The Summoning Circle in Magus's Castle

[Magus068]

But it CAN'T be at the top of the castle due to the staircase.

And half of Magus's character theme is that, in his lust for vengeance, he's losing himself and making all the same mistakes his mom did.

If you think so. I personally always thought he was smarter than that. He was consumed, sure. But I don't think that he would make the same mistakes. And the staircase prooves nothing, since you climb the outside of the tower before it. If anything it furthur prooves my point, since that staircase would make an ideal escape route straight to the roof.

If you're a summoner, wouldn't you do your summoning ritual as close as possible to Lavos?  If Magus create a summoning circle in the roof it would require more energy to summon than doing it in the basement & he'll left with little or no energy to fight Lavos if he did it on the roof.  Furthermore, Magus doesn't care whether he live or die as long as he gets even with Lavos.

[Radox Redux]

Hehe. You guys are right. I realised that my last post was actually self-invalidated, Since if the stairs were to lead to the roof, as a means of escape, then there would be no reason for Magus not to be as close to Lavos as possible. So I agree that maybe it would be more logical to have the room at the bottom. Although, in my defense, there is no evidence that Magus would be more drained depending on his range from Lavos. The only thing that we can ascertain from the games, is that he would merely be more successful in summoning Lavos.

[Mr. Molecule]

If Lavos is in a pocket dimension, why does it matter how close the summoner's circle is built to his location? That is, if he has no physical location in the world, then summoning him into the world (presumably through a dimensional gate) shouldn't change depending on location.

Or, are we debating his closeness to where the walls between the PD and the regular world are weakest?

[Kyronea]

If Lavos is in a pocket dimension, why does it matter how close the summoner's circle is built to his location? That is, if he has no physical location in the world, then summoning him into the world (presumably through a dimensional gate) shouldn't change depending on location.

Well, a Pocket Dimension is, by definition, small and thus at least some proximity would make the summoning process easier...at the very least it would take a lot less energy to perform. Considering what Magus was attempting to summon, anything that can reduce the energy required is essential.

Or, are we debating his closeness to where the walls between the PD and the regular world are weakest?

I would imagine that's definitely part of it. The Pocket Dimension is located somewhere in the Planet's core, or at least close to it, to maximize Lavos' energy-draining potential. As such, if one were to attempt to move to the spot where the barriers between the dimensions are weakest, the best location would be directly above, if one must be on the surface. Preferably he would be right above it in the mantle around the Pocket Dimension but that is, at best, difficult to achieve, so we are left with the next best alternative.

[satchel_dawg]

i'll sound stupid saying it but, possibly the closeness is the same, you know by changing water hieghts(sea level) or such. i'm probably wrong about it though.

the closeness could also depend on how you're awakening lavos. the zealians had the mammon machine, it might conduct better in water or in closeness. and a spell in a summoning circle may in fact have a better chance of breeching a PD by being closer to the moons energy.

[ShoeMagus]

Well, if you are into occultism, the four beasts could be symbolic of the "four elements", though decidedly different than traditional occultism. An Abrahemlin-ish symbolism.

Of course, being close to Lavos doesn't seem to be the goal. The idea I think is to be closer to the hole/rip that Lavos left back in the days of Zeal when the way into the Pocket Dimension was ripped open. The problem is that Magus's Lair is a bit of a maze and there's really no telling just where you are in relation to the ground. I guess someone could take time to figure it out if they really wanted to. But then, there's no telling just where you were transported when you hit that thing after beating Slash and Flea.

[Radox Redux]

Don't forget about what I said earlier in regards to Magus' tower possibly being some sort of means to amplify the energy. At the very least, we can say the spell invoked by the summoning circle may be carried to the PD by the tower. I just think there would be a reason for the tower to dissappear into the ground like that, plus if the summoning spell could somehow be carried by the tower to Lavos, it would fit in the with the concept of getting as close as possible to Lavos, in order to summon him.

[jihnsius]

If Lavos is in a pocket dimension, why does it matter how close the summoner's circle is built to his location? That is, if he has no physical location in the world, then summoning him into the world (presumably through a dimensional gate) shouldn't change depending on location.

This actually somewhat supports an idea I had, which can be linked to the idea about the summoning circle: Imagine the Omen from a top-view, it very well may match up with the summoning circle in some aspects, or might even go as far as to be a nearly perfect rendition, geometrically. The idea that the summoning circle has an effect on Lavos, and going farther to mean that the design in the Omen has an effect, would imply that Lavos is in a pocket dimension, and that there might just be another dimension in between ours and his, which can only be described as two dimensional (think the theory that there's a "third" dimension between Another and Home that connect the points of least resistance.) Perhaps the change from the three dimensional view (top-down) of the Omen converts to a 2D design, like the summoning circle, and lines up the points of least resistance in either dimension. It's a far-fetched idea, but it kind of supports both theories, about the summoning circle and the Omen and the dimension between each.

