A Planet Cannot Recover After a Lavoid Attack

[Kyronea]

Nice "getting kicked in the nads" analogy

...excuse me? I don't understand.

[Mad Bear]

...excuse me? I don't understand.

I think they were commenting on another poster's analogy of Lavos's attack on the planet being like a guy getting kicked in the nads.  Would he recover? Sure.  But he'd rather just sidestep the whole thing.

Now, in response to your initial post, I agree.  It would kind of invalidate most of the game's plot if the planet was just going to recover anyway.  Couldn't Mother Brain have been flawed in whatever calculations brought her to that conclusion?  It obviously wasn't functioning properly, so (to me) that puts a miscalculation like that well within the realm of possibility.  Kind of like an insane person, only, you know, a machine.

[Glennleo]

I think they were commenting on another poster's analogy of Lavos's attack on the planet being like a guy getting kicked in the nads.  Would he recover? Sure.  But he'd rather just sidestep the whole thing.

I think this is the best way to describe it. Couldn't say it any better myself. 

[Mad Bear]

Happy to oblige.

[Chrono'99]

Now, in response to your initial post, I agree.  It would kind of invalidate most of the game's plot if the planet was just going to recover anyway.  Couldn't Mother Brain have been flawed in whatever calculations brought her to that conclusion?  It obviously wasn't functioning properly, so (to me) that puts a miscalculation like that well within the realm of possibility.  Kind of like an insane person, only, you know, a machine.

Mother Brain is speaking about a country of iron, not a natural recovery with grass and plants and stuff. She was right in what she said.

[Mad Bear]

Mother Brain is speaking about a country of iron, not a natural recovery with grass and plants and stuff. She was right in what she said.

She says the planet will recover. THEN she says "And the new world of we robots WOULD be constructed."  The structure of the sentence would imply to me that the one happens independently of the other.  The planet heals, and the utopia is built.  Not the other way around.  Hence my theory that she was flawed in her calculations.  Rambling, as it were.  Just my opinion, though, 

[Kyronea]

Well, it doesn't make sense, though. Why would the Mother Brain care if the planet recovers? The robots don't need the environment to live in like humans do. She was comitting genocide, even!(Hence the name Genocidome.) She obviously doesn't care for organic life, and I don't see why she would let the Planet recover even if it could. Again, it invalidates everything.

[Chrono'99]

Mother Brain is speaking about a country of iron, not a natural recovery with grass and plants and stuff. She was right in what she said.

She says the planet will recover. THEN she says "And the new world of we robots WOULD be constructed."  The structure of the sentence would imply to me that the one happens independently of the other.  The planet heals, and the utopia is built.  Not the other way around.  Hence my theory that she was flawed in her calculations.  Rambling, as it were.  Just my opinion, though, 

The two sentences can't be independent from each other. How would you explain the sentence put inbetween them else? ("If only humans weren't here...…") The humans are the last obstacle to the robots' total domination of the planet. If you think that Mother Brain was speaking about nature, then it would mean humans are an obstacle to that nature recovery... It wouldn't make sense, it's not like they're polluting the environment or anything in 2,300 AD.

[Radox Redux]

Hmmm. Interesting. Have you concidered the idea, that 'death of the entity' does not necessarily mean 'death of the planet'. I personaly think that the entity is the planet. But that it also exists as it's own being, perhaps parralel to the difference between our body and minds. Humanity can still live on a planet corpse, at least for some time, as indicated by 2400 AD.

Another idea is that the Mother Brain was talking about the recovery of the planet from her/it's perspective. A world that can not support organic life, may be deemed a recovery to a machine that wishes to fill the planet with nothing but other machines.

Just some food for thought. 

[Mad Bear]

The two sentences can't be independent from each other. How would you explain the sentence put inbetween them else? ("If only humans weren't here...…") The humans are the last obstacle to the robots' total domination of the planet. If you think that Mother Brain was speaking about nature, then it would mean humans are an obstacle to that nature recovery... It wouldn't make sense, it's not like they're polluting the environment or anything in 2,300 AD.

Re-reading the quote again, the structure makes that a little harder to determine.  Mother-Brain says that the planet WILL recover.  Not that it might or "would, if..."  The sentence concerning humans doesn't really fit with the tense of that sentence.  It does, however, fit with the tense of the following sentence regarding the machine utopia.  Again, though, the "And" at the beginning makes it not flow smoothly.

It makes me believe even moreso that she believes (erroneously) that the planet will recover from the damage done by Lavos.  When speaking of humans as an obstacle, though, I agree that it is in regard to her robotic paradise.

This planet WILL recoVER.
   If only humans weren't here...…

   And the new world of we robots WOULD be
   constructed.
   A country of iron...... a utopia with neither
   hatred nor sorrow.

