducers into the upper C-band, and then measuring your plasma coil flow constrictor ratios for a harmonic resonance—

Geordi: —equivalent to the lateral displacement of the embedded impulse inversion field, thereby increasing warp field response efficiency levels—

Josh & Geordie: —by over point oh-eight percent!

Riker: You guys would do all that for less than tenth of a point of efficiency?

Josh & Geordie: Grr…

ZeaLitY

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2007, 02:48:05 pm »
Well, if it ain't crabapple, season seven bearded Riker! Shave that scraggle off and reform your enjoyable relationship with Picard enjoyed in 1987, you sad sack!

Lord J Esq

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2007, 02:52:27 pm »
Well, if it ain't crabapple, season seven bearded Riker! Shave that scraggle off and reform your enjoyable relationship with Picard enjoyed in 1987, you sad sack!

You said it! Let's repolarize his face with a transverse depilatory particle beam!

Hadriel

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Re: If you were on the Enterprise D...
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2007, 08:02:20 pm »
Quote
Well…when you put it like that. =)

To begin with, I think you are coming at this from a false premise. Human desire may well be illimitable (or, to put it more accurately, insatiable), but, for one thing, that does not preclude the evolution of our society into one more enlightened and peaceful.

Oh no, I agree with that.  It's just that not many people are willing to be disciplined enough to think about anything except their desires.  It's easier a lot of the time to be lazy in life.

Quote
For another thing, and even more importantly, there is no mutual exclusion between insatiable desire and serene satisfaction. Your false premise is that the competition of wills between or within individuals will always corrupt the so-called “ideal society.” Not true. To take a stereotype for my example, consider all those Zen monks and martial arts masters, who are immensely influential and wise, yet often are content to drink tea and drill their students rather than conquer the world. This is, of course, an exaggeration, but it is reminiscent of real people who can reconcile the pursuit of their desires with their responsibility to the world around them. The true secret of this power is awareness; awareness is the forge that tempers discipline and desire into the stuff of good character. We do not need to fundamentally alter the human condition so as to fit our insatiable wants into a finite planet. We have that power today, and many people have already created it within themselves, by building their awareness and choosing a judicious path in life. I am not talking about a myth; I myself have begun to cultivate it in the past few years. I have grand desires, but I am also slowly learning to be at peace with the world whenever possible. It is immensely gratifying to feel as though I am floating on a cloud above the foggy din of everyday turmoil. It is calming, soothing, inspiring—and my dreams are not sacrificed to exist in this state of mind. Truly, such a claim almost sounds like divine intervention, and yet it is blessedly religion-free.

How many people can do that, though?  Again, discipline takes effort.  Striving to be better is just that - striving.  It's a conscious choice you have to make every single day to be better than the standard, and it gets bloody exhausting after a while.

Quote
Then I really would visit the holodeck, to fulfill a few impossible fantasies of mine, like self-powered flight, electricity-bolts shooting from my fingers, and the power to control gravity.

All of those are possible in Star Trek, no holodeck required.

Quote
Josh: Say, have you ever tried remodulating the triphasic subspace warp inducers into the upper C-band, and then measuring your plasma coil flow constrictor ratios for a harmonic resonance—

Geordi: —equivalent to the lateral displacement of the embedded impulse inversion field, thereby increasing warp field response efficiency levels—

Josh & Geordie: —by over point oh-eight percent!

Riker: You guys would do all that for less than tenth of a point of efficiency?

Josh & Geordie: Grr…

At the levels of power output you're working with, 0.08% extra efficiency will probably buy you a few terajoules at least.  So yeah, Riker can be pretty dumb sometimes.