[DMagusEdwards]

Might be a stretch, but I think it {Magus's circle} might be based off the Ocean Palace because the runes on the palace may have affected Lavos's Pocket Dimension, or simply make it big enough so the Mammon Machine {and Frozen Flame, maybe?} to affect Lavos directly.  Magus may have remembered the design right before he slipped into the black Gate-thing Lavos made, and decided to copy it to attempt to replicate the Pocket Dimension expansion.  Its a stretch, but that's my idea.

[Generality]

If Lavos is in a pocket dimension, why does it matter how close the summoner's circle is built to his location? That is, if he has no physical location in the world, then summoning him into the world (presumably through a dimensional gate) shouldn't change depending on location.

Or, are we debating his closeness to where the walls between the PD and the regular world are weakest?

Lavos' Pocket Dimension is physically removed from the mundane world, yes, but it's still attached to that world, and the point of attachment is at that specific location. It is there that the connection between the physical world and Lavos' PD exists, and only from there can Lavos (or anyone else) enter or emerge from his PD.

Think about it. In the entire game, that geographical spot, at those spatial coordinates, is the only place where Lavos CAN be encountered, regardless of time period. His PD is connected to that spot.

[alpha]

Think about it. In the entire game, that geographical spot, at those spatial coordinates, is the only place where Lavos CAN be encountered, regardless of time period. His PD is connected to that spot.

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hence the neccesity of a summoning circle . Basically it would be used to create another connection to his PD where he could be drawn to the castle.

[maggiekarp]

It's split into four pieces to reflect the four types of magic in the first game. This is probably the same reason the statue has four arms, as well.

Dragons didn't play as large a role in CT as they did in CC, but they were all over Magus's castle, and the Guardian crest resembles a dragon as well. It's not too hard to imagine those things are some sort of dragon.

[Generality]

Think about it. In the entire game, that geographical spot, at those spatial coordinates, is the only place where Lavos CAN be encountered, regardless of time period. His PD is connected to that spot.

hence the neccesity of a summoning circle . Basically it would be used to create another connection to his PD where he could be drawn to the castle.

That, or he was simply trying to punch into the existing connection point (since he was situated directly above it) and create a bridge between himself and Lavos. Alternatively, he may have been trying to make another PD next to the original, so that the two would join together like two soap bubbles. Either way would have brought himself and Lavos together.

[Seifaiden]

I'm pretty sure its significance is pretty much that it's just Magus' rug.  In all seriousness, I doubt that little thought was given by the designers beyond "this looks cool and magical" in the design on this rug, no matter how attractive it looks. 

The Xenosaga series is the type of game prone to absurd levels of symbolism, references, relationships between references and that sort of thing, where no potential reference can be immediately dismissed due to Tetsuya Takahashi's neurotic insistence on their inclusion.  While I'm the first to say that Chrono Trigger is an amazing, life-changing game, it seems that people are often eager to make/find something significant when there is nothing beyond the superficial.

[Stormsend]

Seifaiden, why give up on thinking? A lot of the excitement is interpretation and discovering new things about the game that captured our hearts. That's part of why we're here, isn't it?

Red is obviously Magus' castle. Aqua is Ocean Palace location. Yellow is where Lavos hit the planet.



Well, this is just great. How does this relate to the summoning circle?

Well, if it is a compass-like circle, obviously Magus's summoning will have to pinpoint Lavos, correct? Assume that Lavos hit the earth coming from a southeasterly direction, meaning it didn't burrow straight down, but northwest on the map. We can assume this because Crono and the gang were able to re-visit the Tyrano lair, right? If Lavos had gone straight down, he would have been on top of it the whole time. So, let's say that the summoning circle and the Ocean Palace were mystical compasses, pinpointing Lavos' power, with the Palace summoning his energy for the benefit of Zeal, and Magus's circle summoning Lavos himself in order to have vengence.

Also take into account that Magus is from Zeal, and nothing there was simplistic, was it? The emphasis on dreams is but one example of the underlying complexity that is the Ambition of Zeal.

As for the beasts, I have no idea. The Four Horseman idea was pretty cool, to be honest. Lavos is the Apocalypse, is he not? Sure, Magus didn't know what Lavos would do in 1999 A.D., but he knew Lavos destroyed his world.

...Okay. I'm about burnt out for the moment.