[Mystic Frog King]

Erm, did you ever think that Mother Brain was wrong in her assumption that the planet will recover? Of course, her perception of 'Recovering' must be rather different to ours.

Of course, that could also be correct, but I personally favor the idea that she meant it would be a world inhabited only by robots. It's a line up to interpretation, and the interpretation in the Translations Differences article is wrong.

If she meant that a robot Utopia would take over, would she use the word 'planet', however? She possibly views the day of Lavos and it's effects as an example of human weakness.

[AuraTwilight]

Well, it's normal arrogance to equate your kind with the planet. How many times in pop culture has a merely Humanity-threatening villain/force been referred to as "The End of The World?"

[Mystic Frog King]

Yes, I agree. And of course, the world is at an end for you if you die, because you won't be on it anymore anyway. Or something.

[evirus]

Again, that makes no sense. If the Planet is to recover, why would the Planet bother creating Gates and sending Crono and the gang on their journey in the first place? The Planet does not care about the humans, only for its own life. If it was just humanity dying out I don't think the Planet would care. It's a misinterpretation on Zeality's part, though definitely an understandable one.

your assumption on the entity creating the gates for its own survival might be one of the causes of this problem, later after this post you admit that mother brain could be wrong in her assumptions, no matter how logical they may seem, couldn't Robo also be wrong about his observation that "It is almost as if some entity wanted to relive its past"?

 im reminded of a time in highschool when after another teacher left the classroom a student said "he looks like he is stoned" the teacher started talking about slander while i was thinking the kid had made a simple observation.

just because Robo's observation (that the chain of events that  direct the party are similar to that of a dieing person reliving their past), has some logic to it dosn't mean that it is exactly whats realy happening.

but going along with this whole entity created gates nonsense(in my opinion) have you ever been so ill you felt like you where going to die(this is more of a thought expairment then a question), and having been reduced to morning about your condition? don't you think you would remember some key points in your life at that point? people can get sick to the point in which they think death is around the corner, but they manage to pull through. just because the entity thinks its dieing, dosn't mean it is in actuality "living on barrowed time".

[Kyronea]

your assumption on the entity creating the gates for its own survival might be one of the causes of this problem, later after this post you admit that mother brain could be wrong in her assumptions, no matter how logical they may seem, couldn't Robo also be wrong about his observation that "It is almost as if some entity wanted to relive its past"?

Robo could be wrong, but then Robo has also had four hundred YEARS to think about it, and frankly, why create that scene at all if it was not the truth of what is going on with the Chronoverse? What kind of sense would it make? You know, if you don't do the Fiona's Forest sidequest, in the main ending there's a different set of dialogue where they--Marle and Lucca, essentially propose the same exact thing:

Code: [Select]

Lucca: I thought Lavos made the  ルッカ「ゲートはラヴォスの力で  Lucca: We thought the Gates were born from 
   Gates... 　　　生まれたものと思っていたけど……    Lavos's power, but......
   But I guess I was wrong. 　　　今思うと違ってたのかもね。[END]    Thinking about it now, we may have been wrong.

Marle: What do you mean? マール「どういう事？[END] Marle: What do you mean?

Lucca: I think a greater force ルッカ「もっと違う…… Lucca: I wonder if another......
   wanted us to experience those 　　　あたたかく大きな存在が    If a great, warm being didn't want to show us
   events. 　　　いろんな時代を私達に    the various eras.
　　　見せたかったんじゃないかな。[END]

Okay, poorly formatted, but you see my point: the creators of the game would not create this scene or the Fiona's Forest scene if it were not meant to be what is really going on with the events! Nothing in the game contradicts this, apart from one line by a crazy corrupted computer program that is eagerly trying to wipe out all organic life.

 

im reminded of a time in highschool when after another teacher left the classroom a student said "he looks like he is stoned" the teacher started talking about slander while i was thinking the kid had made a simple observation.

just because Robo's observation (that the chain of events that  direct the party are similar to that of a dieing person reliving their past), has some logic to it dosn't mean that it is exactly whats realy happening.

And if there was another scene contradicting this that showed the truth then you might have a point, but you don't.

but going along with this whole entity created gates nonsense(in my opinion) have you ever been so ill you felt like you where going to die(this is more of a thought expairment then a question), and having been reduced to morning about your condition? don't you think you would remember some key points in your life at that point? people can get sick to the point in which they think death is around the corner, but they manage to pull through. just because the entity thinks its dieing, dosn't mean it is in actuality "living on barrowed time".

The Planet is dying...what else would having its energy sucked from it by a sentient parasitical lifeform for 65,000,000 years do to it? Again, I don't see what your point is. There is nothing in the series mythos to contradict any of this!

I challenge you to explain to me, then, how the Gates are created, what effect Lavos had on the Planet, and why the events of the game occurred as they did if the Planet's death is not the reality of the situation. Do so with evidence from the game, please, not unfounded speculation.